Luniana

Hi everyone,

I'm currently trying to plan my first ever trip to Europe. I'm thinking of spending between 21-25 days across Paris, Italy and Athens and I have no idea where to start.

I have a rough itinerary planned:
5 Days in Paris- This includes Disneyland and a day trip to Versailles. I wanted to fit a day trip to London but I dont think this is achievable without being too rushed around on the rest of my days in Paris..
4 Days in Venice- Including a day trip to Verona
3 Days in Florence- Including a day trip to Pisa
6 Days in Rome- Including a day trip to Pompeii/Naples
5 Days in Athens- Including day trips to Heraklion, Delphi and Corinth/Mycenae
+ one day either side of the trip for traveling to/from home.

Are there any cities where you would recommend spending a longer or shorter stay?

My main concern is getting to/from each of the cities. I want to spend as little time travelling between each destination and more time exploring.

Is it cheaper/more convenient to fly or train from Paris --> Venice? I'm thinking of flying from Rome to Athens and Athens to Heraklion rather than taking a ferry (as my partner gets sea sick).

As for travelling domestically within Italy, is there a pass that gives me unlimited travel within the cities AS WELL as between the cities? I don't want to be limited by being only able to travel on consecutive days or only 10 days total. Is there such thing as a monthly/fortnightly unlimited travel pass?

My trip is currently being planned for the end of April/start of May 2015. I've been trying to compare prices on travel but I've noticed that a lot of train tickets arent available yet (that far in advance). Roughly how many months beforehand do travel tickets become available to book?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!

Kathie

I'd recommend more time in Paris. And I can't imagine why you'd waste some of your precious time there at Euro-Disney. We recently spent 10 days in Paris and felt we didn't have the time for a day trip to Versailles. We are all different, but Paris is so glorious I couldn't spare time for a trip outside the city.

Your Italy time sounds well-planned. Athens, it appears you will spend most of your time not in Athens. You might consider cutting out Athens entirely and devoting that time to Paris.

HappyTrvlr

I wouldn't do a day trip to Heraklion from Athens or go to Disneyland crom Paris.

jan47ete

Cut Greece--too far away from the rest and use in London or

Add one more day to Paris and cut Disney

1 or 2 more days in Florence

rome2rio.com to plot trip.

check out cheap European airlines but using train gets you from city center to city center although sometimes air is cheaper.

eurorail or raildude.com for trains so you can get a sense of timetables. Long distance trains usually only are available 120 days out.

Gretchen

Exactly what Kathy said about Versailles, even with 10 days in Paris. Disney? Please. I know it is your trip, but.....

nytraveler

Agree that you are spreading yourself too thin - and after you take out the time to get from one place to another you just won't have that much time anyplace.

Lay out the trip day by day - listing the travel days (from Paris to Venice) as a travel day - not as a day in either place. Within Italy you need to allow at least 1/2 a day to get between cities. And no - there is no pass in Italy that will help you. When you do that you'll see how little time you have anyplace.

IMHO you need at least 4 full days (5 nights) in Paris to see much of anything - with Versailles on top if you want. Don;t get Paris Disney and would not waste the time - even with a child.

You need individual train tickets from Venice to Florence and Florence to Rome. And no tickets between cities hae nothing to do with travel within cities. For those you can get passes - for instance you can get a one or several day vaporetto (bus boat) pass for Venice.

Florence the historic center is very small and you can just walk around. Also Rome the historic center is not that large and you can also do it mostly by foot. Intercity trains for the day trips are each individual tickets.

Masterphil

imo...4 days in Venice is too much, 6 days in Rome too much.

my first trip to Europe was London, Paris, Le train bleu (overnight) to Nice, overnight to Rome, Florence, Venice, Luzern, Munich, Salzburg home from Frankfurt.

Cut stays in Rome and Florence short (Rome too crowded, Florence just OK). 2 days in Venice was plenty (small place gets redundant after 2 days)

Whatever you choose, have a great time!

i would drop Greece and add London and Grindelwald / Eiger area Switzerland (my most beautiful place on earth)

janisj

OK -- I may be the only one posting yet who has actually been to DL Paris. I would not advise anyone to not go there . . . folks either 'get' DL or don't. Those who love DL will want to see DL Paris. Those who don't 'get it' really shouldn't advise for or against (just like someone who has never camped can't understand why someone would want to camp out)

BUT having said that I'd never <B>EVER</B> go to DL Paris if I only had 5 days for the city. and <u>especially</u> not w/ just 5 days when one is a jet lagged fog.

IF you can manage 7-10 days in Paris . . . then and ONLY then would I recommend spending a day at DL. W/ just 7 days you'd need to decide between DL and Versailles. If you have 8 or 9 days then sure - you can fit in both DL and Versailles.

Otherwise -- nope.

sandralist

Check into the possibility of flying from either Pisa or Florence or Naples to Greece. It might be possible, for instance, to go to Pompei in the morning, stow your luggage at the excavation site, and then take a taxi at the end of the day to the airport and catch a flight to Greece. Ditto seeing the sights in Pisa and flying out of there. You might even check into the same for Verona. Sometimes there are useful flights; sometimes not. Venice is not optimal because it is time consuming to get to the airport.

You should look at the website Man in Seat 61 to learn how to take advantage of discount train fares in Italy.

For the time of year you are going, I think Greece is a great destination, and the combo of Paris, Italy and Greece is quite an experience of Europe. Rather than watch people here argue about whether you should spend more or less time in Venice or Rome or Paris, use guidebooks to make a list of what specific attractions are drawing you to each destination, and then figure out how much time it takes to appreciate them, and how much time you have left over. If you need 6 days in Rome, you should do that. If you don't need more days in Paris, don't stay in that expensive city if your time would be more happily spent elsewhere.

No matter how many times people travel, they usually come home thinking they would have liked one day more or less here or there. Because Greece is probably the hardest to get to of all the places on your itinerary, make sure you give yourself enough time to do everything you want to do there because it will be harder to go back.

PetrosB3

Here is another Itinerary:

London: 4 days
Paris: 5 days
Venice: 3 days
Florence: 2 days
Rome: 4 days
Athens: 4 days

22 days in total.
I highly recommend to travel only by plane from a country to another, time in Europe is precious. When in Italy travel by train.

-In London don't do any day trip, concentrate in the city itself.
-In Paris a day trip to Versailles is highly recommended, Disneyland is a bit childish and you have the same in USA, don't lose your time and stay in Paris instead, it has so many things to do and see.
-In Venice don't do any day trips, the city itself is magnificent, and Verona is nothing special, the house of Juliet is just a bad tourist trap.
-In Florence stay 2 full days in the city and make sure to do a Tuscany themed day trip to Siena, Pisa is one of the most overrated and touristy places on earth, it would be a huge mistake to choose Pisa instead of Siena, there is no comparison between them.
-In Rome be sure to spend 3 full days in the city, and make a day trip in Naples and Pompei, be sure to eat pizza in Naples, in Da Michele specifically.
-In Athens be sure to stay 3 days in the city, it has some of the most important landmarks and museums in the World, but be sure to make a day trip. Now Athens as a city has a huge variety of day trips to choose from, probably the day trip capital of Europe (and Heraklion is -not- a day trip by any mean). You can make a day trip in the Ancient Oracle of Delphi, or a day trip in Ancient Olympia, or a day trip in the old town of Nauplion, or a day trip to the island of Hydra, or a day trip to the island of Spetses, or a day trip to the island of Aegina, or a day trip in Ancient Mycenae. These are the top day trips, there are more but since you are a first timer, I wrote you only the best.

sandralist

Hi again,

I got curious and checked and there are currently non-stop flights from Verona to Heraklion (and back again!) so you might want to see if that would be an option for you in your time frame.

Also, you can get some really bad advice on the internet from people who spent a few hours in a city and headed right for the most corny touristy place and then left, and now advise you that the city is "nothing special." The Romeo & Juliet stuff in Verona is indeed all tourist trap, but the fact is that Verona is architecturally one of the prettiest cities in Northern Italy (and much of Europe), and its various piazza are each marvelous in their own way. It is a great cafe and wine town with a charming situation on the Adige river. The monuments of Pisa are actually some of the best in the world and not overrated in the slightest. Many people go to Pisa and spent their entire time their complaining about the proliferation of t-shirt vendors nearby and never actually look at the cathedral, its bell tower and the rest of the Renaissance city. They leave in 45 minutes and tell you they are an expert.

Also, you have to realize that when someone tells you that you should do a "Tuscany-themed day trip from Florence" that apparently they have no idea that Florence is IN Tuscany. Florence is the capital of Tuscany. How seriously can you take someone's advice about how to spend your precious and costly time in Europe if they don't know something that basic.

Finally, I ate Da Michele in Naples (wow! Just like Julia Roberts) and thought it was one of the lesser pizzas of Naples. I wouldn't recommend it to anybody.

I am sure you appreciate hearing everybody's point of view, but what is overrated in gathering advice from internet posters about what to see and not to see. You have already started out with a the idea of following your own bliss and bucking a lot of conventional "wisdom", which is actually based on ignorance, including advice from people who have never been to some of the places they are telling you not to see or see. Stick to your strategy. It is not unintelligent.

PetrosB3

@sandralist, I would prefer to call me by my name instead of "someone" or "somebody" or "some people" it's Petros by the way, thank you.

First of all, it's my opinion and you have to respect it. I find your advice by my point of view "really bad" but I respect it. And I am not that kind of touristy tourist as you claim, I assure you about that.

And now to the point. What makes you think that this person will stay more than a couple of hours in Verona? Me myself stayed 4 hours in Verona including lunch and it was more than enough. I've seen some churches, the bridges, la casa di Giulietta, the Arena and strolled the lanes of the city. It has a character but it didn't impressed me as much as other Italian cities I've visited, it's dull.
Pisa is not an impressive city. Yes the Piazza dei Miracoli is a beautiful place, but again the rest of the city is an average Italian city you find throughout Italy. It's a fact. And you don't have to be an "expert" to realise it, even though I never claimed such a title.
A "Tuscany-themed day trip from Florence" would only be feasible only if Florence would be placed IN Tuscany, am I wrong? And since Siena is also situated in Tuscany, it would be a bit difficult NOT to do a "Tuscany-themed day trip", since you travel inside Tuscany throughout. But how seriously can you take someone's advice about how to spend your precious and costly time in Europe if they don't know something that basic. Am I right?
And finally, I ate in Da Michele in Naples long before Julia Roberts (wow!), and since I have been more than 10 times in Naples, as my main destination, I think I am the one who will say if Da Michels has a good pizza, and I won't care if "anyone" does not recommend it. I think I am clear enough.

ekc

"Cut stays in Rome and Florence short (Rome too crowded, Florence just OK). 2 days in Venice was plenty (small place gets redundant after 2 days)"

I could not disagree more. On two separate trips I have spent 3 days each time in Venice and still have not seen everything on my list, including many of the outer islands. And the OP wants to include a day trip to Verona.

Rome is crowded if you just stay in the major sites, but it is a large city with tons to see. Especially if you want to include a day trip to Pompeii/Naples, I think 5 days is perfectly reasonable. Especially considering part of the first day will be lost getting from Florence to Rome.

3 days in Florence is really only 2.5 days, once you consider the transportation from Venice to Florence (pack, check out of hotel, get to train station, get tickets/find train, train ride, get from train station to hotel, check in, drop bags in room, freshen up, now it's time for lunch). So if you take a day trip to Pisa, that is really only 1.5 days in Florence. How could you possibly cut that any shorter and actually enjoy Florence?

One way to maximize your time in Florence is to see Pisa enroute from Venice. There is a left-luggage facility in Pisa, where you can store your luggage when visiting the tower, etc.

Personally, I think the trip overall looks good. Just keep in mind the time you lose traveling between cities.

You can buy your train ticks for the Italy portion of your trip on www.trenitalia.com. If you buy them far enough in advance (up to 120 days), you can get them at a significant discount.

Masterphil

ekc...I have been to Venice twice and both times I stayed for 2 nights. I thought it was the perfect amount of time to stay in Venice.

My first time to Europe, I arrived in Rome after London and Paris. I enjoyed seeing all of the touristy stuff in Rome, but genuinely didn't like the city! We had planned on 4 nights in Rome and cut it to 3. We travelled to Florence and were kind of bored by the city. We enjoyed Venice, but felt that 2 days was plenty.

Just sharing my opinion...

I'm a hit and run kind of guy, I like seeing as much as possible during my time in Europe. I'm not the type that spends hours in a museum and needs weeks to "truly see the city."

I have some great memories of lots of places, even though I only spent 2 days there. I think that's better than having memories of fewer places.

dwdvagamundo

Aside from the time in Athens, which I think is one country too many for a three-week trip, I like the original itinerary. I wouldn't do Disney either, but it's not my trip.

Pompeii is a long day trip--maybe too long--from Rome, so I'd take the time allocated to Athens and stay somewhere around the Bay of Naples; Sorrento is a good spot because you can easily visit Pompeii, Herculaneum, and Naples itself via train from there. You can get your fix of Greek ruins by taking a day trip to Paestum to see some of the loveliest Greek temples in existence along with a knockout museum and by visiting the Greco-Roman ruins under San Lorenzo Maggiore in Naples itself. If you're into Greek myths, visit the cave of the Cumean Sybil just outside Naples.

Naples instead of Athens cuts down the travel time and makes the whole thing less expensive. Plus the Bay of Naples is one of the most beautiful places I've been to, while Athens, apart from the Acropolis/Agora area, is just a big modern traffic choked city.

FWIW, I agree more with sandralist than with Petros and disagree most with Masterphil, who seems not to like Italy much. I would not add London to this trip--it's too rushed now.

thursdaysd

Options for Paris to Venice by train: http://www.seat61.com/international-...tm#Paris-Italy

Note that the night train not only saves time, but also a hotel night.

I spent a week in Venice seven years ago, and am delighted to be going back for at least five nights, maybe more, this fall.

I enjoyed Athens, but I saw it in the spring without a lot of tourists around. I also loved Crete, but I would chose one or the other, not try to do both.

ekc

"Note that the night train not only saves time, but also a hotel night"

Only if you can actually sleep on a train that stops at various points during the night, which most people cannot according to the reviews on this and other sites.

thursdaysd

Question most. I certainly can.

Masterphil

dwdvagamundo... I love Italy! What I actually said was...I didn't like Rome (I am going there next month so I will give it another shot)and Florence didn't do much for me! I love Venice, CT, Santa Marguerita Ligure, Portofino, the Dolomites, Lake Como and the Piedmont area.

Masterphil

Luniana...I would like to read your trip report when you get back! It will be fun to see what your feelings were after getting so much advise here on this forum.