Fodor’s is now Anti-Gay
May 17th, 2008, 11:55 AM
#81
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Hey what is the problem covering in a guide book a brief list of restaurants, hotels and cafes that a lot of gays frequent? Or mention gay events that annually take place in a given city? What is the big deal? I cannot get over some of the ignorant comments on this thread!
The problem is that the title could have been phrased differently. However, it certainly brought out some posters' true colours.
The problem is that the title could have been phrased differently. However, it certainly brought out some posters' true colours.
May 17th, 2008, 12:06 PM
#82
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Zeus, you're only making a fool of yourself. Tom admitted that his title was intended to stir the pot, so give him credit for that. And to equate a gay bar with a hooker or nudie bar? You're way off the mark there.
Not only singles looking for sex go to gay bars, fyi. And not everyone takes cabs, and not everyone is willing to put their evening's entertainment into the hand of a random cabbie. Perhaps you are, but I'm not.
Your comments about the usual tourist sights make no sense. Neither Tom nor anyone else claimed that he sees these things through gay eyes, so what are you talking about?
And victimization? The title implies a sort of victimization, and Tom backed off that, so maybe you need to move on as well. Unless you're having too good a time on your soapbox getting some things that have nothing to do with this thread off your chest.
Not only singles looking for sex go to gay bars, fyi. And not everyone takes cabs, and not everyone is willing to put their evening's entertainment into the hand of a random cabbie. Perhaps you are, but I'm not.
Your comments about the usual tourist sights make no sense. Neither Tom nor anyone else claimed that he sees these things through gay eyes, so what are you talking about?
And victimization? The title implies a sort of victimization, and Tom backed off that, so maybe you need to move on as well. Unless you're having too good a time on your soapbox getting some things that have nothing to do with this thread off your chest.
May 17th, 2008, 12:11 PM
#83
How about those of us with big noses and bald heads? Please feel sorry for us and change the universe to accomodate us
Zeus, I'm so sorry you are bald and have big nose but remember, we all have some physical thing or two or three about ourselves we don't like.
Zeus, I'm so sorry you are bald and have big nose but remember, we all have some physical thing or two or three about ourselves we don't like.
May 17th, 2008, 12:25 PM
#84
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Or worse, cigalechanta, some physical thing that doesn't work right. (In my case, my voice.) I don't buy guidebooks, but if I did, I would not look for material in one that directed me to "Quiet spots where you might be heard.)
Hi, M, you've been missed.
BC
Hi, M, you've been missed.
BC
May 17th, 2008, 12:33 PM
#86
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My un-needed two cents, but I'm giving them anyway:
If Fodor's wants to get rid of sub-group specialties, figuring people will look on the web, I have no problem with that. I like Irish pubs, for example, in any country, but I don't expect them to always list an Irish pub for me.
That being said, I think it's irresponsible to exclude ANY information about G/L issues in a country, since politically-correct lip-service be damned, we all know there are countries, cities, towns and remote backwaters where gays are openly welcomed, slightly tolerated, vilified, and in danger. As a woman that did all of my early traveling alone, I am always grateful for the politically incorrect "Prepare to have your ass pinched" or "Single women, don't go here" warnings. Fodor's doesn't need to cater to anyone's lifestyle choices, but they do have a responsibility to give potential victims a heads-up. And that goes for blacks and Jews too.
If Fodor's wants to get rid of sub-group specialties, figuring people will look on the web, I have no problem with that. I like Irish pubs, for example, in any country, but I don't expect them to always list an Irish pub for me.
That being said, I think it's irresponsible to exclude ANY information about G/L issues in a country, since politically-correct lip-service be damned, we all know there are countries, cities, towns and remote backwaters where gays are openly welcomed, slightly tolerated, vilified, and in danger. As a woman that did all of my early traveling alone, I am always grateful for the politically incorrect "Prepare to have your ass pinched" or "Single women, don't go here" warnings. Fodor's doesn't need to cater to anyone's lifestyle choices, but they do have a responsibility to give potential victims a heads-up. And that goes for blacks and Jews too.
May 17th, 2008, 12:35 PM
#88
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Apres, I think that Facebook has changed its policy after the NYT article -- though I'm not 100% sure. Anyway, to be 100% sure, the only way is to control the info you put out about yourself on the net in the first place. Which is why I now tell people who contact me on Facebook that I no longer accept friend requests. Personally I find that it's a great social networking tool, and I've had long lost friends contact me. But there's a limit to privacy for me -- just like there's a limit to privacy on Fodor's as well.
I see yk's point, but as I said, perhaps this doesn't make Fodor's anti-gay. But it does seem like a foolish decision on their part.
From the business point of view, I don't find the note on children or the physically challenged (or insert one of your favorite groups here -- perhaps Asians or some other ethnic groups here) that convincing. Children don't have disposable income to travel. But you could argue that their parents may be interested in such a section. However, parents with young kids are probably tied up at home anyway.
I think most people accept that gays and lesbians have more disposable incomes to travel. And actually many cities have taken up on this theme to attract gays and lesbians to visit. And there are tour groups that specifically cater to these groups (have you heard of a tour group solely for parents with children or for the physically challenged -- I'd assume not!).
For Fodor's to back pedal, well, it's a bit strange, and as I said, it doesn't make business sense.
Perhaps there's a flip side of this coin as well. Maybe Fodor's feels the need to sanitize their guidebooks so that even more "conservative" readers will buy them. It's too bad we won't really know what went into the decision making process in the first place.
It's hard to gauge social views of Fodor's readers -- but it's also hard for me to imagine that many will be offended by the inclusion of material of relevance to gays and lesbians. I mean, I was just reading on NYT that there's been a gay kiss (and actually more than one) in the daytime soap "As the World Turns," and California has just overturned its ban on gay marriage. So you would think that in general people are becoming more accepting and liberal.
I see yk's point, but as I said, perhaps this doesn't make Fodor's anti-gay. But it does seem like a foolish decision on their part.
From the business point of view, I don't find the note on children or the physically challenged (or insert one of your favorite groups here -- perhaps Asians or some other ethnic groups here) that convincing. Children don't have disposable income to travel. But you could argue that their parents may be interested in such a section. However, parents with young kids are probably tied up at home anyway.
I think most people accept that gays and lesbians have more disposable incomes to travel. And actually many cities have taken up on this theme to attract gays and lesbians to visit. And there are tour groups that specifically cater to these groups (have you heard of a tour group solely for parents with children or for the physically challenged -- I'd assume not!).
For Fodor's to back pedal, well, it's a bit strange, and as I said, it doesn't make business sense.
Perhaps there's a flip side of this coin as well. Maybe Fodor's feels the need to sanitize their guidebooks so that even more "conservative" readers will buy them. It's too bad we won't really know what went into the decision making process in the first place.
It's hard to gauge social views of Fodor's readers -- but it's also hard for me to imagine that many will be offended by the inclusion of material of relevance to gays and lesbians. I mean, I was just reading on NYT that there's been a gay kiss (and actually more than one) in the daytime soap "As the World Turns," and California has just overturned its ban on gay marriage. So you would think that in general people are becoming more accepting and liberal.
May 17th, 2008, 05:21 PM
#91
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"If you're a gay dude with a companion, what can a guidebook tell you?"
What kind of stupid question is that? Perhaps the same thing that a guidebook can tell a straight couple where nice bars or restaurants are. Does the writer of that stupid comment think that gay establishments are all dark back sex rooms or something?
What kind of stupid question is that? Perhaps the same thing that a guidebook can tell a straight couple where nice bars or restaurants are. Does the writer of that stupid comment think that gay establishments are all dark back sex rooms or something?
May 17th, 2008, 05:53 PM
#92
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Ooops. Sorry I got carried away. I realize there are no stupid questions.
But frankly if there were, this one would be at the top of the list. The basic premise of the question just threw me so much I'm afraid I lost control.
But frankly if there were, this one would be at the top of the list. The basic premise of the question just threw me so much I'm afraid I lost control.
May 17th, 2008, 06:17 PM
#93
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(have you heard of a tour group solely for parents with children or for the physically challenged -- I'd assume not!)
http://tours.ricksteves.com/tours08/...tegory_ID/190/
http://tours.ricksteves.com/tours08/...tegory_ID/190/
May 17th, 2008, 07:16 PM
#94
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A few years ago I spent some time in Amsterdam with a gay friend.
He did not look for gay friendly places in my Fodor's - he just walked into a gay bar, started talking to a few people and got all the info. he was looking for.
He did not look for gay friendly places in my Fodor's - he just walked into a gay bar, started talking to a few people and got all the info. he was looking for.
May 17th, 2008, 07:59 PM
#95
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Now this should included in all Fodor's guides:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w8Oed7TD60
Thingorjus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w8Oed7TD60
Thingorjus
May 17th, 2008, 08:17 PM
#98
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Thanks Nessa. I guess I was assuming children as in small children. If I read the Rick Steves link right, the children must be at least 8 years old.
Still I must admit that even that surprised me, but I suppose I shouldn't have been!
Still I must admit that even that surprised me, but I suppose I shouldn't have been!
May 17th, 2008, 08:30 PM
#99
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That WAS hilarious, especially Pepe (oh my god my glasses!)Thanks for posting that, I needed a good laugh.
Perhaps the problem is Fodors is suffering from this condition?:
http://tinyurl.com/66ucoq
Perhaps the problem is Fodors is suffering from this condition?:
http://tinyurl.com/66ucoq
May 17th, 2008, 08:55 PM
#100
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Oh good grief.
To counteract that horrid bile, here's a classic from the funny, talented, and gorgeous Gavin Crawford:
http://tinyurl.com/66lntj
To counteract that horrid bile, here's a classic from the funny, talented, and gorgeous Gavin Crawford:
http://tinyurl.com/66lntj
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