pharmboy

I am traveling on business to Munich next June and will be taking my teenage son. This will be our first time in Europe. We have approx. 11 days. I was planning on train travel with an itinerary to include Garmish-P and Fussen, Salzburg, Vienna, Budapest, and Prague, then back to Munich. I have been told this might be a bit aggressive for the time allotted and that the locations are not the best choices for first time travelers in Europe. Is my itinerary a good choice for our first visit or do you have better options?

JeanneB

It really depends on what you and your son want to see/do in those 11 days. Are you particularly interested in those locations? If it were me---and my first trip---I would choose Paris or Rome.

There's a Condor flight from Munich to Rome (58 euros, round trip, June 13/22, for example). See Rome, Florence, Venice and return from Rome.

Or, if you go to kayak.com, search for Munich to Paris. Air France has several round trip flights in the $130 range (that's dollars).

JeanneB

Out of curiosity, I checked kayak for Italy using the same dates. You could fly Munich-Rome and return to Munich from Bologna BLQ (which is more efficient than going back to Rome).

Lufthansa flight is $111 round trip.

Mr_Dreamer

We're flying Munich to Paris in May on Air France for $277.00 total round trip for two.

walkinaround

i agree that it is far too aggressive. the locations are fine, it's just that there are too many of them to enjoy. train travel gets old very quickly. many non-europeans romanticise it but it's much better actually doing and seeing things rather than sitting on a train looking out a window. just to give you an idea (you can choose the most appropriate cities) munich - salsburg - vienna - munich is more the kind of fit for an 11 day train trip. even then, the amount of time on the train will not be insignificant.

obviously open jaw is the best option if you can do it.

ben_haines

This is crowded. Of course you want to get good value from your trip, but like others I suggest you cut down to perhaps three places, in order to know them a bit more deeply. Your taste seems to be for old cities, so you might drop Garmisch-Parteikirchen and Fussen. You will see some mountains as you travel. That leaves three cities out of Salzburg, Vienna, Budapest, Prague, and Munich. If cost matters for you I can say the cheapest three are Budapest, Prague, and Salzburg. If age of the cityscape then the oldest are Prague and Vienna. For recitals and concerts the busiest are Budapest and Prague, but of course you can ask Google for Budapest concert events and so ion, and choose from those pages. The best arts galleries are in Vienna, Budapest and Prague. I am afraid I do not know the best for modern art and for jazz. Best coffee and cakes in Vienna, Salzburg, and Munich. Best national meat dishes, to my mind, are in Budapest and Munich: Prague has too much breadey dumpling.

Please write if I can help further.

Ben hHines, London
[email protected]

pharmboy

Thanks for the help. I do want to stay in the area. We both enjoy history and love the gothic medieval nature of C. Europe. It sounds like getting as much from one area as possible is a better plan. I do want to keep my 18 yr old involved.

shandy

I agree with the others that I think three separate destinations is sufficient for 11 days or you will spend all your time travelling.

Personally I would consider G-P/Fussen area with two of your desired cities. Rather than city, city and city I think it is nice to have the contrast of the countryside/small villages with the cities.

I don't think you would find any of the cities you are considering as "hard" for first time travellers in Europe. They are all extremely tourist orientated and language, hotels etc won't be a problem. My choice would be more influenced by how much time and effort is required to get to them.

Rome and Paris are wonderful but so are all the places you are considering. There is no correct order in which to discover Europe so go to the places which take your fancy.

nytraveler

There is nothing wrong with any of your selections for a first time trip to europe - they are easily doable and have strong tourist infrastructures. Prage and Budapest in particular are esp interesting. The problem is that you really can't begin to do all of them in just 11 days.

Even assuming you have 11 full days on the ground (not counting arrival and departure days) you're allowing less than 1 day per city - and will spend the bulk of your time traveling between one place and another - rather than seeing or doing anything.

For instance - for Vienna, Budapes or Prague I would allow no less than 4 nights each (3 days in the town). So - seeing just 2 of these from Munich will take up yout entire time.

Assume you stay in Munich and do Garmish and Fussen as day trips by car I would pick just one other city to see - Prague by choice.

And - if you haven't bought your plane tickets yet I would not do in and out of Munich but use an open jaws ticket to avoid backtracking by doing into Munich and out of whatever other city you pick.

pharmboy

Great suggestions. Open Jaw is not an option, I have to start and return in Munich. I have 11 full days of vacation. We will have a couple of nights in Munich prior to the official vacation. What about the following schedule:

Munich
Munich/Dachau
Fussen
Salzburg
Salzburg
Salz/Cesky Krumlov
Cesky Krumlov/Prague
Prague
Prague/Kutna Hora
Prague
Prague to Munich

Better? Also, any particular suggestions for activity with an 18 year old?

nytraveler

Don;t know gender or interests of 18 year old - but unless they have somethig specific in mind asume they will want to see basic sights you will.

You may suggest that the 18 year old get a student type guidebook so they'll have info on local nightlife for young people - which I assume will be different from what the parents will be doing.

Our last trip we did some evenings with my stepdaughters (17 and 20) - ballet and a couple of dinners - but then they went out afterward - and a couple of nights they did cafes/clubs for young people just on their own.

saltymuffin

Your itinerary is still abit crowded. I would drop Cesky Krumlov, it is difficult by train. Also drop the day trip to Kutna Hora and add another day in Munich.

1. Munich - is this the day you arrive?
2. Munich
3. Munich and Dachau
4. Day trip to Fussen
5. To Salzburg
6. Salzburg
7. Salzburg
8. to Prague
9. Prague
10. Prague
11. Back to Munich (this is at least a 6 hour train ride)
12. fly home

ben_haines

I agree that you should still cut a visit, but think Cesky Krumlov not bad by train (and beautiful). It is 40- minutes by bus from Ceske Budejovice (CB) where the bus station is across the road from the railway station. So you can go Salzburg, Linz, CB, CK, and next day CK, CB, Prague. Using the Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable I see that useful trains are these
Salzburg, 0447, sleepers and couchettes, Ceske Budejovice 0837, bus, Cesky Krumlov about 0940. The supplement for a couchette is 20 euros
Salzburg 0910, buffet car, Linz 1028 to 1035, Summerau 1151 to 1205, Ceske Budejovice 1329, bus, Cesky Krumlov about 1440
Salzburg 1134, restaurant car, Linz 1247 to 1308, Ceske Budejovice 1549, bus, Cesky Krumlov about 1640
Salzburg 1534, restaurant car, Linz 1647 to 1654, , Ceske Budejovice 1854 , bus, Cesky Krumlov about 1940
Cesky Krumlov about 0800, bus, Ceske Budejovice about 0840 to 0854, Prague main station 1140
Cesky Krumlov about 0900, bus, Ceske Budejovice about 0940 to 0954, Prague main station 1240
Cesky Krumlov about 1100, bus, Ceske Budejovice about 1140 to 1154, Prague main station 1440
Cesky Krumlov about 1800, bus, Ceske Budejovice about 1840 to 1905, restaurant car, Prague main station 2140

You cut hours of travel and a hotel bill if you pay 50 euros supplement for a berth in a two or three berth second class sleeper from Prague Holesovice station at 2019 to Munich at 0621. Of course you will need to plan for your lssdt afternoon and evening, with no hotel room.

In Prague main station pickpockets work in gangs of three, so you should walk though the station with your tickets in a front pocket, and all other valuables deep inside a heavy bag, to come out when the train leaves.

Ben Haines, London

pharmboy

Thank you for the great advice! Ben, I agree that Cesky Krumlov is very doable. I like the idea of staying there a night and then going to Prague the next day. I have also checked with some of the tour buses that do day trips there, and they will reserve a seat on the bus back to Prague, for a fee. This will save on train time. (3 hours verses 4 1/2). My 18 year old is a boy, and has interest in history, however, I want to avoid just walking around and visiting museums for ten days. I like the idea of a student pass and will be sure to do that in every city. Are there activities available in Prague for the active young adult?

ben_haines

For gothic buildings among Salzburg, Vienna, Budapest, Prague, or Munich I select Vienna, Budapest and Prague. For an 18 year old please see
In Vienna the Schonbrunn, the big wheel (perhaps after seeing the video of the Third Man, and perhaps followed with a guided tour of the sewers), and the treasure chamber.
In Budapest the castle, with gothic cellars, the Fishermen’s bastion, the tomb of the last Turkish ruler, the coffee houses, the oldest metro line, the millennium exhibition space, the railway history museum, and the open air show of Socialist sculpture (please let him see it on line before he decides whether to go)
In Prague the crowds of the Charles Bridge and the whole centre, if he understands it the Bethlehem chapel, and for a morning trip by bus leaving Florenc at nine the Terezin concentration camp, including children

You can book a seat on a bus from CK to Prague the day before, t the bus station, and need not find an expensive tour bus.

All four cities, and Munich, have night life for young people, though he may be not allowed to drink unaccompanied. Please search for In Your pocket, and the city’s name, and I think for Time Out, and the city’s name. I think that Salzburg is for the middle aged.

Ben Haines

lucy_d

Some suggestions for an 18 year old boy:

Salzburg: Hohensalzburg Fortress tour and perhaps a meal there.

Budapest: The Musuem of Terror located on Andrassy is quite interesting and well done. The open air Statue Park that was mentioned would be interesting, too, but it could perhaps eat up a lot of time due to its location. You can research times and bus schedules online.

Prague: I always recommend a day trip to Terezin, but depending on your son's interests and your amount of time in Prague, you may find that it, too, will take up a lot of the day.

Vienna: One night, you could take your son to one of the many Heuringen at Grinzing. That would be fun for the two of you to do together.

The DK travel guides for these cities would be helpful for your son to look over for ideas and then do internet research and ask questions on this board.

All the cities you have selected are rich in history and culture and offer so much to do and see. You will have a wonderful time whatever you decide.

Fidel

Chiming in with Mr. Haines, agree Salzburg is very pleasant but a little dowdy, Budapest is spectacular, and you'll kick yourself if you don't go to CK. Really, Vienna/Prague/Budapest is a sublime trio.

kenav

HI - Have you thought about an open-jaw ticket? Fly into one city and leave from another? It might be a bit morie expensive but then you wouldn't have to spend an extra day (and money) getting back to Munich. You could spend that day with more exploration and less schlepping and travel.

ben_haines

Terezin was the last place in Hitler’s Europe where Jews could make their own music, before they were trucked away and gassed.

There is no need for an open jaw ticket if you choose for your last stay a place that is a night away by sleeping car train from your departure airport.

Ben Haines

RufusTFirefly

Open jaw is sometimes no more expensive than a regular round trip fare. It just depends on the cities.

We used open jaw on our Prague/Berlin trip last month. At the time that we made our reservations, the open jaw cost was actually slightly less than round trips to either city. I also explored flying to Munich or Frankfurt--but these were more expensive once travel costs to/from Prague and Berlin were added in.

For the open jaw, I first checked flying from the Baltimore/D.C. area to Berlin, and then flying home from Prague. This was very expensive. Then I tried flying Balt/DC to Prague and then home from Berlin, and this was a lot less expensive.