Hi guys,

I am a 23 year old girl from Australia. I am weighing up whether to visit America or Europe when I finish uni towards the end of November. If I go to Europe I was thinking of going for at least 4 weeks. Destinations I would like to visit that I have noted have milder weather or are still good in winter are Berlin, Munich, Amsterdam, barcelona and Rome.
If I got to America I would like to visit new York, San francisco, LA, Washington and New Orleans.

Should I save Europe for summer? What are those American cities like in winter?
If I get into a program I applied for that will run in china I will only be able to travel from dec 10th onwards or I can fit in travel after 15th of November until the 30th. If my time is more limited should I do America instead? Or do Europe and cut down the cities I want to spend time in.
Thank you so much!!!

There is low-light in Northern Europe that cuts down on the enjoyability of outdoor sightseeing, even when it is not raining or snowing or freezing cold. I don't consider Amsterdam and Berlin good winter destinations.

Much of Washington DC shuts down between end of November and mid-January.

Whichever continent you choose, you need to be flexible about weather disrupting your plans, and be prepared for high prices for Christmas travel. If you go to the US, prices drop for DC and New Orleans for Christmas.

If your time is limited, traveling through America requires a lot of time lost to airports and air travel. If you are in Europe, things are much more compact.

I lived in LA about 15 years, and it is fairly nice in winter, at least compared to more northern climates, of course. It isn't tropical by any means, but can be sunny and pretty nice weather. Too cold to go swimming, although I think in recent years with global warming there have been some hot days in mid-winter with people at the beach (although maybe not in the water). LA is just a fun city and very pleasant.

San Francisco is a lot colder, of course, being up north, very different atmosphere (I think of it as more sophisticated and cultural, but it has some funky neighborhoods, also, that are cool), it is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, I think. Easy to get around by public transportation right in the city.

Now I have lived in Washington DC for many years and I don't understand the above comment that much of the city "shuts down" between end of Nov and January. I suppose if you are a politician or lobbyist, that can be a slow period, Congress usually wraps up mid-December and goes home, but that doesn't have anything to do with what a tourist would be concerned with. In fact, it is an advantage as with more businesspeople out of town, room rates are lower. Museums are open virtually every day of the year, perhaps not Christmas, but that is no problem. There is plenty of theater and performing arts in that period, and most anything else is normal as far as I'm concerned. I suppose some of the students in the universities go home for Christmas, but that's no problem. It is nice that the public ice rink opens on the Mall, also. It is generally gray (but sometimes sunny) but doesn't usually snow in December. Weather is milder than more northern cities, so it's not too bad. Washington is fairly small for a city and thus pretty walkable in the central area, and has a good metro system for the areas tourists would want to go. I also think Washington is very beautiful, but more in the spring and Fall for the flowers and trees, but it is attractive at any time.

New Orleans is just fun city and lots of good food, you don't need to go far, either, I think people mainly go for the music and food and party atmosphere around the French quarter.

I think you've picked a lot of good cities for the US, of course NY and LA are far apart, sometimes you can get cheap airline fares between LA and Washington (or NY/SF, I suppose) that aren't too bad. I think both Southwest and Jet Blue airlines and Virgin America do some of those nonstops (VA goes into San Francisco) as I've taken them at various times.

Washington museum visits will be much better at that time of year vs. summer since there will be fewer tourists in town.

You can get a JetBlue non-stop from Washington into Oakland, California, for San Francisco.

You need to decide what kind of wheather you want. If you want mild weather, then either go to Spain/Southern France/Rome-Sicily in Europe, or LA/San Diego/Southern US (such as Phoenix, San Antonio, New Orleans, Florida)in the US.

If you don't mind cold and rain or snow, then I'd suggest Paris/Alsace-Lorraine/Germany (where many cities have beautiful Christmas markets) in Germany, or Boston/New York/Washington in the US.

The other thing you need to consider is how crowded and expensie plaes will be. For most of Europe tha time o fyear is low season - and you can probably get hotel bargains. Of course, it will be grey, short days with rain and possibly some snow - father north - and sights may be on off-season hours, which in Italy can mean 9 am to 1 or 2 pm.

In the US you are not so far north - so although days are comparatively short - not as bad as northern europe. However it is high season in NYC and from DC north will be cold (at least as cold as northern europe - which is oddly warm due to the gulf stream). Also distances in the US will be much greater and you will need to fly from one place to another - except the NE corridor - since train service is extremely limited.

Also, the US is typically less expensive than europe - except for NY - where Nov and Dec are high season - and often incredibly crowded.

I lived in Berlin for 3 years and November and December are pretty depressing months. The skies start getting grey in November and stay that way until spring. It can also be really cold! My mother-in-law came to visit in December one year and the temperatures never rose above freezing for the entire 2 weeks of her stay.

I currently live just outside Washington, D.C. As others have already mentioned, D.C. does NOT close down from late November to mid-January. We are all here working; our kids are going to school; and all of the tourist attractions are open! (Some are even open on Christmas Day.) The best thing about Washington D.C. is that all of the Smithsonian museums (and there are many of them) are free. The National Gallery of Art is free. All of the monuments and memorials are free to see. The tours of the U.S. Capitol and other sites are free too. (Kind of like Canberra, where we lived for a few years too.)

One thing I note is that you only want to visit big cities in the U.S. I liken that to going to Australia and just visiting Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth. I would not get a real feel for Australia if that's all I saw. Perhaps you would like to include (or substitute) some sites, particularly in the South where it will be warmer in November and December. Some interesting places that come to mind off the top of my head are: Austin, Texas (where I went to college and whose motto is "Keep Austin Weird"), Charleston, South Carolina (a lovely city of art, architecture, cuisine and history) Phoenix, Arizona (fabulous landscapes), and Key West, Florida (a fun city I recently visited which would be pleasantly warm in December).

I have lived in Washington all of my adult life and never has it shut down in November and December. It is very nice during the holidays.

New York, though it can be a bit chilly, is also nice. If you want mild, Southern California, Southern Arizona, Texas, the Gulf Coast and Florida would suit you at that time of year.

If you decide on Europe, it is much further north than the US and, therefore the days are shorter at that time of year. Spain and Portugal, the South of Italy, Greece and Turkey would be the warmest.

Thank you so much for your responses. I will definitely be taking them all into consideration in making my decision.

I do not want to visit anywhere that the weather makes it unbearable to the point that I would not enjoy my time in Europe. Some cold is okay especially if for the sake of enjoying the Christmas markets.

If I go to America I would definitely be interested in venturing outside the major cities. I think I have picked those cities as a starting point in making plans and if I pick America I will have a look at the options suggested. I also would not mind traveling to some smaller towns in America. If you have any suggestions of great little towns that would be greatly appreciated.

Someone mentioned that Berlin and Amsterdam are not great winter cities. Does this mean I should avoid traveling to them? One of the main reasons I would like to visit Amsterdam is to visit Anne Frank's house, therefore perhaps it is best if I just got to Amsterdam for a short trip.

If I choose America, New York is an absolute must for me.

Thank you so much guys.

If most of your interests in Amsterdam and Berlin involve being indoors, then both are very much doable, and both have excellent public transportation systems. Amsterdam can get quite a lot of driving, cold rain in winter that makes it not such a great destination in winter for people who prefer strolling around and bicycling to museum-going.

If you posted a bit more about what you would like to get out of your visit to America it would be easier to make suggestions about your itinerary. Were it me, I would be less interested in going to Washington DC when Congress and the Supreme Court are not in session and a great many of the young people who work there have gone elsewhere for the holidays, but maybe you are more interested in DC's museums or architecture. As for small towns: will you have a car and what attracts you to them? Small towns in the East are very different from ones near New Orleans or in California -- and many of them are really not that different from what you have in Australia.

I've been to both Amsterdam and Berlin in the November/December time frame. Although it was somewhat cold and damp I was mainly interested in inside activities and I enjoyed doing those in both cities.

As to Christmas market activity; there was a lot of that including a toboggan run set up at the Potsdamer Platz in Berlin and those booths were in other places as well (near the Zoo station).

I think vespacruves is a bit off base as to what DC is like. As others have stated it there is plenty to do and going on during the holidays. The only people missing are the congress people who do go home for the holidays and really they don't make much of a dent in the DC population. In terms of young people leaving, i doubt that it is any different than any city when lots of people go on holiday or to their home states for the holidays. The only thing you would miss is a visit to see Congress or the Supreme Court in session.

I would pick the cities you want to visit and then focus on the small towns. If you go to NYC, a visit to the Hudson Valley might be nice. It's a beautiful area with lots of small towns and lots to see. In the DC area, Annapolis is a nice small town, Harpers Ferry, WVA Williamsburg or Charlottesville are are also quite nice to visit a within a few hours of DC.

Weatherwise in Nov there is rarely snow in DC in Nov -- occasionally it might snow but its gone the next day. Temps are not terribly cold and can be quite mild throughout Nov. Dec can get snow now and then, but generally not big storms.

IF you decide upon the US, with t he time you have I would focus on one coast or the other. Perhaps you could fly to NO for a few days -- its closer to the East Coast.

I would recommend Harpers Ferry and Annapolis, too, but maybe they don't meet your standards for a "small" town (though Harpers Ferry comes close). Annapolis in particular is a busy place -- home to the US Naval Academy -- but worth the trip.

I agree with yestravel about DC. I lived there for 2 years, and Nov. is a good time to visit. Nearby small town worth visiting: Middleburg, VA.

If u come here skip New Orleans ... My friends lives there not much to do..may I suggest Los Angeles , santA Monica promenade area one day, Laguna beach one day if in Ca ..Newyork DEFINITELY... Jacksonhole Wyoming or Yosemite instead of New Orleans ..definitely Grand Canyon or Yosemite vs New Orleans...the fall is gorgeous on the east coast though in nov &should not be missed

I notice that you are under 25. I believe you may find it more difficult and/or more expensive to rent a car in the US at that age. And if you are going anywhere outside the big cities, or even TO some big cities, such as LA, you will need a car. Public transport in Europe is out of sight better than in the US.

<<Much of Washington DC shuts down between end of November and mid-January.>>

Huh? What are you talking about? I live in DC, and nothing shuts down, ever. Except when we have blizzards, which we have a couple of times in the past few years. And even then, it's just hard to get around - things don't "shut down." Whether Congress or the Supreme Court are in session has nothing to do with "shutting down" unless you want to do a tour of those places, which most people don't. There is SO much to do and see here without going to watch a bunch of old white men at work.

Amsterdam gets more rain in the summer than it does in the winter.
Yes it can be grey for days on end, but it can also be sunny and delightful and a lot less crowded than it is in the spring/summer. Short daylight hours are possibly a problem, but most attractions are indoors and if you do get a great day then you can always choose to do something outside instead.
Snow is extremely unlikely, even in December. Possible but not probable. It could be cold, but unlikely to be below freezing either - but if it is then normally the weather is otherwise lovely with blue skies, and sunshine.

How much time are you planning on spending of you go to the US instead? That is a lot of ground to cover in only 4 weeks.

New York City will be alive at that time. It may be cold, but I would go in a heartbeat! So much going on with the holidays!

San Francisco is colder than LA in the winter (well, all year round). But it's much warmer than New York and Washington, DC. Often there are sunny days. So very good walking around weather.

I am also curious as to what exactlty shuts down in Washington in November-December. Kings Dominion? Congress goes into recess but the Capitol is still open. As is the whole rest of the city.

The big problem with what vespa said is that it perpetuates the total falsehood that Washington is an unpopulated place with only federal office buildings and museums where everyone clears out when the government isn't in session, or return to Virginia or Maryland at night because no one lives in Washington. It's actually a fairly large city with more than 600,000 permanent residents.

Without voting representation in Congress, BTW.

OK.

Don't worry about the weather. It will be a little chilly, at least on the East Coast. Bring or buy a coat.

I think I would start in NYC for a few days, and then take the train to Philadelphia (about 1 1/4 hours). Philadelphia is a great historic city with plenty to do and very walkable - definitely worth a couple of days. Then train to Washington (2 hours).

Then fly from Washington to New Orleans for a few days.

After New Orleans, fly west to Las Vegas. It is hideous but you should see it. But the main reason for Vegas is its proximity to the Hoover Dam and the Grand Canyon.

Then San Francisco, then maybe LA, then home.

No need for a car.