Friendly reminder--do a search BEFORE you ask a question
May 16th, 2003, 04:37 AM
#42
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there's nothing hard about responding.
But there may also have been some excellent postings on the same subject a few days before, or even a month before, and it would be shame to miss out on that information as well.
But there may also have been some excellent postings on the same subject a few days before, or even a month before, and it would be shame to miss out on that information as well.
May 16th, 2003, 05:45 AM
#43
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I'm finding this thread fascinating because I've been reading a book by Deborah Tannen, the communications expert. Ms. Tannen suggests that our past histories will affect how we perceive the 'real' meaning about what is said, particularly when what is said is an instruction. Will the instruction be perceived as a desire to help, or interfering criticism? Both, it seems, according to the responses posted here.
Some people, and particularly the person giving the instruction, tend to focus on the literal words used; others tend to focus on context, which is not only how the instruction is given, but who is giving it, or the fact that they gave it at all.
In the house where I grew up, the phrase "friendly reminder" described an order, to be ignored at my peril. Of course julies has no way of knowing my history or that of anyone else's, and since I remembered this, I didn't take offense. But nonetheless, the line "if you are willing to take a few minutes" is very ambiguous. Depending on one's own history, that could be taken to mean "see, using the search function will be easy" or, "if you don't use it, you are lazy, because the effort required is minimal."
In short: there's none funnier than us folks. : - )
Some people, and particularly the person giving the instruction, tend to focus on the literal words used; others tend to focus on context, which is not only how the instruction is given, but who is giving it, or the fact that they gave it at all.
In the house where I grew up, the phrase "friendly reminder" described an order, to be ignored at my peril. Of course julies has no way of knowing my history or that of anyone else's, and since I remembered this, I didn't take offense. But nonetheless, the line "if you are willing to take a few minutes" is very ambiguous. Depending on one's own history, that could be taken to mean "see, using the search function will be easy" or, "if you don't use it, you are lazy, because the effort required is minimal."
In short: there's none funnier than us folks. : - )
May 16th, 2003, 06:36 AM
#44
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Richardab - perhaps you mis-read my post - I said *I can tell* if someone has searched if they put a note in their post. I did not say that EVERYONE should use the same standard.
Maybe if there weren't so many duplicate posts, you wouldn't have so many to pick through.
and if you are looking for revelant infomation - don't you think all those people who took the time to answer in the first place, had something worthwhile to say?
How hard is it really to do a quick search, read through the first 5 or 10 that pop up and see if your question has already been answered in the last few days? Especially on common topics - Where to stay in? What to do in? London VisitorCard? Questions on Airline x? etc.
May 16th, 2003, 06:38 AM
#45
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This thread is hilarious! julies posts an informative, non-threatening, very helpful message and people are jumping down her throat. People are funny. I guess some people are just wound so tight that even a constructive criticism and/or "friendly reminder" is cause for a meltdown!
On one of my very first posts here, I posted something like, "I'm looking for a budget hotel in Rome" or whatever and someone replied with "There's a search function that will pull up a bunch of info. on that very topic . . . blah, blah, blah" Well, this was news to me, I'll tell you. And I did feel kind of stupid once I DID search and found about 20 other posts with almost my exact same header. However, my feeling of stupidity was quickly replaced with a feeling of satisfaction when I found a TON of the kind of Info. I'd been looking for.
My point is, until someone had told me (nicely) A) that there was a search function and B) how to use it, I was really missing out on the main source of wealth on this board. I certainly don't FAULT whomever it was that pointed the search function out to me . . . I THANK them!
Jennie
On one of my very first posts here, I posted something like, "I'm looking for a budget hotel in Rome" or whatever and someone replied with "There's a search function that will pull up a bunch of info. on that very topic . . . blah, blah, blah" Well, this was news to me, I'll tell you. And I did feel kind of stupid once I DID search and found about 20 other posts with almost my exact same header. However, my feeling of stupidity was quickly replaced with a feeling of satisfaction when I found a TON of the kind of Info. I'd been looking for.
My point is, until someone had told me (nicely) A) that there was a search function and B) how to use it, I was really missing out on the main source of wealth on this board. I certainly don't FAULT whomever it was that pointed the search function out to me . . . I THANK them!
Jennie
May 16th, 2003, 06:55 AM
#46
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First of all DEBBIE, I never said I was quoting julies.
Here's the now famous julies' response.
"The reason you got this type of response is because this exact same question was covered extensively within the past 24 hours. If you would have bothered to look you would have found your answer. How can you expect people to take the time to help you out if you are not willing to spend any of your own time looking for an answer?"
Debbie, Jennie - - " . . . if you had bothered to look . . . " sounds sarcastic and accusatory. I took offense to that language, not that I really care. But it seemed a little barbed and infused with bad attitude.
And I don't think there's anything "friendly" about SHOUTING . . . as in the title of this post.
julies, take a chill pill . . . jill.
Here's the now famous julies' response.
"The reason you got this type of response is because this exact same question was covered extensively within the past 24 hours. If you would have bothered to look you would have found your answer. How can you expect people to take the time to help you out if you are not willing to spend any of your own time looking for an answer?"
Debbie, Jennie - - " . . . if you had bothered to look . . . " sounds sarcastic and accusatory. I took offense to that language, not that I really care. But it seemed a little barbed and infused with bad attitude.
And I don't think there's anything "friendly" about SHOUTING . . . as in the title of this post.
julies, take a chill pill . . . jill.
May 16th, 2003, 07:19 AM
#47
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Snoopy:
Sorry, I was unaware that julies has posted such a snippy response on (I'm assuming) another thread. My post was purely going off of what she'd said on this thread. I would like to point out, however, that I made sure to say that "nicely" informing someone of the search feature is the best way of handling this situation. I don't think the quote you attribute to julies can, in any way, be described as nice.
I guess my main point is that julies is not the first person I've seen criticized for suggesting someone do a search. I think informing someone who is obviously a new poster (and, really, what else could they be when they post something about "Paris hotels in the 6th?"
that there is a wealth of info. on this site and then giving that person the tools to find said information is a kindness.
Jennie
Sorry, I was unaware that julies has posted such a snippy response on (I'm assuming) another thread. My post was purely going off of what she'd said on this thread. I would like to point out, however, that I made sure to say that "nicely" informing someone of the search feature is the best way of handling this situation. I don't think the quote you attribute to julies can, in any way, be described as nice.
I guess my main point is that julies is not the first person I've seen criticized for suggesting someone do a search. I think informing someone who is obviously a new poster (and, really, what else could they be when they post something about "Paris hotels in the 6th?"
that there is a wealth of info. on this site and then giving that person the tools to find said information is a kindness.Jennie
May 16th, 2003, 07:29 AM
#48
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Snoopy
I think you may be the one needing a chill pill, if *one* word in the title is too much shouting for you.
One word in caps , is kind of like bolding it , for attention.
TYPING AN ENTIRE TITLE OR POST THAT GOES ON AND ON IS SHOUTING.
And fyi - I just did a search on this page - and the only post that used the phrase " if you had BOTHERED" was you. ( and yes - I put it in CAPS purposely)
Julies initial post used the phrase: "if you are willing to spend a few minutes looking for it."
Not accusatory, but suggesting a little leg-work will probably pay off big.
I think you may be the one needing a chill pill, if *one* word in the title is too much shouting for you.
One word in caps , is kind of like bolding it , for attention.
TYPING AN ENTIRE TITLE OR POST THAT GOES ON AND ON IS SHOUTING.
And fyi - I just did a search on this page - and the only post that used the phrase " if you had BOTHERED" was you. ( and yes - I put it in CAPS purposely)
Julies initial post used the phrase: "if you are willing to spend a few minutes looking for it."
Not accusatory, but suggesting a little leg-work will probably pay off big.
May 16th, 2003, 07:38 AM
#49
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Hey - let's drop this. This board is supposed to help others plan their trip....not to argue. I think we all now know to use the search first. If a newcomer comes on board, maybe we can help them and give the name of the thread with the info they are looking for.
May 16th, 2003, 08:09 AM
#51
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Debbie
You misunderstand. Snoopy is quoting a reply Julies posted to ANOTHER thread, not in one.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...p;tid=34419294
I agree that a polite post advising someone who may not be aware that there is a wealth of information that answers their question is likely to be helpful more times than not.
A rude post with similar content just generates bad feeling.
You misunderstand. Snoopy is quoting a reply Julies posted to ANOTHER thread, not in one.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...p;tid=34419294
I agree that a polite post advising someone who may not be aware that there is a wealth of information that answers their question is likely to be helpful more times than not.
A rude post with similar content just generates bad feeling.
May 16th, 2003, 08:24 AM
#53
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Actually - after reading the way richardab was responding to the responses he had gotten, " I know how to use the friggin search feature " ==> I just want you all to re-type it, I can understand the 'bothered' comment.
2 people had just finished politely letting him know that a search would provide useful info, and he refused to help himself, he wanted (and obviously still wants) the rest of us to do all the work for him.
Even when people explained why the search would be useful ( '"Must See" sights have not changed drastically in Vienna for the last 5 years, although I would add the Leopold collection. There is nothing wrong with old posts when it comes to this subject. It would be different if you asked about accomodations.'
-- instead of doing just that, richardab inserts his own NASTY reply cutting down Americans. ( as if he knows the nationality of everyone who doesn't agree with him)
Don't give Julies a hard time on this until you read all of his abrasive remarks in the first post - I personally don't think she was out of line.
2 people had just finished politely letting him know that a search would provide useful info, and he refused to help himself, he wanted (and obviously still wants) the rest of us to do all the work for him.
Even when people explained why the search would be useful ( '"Must See" sights have not changed drastically in Vienna for the last 5 years, although I would add the Leopold collection. There is nothing wrong with old posts when it comes to this subject. It would be different if you asked about accomodations.'
-- instead of doing just that, richardab inserts his own NASTY reply cutting down Americans. ( as if he knows the nationality of everyone who doesn't agree with him)
Don't give Julies a hard time on this until you read all of his abrasive remarks in the first post - I personally don't think she was out of line.
May 16th, 2003, 08:27 AM
#54
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Debbie
I am not giving Julies a hard time - and didn't comment on her post at all. I was merely pointing out to you that Snoopy's response above was referring to a comment she made elsewhere, not here, since you didn't seem to realise that.
I actually agree with your position in terms of being able to see why Julies did make the post in the way she did in that particular situation.
I am not giving Julies a hard time - and didn't comment on her post at all. I was merely pointing out to you that Snoopy's response above was referring to a comment she made elsewhere, not here, since you didn't seem to realise that.
I actually agree with your position in terms of being able to see why Julies did make the post in the way she did in that particular situation.
May 16th, 2003, 08:35 AM
#55
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I hate to think what the response would have been here if julies had not called this a "Friendly" reminder! Some folks seem to be taking this all waaay too personally, as if they were named as being stupid.
Why can not julies or anyone else, offer advice on here without being asked first? She has posted here long enough to have something to offer, and there is nothing offensive about this post, unless you just feel guilty about maybe you were the one that did no research first?
If someone is handing out Chill Pills, I suggest most people should hold out their hands and get theirs!
Why can not julies or anyone else, offer advice on here without being asked first? She has posted here long enough to have something to offer, and there is nothing offensive about this post, unless you just feel guilty about maybe you were the one that did no research first?
If someone is handing out Chill Pills, I suggest most people should hold out their hands and get theirs!
May 16th, 2003, 09:22 AM
#57
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Kavey -
I should have been more specific, I did not think you were giving her a hard time, but instead was intending that comment towards others (snoopy,richardab etc) on this post.
I appreciated your linking in the original post - it cleared a lot up for me.
I should have been more specific, I did not think you were giving her a hard time, but instead was intending that comment towards others (snoopy,richardab etc) on this post.
I appreciated your linking in the original post - it cleared a lot up for me.
May 16th, 2003, 09:31 AM
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I am enjoying the responses back and forth on this one. I do think Jules was offering some gentle advice and others did not perceive it that way. When I first starting reading and posting here (and I am not as prolific a poster as many others), I know I did not know what a wealth of information I could find with the Search feature. I also know that sometimes now I still can't get the darned thing to work the way I want.
Having said that, I do understand that even if people do search on a oft-covered topic that they may still pose the question. Why? New people come to Fodor's for the first time all the time and they may be able to offer their own perspective or suggestions that have not been mentioned in the past.
So I do think the Search function is a good starting point, but sometimes asking the question anyway is just fine.
Having said that, I do understand that even if people do search on a oft-covered topic that they may still pose the question. Why? New people come to Fodor's for the first time all the time and they may be able to offer their own perspective or suggestions that have not been mentioned in the past.
So I do think the Search function is a good starting point, but sometimes asking the question anyway is just fine.
May 16th, 2003, 10:29 AM
#60
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I actually got a bunch of good replies on the Vienna thread I posted that seemed to cause so much trouble. Especially from Uncle Sam who seems like he is a ***nice guy***.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...p;tid=34419294
And in case any of you care, and I am sure you don't, I did do a search before I posted that message and i just wanted my own *personal* post. I am sorry but I am a selfish person and just hate used worn out threads (like old clothes).
Also, truthfully, I never look at the dates and sometimes some of these threads can be pretty old. Who knows, maybe someday the French will start being nice to Americans in jogging suits and sneakers or Rome's Hotel Due Torri may change management and turn into flea bag hotel for homeless Cardinals, or maybe McDonalds in London will start serving the best Indian food in the city.
You never know!
So does anyone want to meet in Vienna for a piece of Sacher Torte and a coffee?
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...p;tid=34419294
And in case any of you care, and I am sure you don't, I did do a search before I posted that message and i just wanted my own *personal* post. I am sorry but I am a selfish person and just hate used worn out threads (like old clothes).
Also, truthfully, I never look at the dates and sometimes some of these threads can be pretty old. Who knows, maybe someday the French will start being nice to Americans in jogging suits and sneakers or Rome's Hotel Due Torri may change management and turn into flea bag hotel for homeless Cardinals, or maybe McDonalds in London will start serving the best Indian food in the city.
You never know!
So does anyone want to meet in Vienna for a piece of Sacher Torte and a coffee?
