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England/Scotland Itinerary - Advice needed

England/Scotland Itinerary - Advice needed

Old Jul 31st, 2011, 09:04 PM
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England/Scotland Itinerary - Advice needed

I am looking for some advice on our trip for Mid May 2012. We are looking to stay as follows:
Day 1 -4 – Arrive in London, spend 4 nights in London
Day 5 - 6 – Train early to Bath. Spend two nights here, one day exploring Bath and one day taking a tour to Stratford Upon Avon, The Cotswolds, Stonehenge (not all of these, just haven’t studied the logistics of this part and which cities we definitely want to see).
Does it make more sense to just take day trips from London instead of staying in Bath?
Day 7 – Train early to Liverpool – spend day doing Beatles sights. Wife says this is a must.
Day 8 – 9 – Train from Liverpool to York – 2 Nights in York (could possibly cut this out if too hectic )
Day 10-11 – York to Edinburgh – 2 nights in Edinburgh (is two days enough)
Day 12- 15– Fly non-stop to Paris (assuming I can find a cheap non-stop flight (i.e. around $75 US) – spend 4 nights in Paris.
Day 16 – Chunnel from Paris to London and depending on days, either spend another day in London or leave same day.
Is this too hectic? We want to see as much of England as possible (main sites that interest us) but not be so busy that we can’t enjoy each place. We will be using trains, just not sure if we should buy a rail pass or purchase individual tickets.
We are flexible on the order and where we go, but definitely want to see London, Paris and Liverpool and Edinburg. We can also make the trip a few days longer if need. Any must see places I am leaving out?
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Old Jul 31st, 2011, 10:00 PM
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You will save time, hassle, and probably money, if you fly open jaw. In to London and home from Paris. Or even in to Edinburgh and home from Paris.

No need to return to London just to fly out.
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Old Jul 31st, 2011, 11:16 PM
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Looks pretty good to me, although I haven't taken those English trains so I can't comment on those, nor have I been to Liverpool. Bath, York and Edinburgh are all worth a couple of nights. I would certainly stay there rather than day trips.

I liked the Eurostar, it was fast (2 hours 20 minutes) and pleasant. If you book early it won't cost a lot; the price goes up as you get closer to the day. I had no problems booking via the web.

I'd spend the extra night in London, but that may depend on your flight times. If you fly out in the evening you could easily be in London before lunch, leave your bags at a luggage store (or the hotel you stayed at earlier) and spend a pleasant day before departing.

Cheers, Alan, Australia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/)
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Old Aug 1st, 2011, 05:52 AM
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The trains north and south tend to be pretty well packed for business purposes, so book early (te get a good price) and take a reservation (normally free) for a particular train so you can get a seat.

There are things called quiet coaches on most trains where the English go from reasonably friendly people into "silence monitors" (think early school prefects), in these you are not supposed to talk, use phones or anything electronic, shake a paper or eat crisps (ok getting a little odd here). Anyway if you want to sit in one then they can be selected, alternatively you get to sit with the belching, shouting, tsststt listening mob but at least you can talk to people (apart from during the rush hour people do like to chat to strangers they are just incredibly shy).
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Old Aug 1st, 2011, 06:24 AM
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2 nights in Edinburgh (is two days enough)

ah, after 3 trips and wanting more, maybe not ;-) or that's certainly just my own issue, lol.

janisj's suggestion of into Edinburgh and out of Paris makes nice trip logistical sense
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Old Aug 1st, 2011, 06:48 AM
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If you do fly into Edinburgh and are arriving after a long, overnight flight, allow an extra day to get over jet-lag/sleepiness.

I find your itinerary exhausting. And remember 2 nights in a city is one day, maybe a 1.5 days if close to your previous stop. It takes time to check out of a hotel, get to a train station, travel to your next stop (maybe changing trains mid-journey), transport yourself and bags to your new hotel and check in.

I personally would get awfully frustrated with only one day in Bath, one day in York. And 2 days isn't much for Edinburgh.

Once your itinerary gels, check into buying a Britrail pass. Compare it to the rail fares you can get with early purchase. The savings with the latter can be considerable.
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Old Aug 1st, 2011, 12:20 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions so far! Ideally we would like to fly straight home from Paris, but we are booking with miles and there isn't much flexibility for a return flight from Paris so it looks like we will have to return to London.

Mimar - an exhausting itinerary is what worries us. Might try to add an extra day at one of the stops (have a 3 night stay in one place) to help us recover.

I have a lot of research to do with the trains. We will definitely book early whatever we choose.
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Old Aug 1st, 2011, 01:12 PM
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I like trains and I also enjoy brief visits, which is one reason I had no problem with your itinerary.

However, one way to add flexibility may be to rent a car on a one-way rental instead. We did something similar to your trip in reverse in '06.

We flew into Edinburgh late, stayed overnight in a cheap but acceptable Travelodge then spent the next day in the old town before picking up the car and staying that night in a B&B en-route to Loch Lomond.

We then wandered over the next week until we ended up Oxford. From memory we stayed in west Scotland, Carlisle, near York, a couple of days in Frome (near Bath); I've forgotten a night or two. In that short time we also briefly visited Stirling, Hadrian's Wall, York, Shrewsbury, east Wales, Bath, Stonehenge and many spots en-route. We stayed mainly in B&Bs, arranging them at information centres on arrival in a town, or occasionally booking hotels on the web as we travelled.

I just did something similar in June, driving from London to Ipswich over a week via Oxford, Birmingham and Cambridge.

But if you don't like driving forget everything I wrote

Cheers, Alan, Australia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
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Old Aug 1st, 2011, 01:39 PM
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Thanks Trav! Unfortunately, we are not fans of driving and want to keep it simple if possible (and cheaper).
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Old Aug 1st, 2011, 02:15 PM
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The problem I see is that this itinerary is all over the place. If you could drop either York or Liverpool it would simplify things significantly

I would suggest that you consider flying to/from Paris from Liverpool, Manchester or Bristol or finish in Bath (or Oxford) where it's easy to return to Heathrow. You should not have to pass through central London more than once. You might even want to consider flying between Bristol & Edinburgh or flying to Edinburgh or Paris as soon as you arrive in the UK and finish with time in London.
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Old Aug 1st, 2011, 07:32 PM
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If it was up to me we would drop Liverpool, but wife really wants to go there to experience the Beatles.
We have miles from British Airways, so it seems whatever we do, we will fly through London. We might consider dropping York.Thanks for your ideas.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2011, 06:11 AM
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With BA miles you can still fly home from Paris. You just have to change planes at Heathrow. That's less time-consuming than spending a night in London.
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Old Aug 14th, 2011, 06:59 PM
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Here is our revised literary based on the comments above and finally booking our flight. We Leave DFW on 5/21, arrive LHR on 5/22 and leave LHR on June 8. Any obvious mistakes we are making? We want to see a lot but not be too hectic.

Day 1- 4 – Arrive in London at 10 am. 4 nights in London; will try to use Priceline to book a 4 star/5 star hotel. Would like to keep it to ~$150 USD per night (can be flexible). Any suggestions for best area for safety and convenience for tourist attractions?

Day 5 - 7 – London to Bath by Train. Spend 3 nights in Bath. Would like to stay in a B&B. Plan to spend 2 of the days taking in Bath and 1 days going to Stratford Upon Avon or another day trip (still need to figure out best tour/way to get there, would like to see a play if possible if we don’t see one in London). What method do you all suggest to book a B&B (would like to keep it to ~$125/night). Are we better off staying an extra day in London and taking the day trip to Stratford from there?

Day 8 – Early Train from Bath to Liverpool. Will try to see as much Beatles stuff as we can in this short amount of time. Seems like it should be pretty easy to get a decent hotel here for cheap, just not sure where in the city we should stay yet. Best Beatles tour (I’m sure there are tons)?

Day 9- 11 - Train from Liverpool to Edinburgh. 3 nights in Edinburgh. Not sure if we should stay in a B&B or hotel. Just want to be in a convenient location and spend around $125 night. Will take a day tour one day to either Loch Lomond or Loch Ness/Highlands (any suggestions?)

Day 12- 15 – Non-stop flight from Edinburgh to Paris. 4 nights in Paris. Booked hotel at Park Hyatt Vendome. Plan to spend 3 days seeing Paris and one day tour to Versailles.

Day 16 – 17 – Eurostar from Paris to London. Spend 2 last nights in London seeing places we missed. Possible day trip to Oxford or Cambridge or any place we happen to miss. Will try to use Priceline again to book.

Day 18 – Fly home at 11am. Thanks for your help!
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Old Aug 15th, 2011, 05:05 AM
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days 5-7 stratford upon avon there are at times 3 shows a day (per my 2009 guidebook, you need to verify) the matinee sells out very fast and if you could only get the later shows you would end up spending the night. How about train from bath/bristol to Birmingham, drop luggaget at b&B or hotel then see the town. then next am take train from birmingham to liverpool? SUA/birmingham is almost 1/2 way to liverpool thus saving valuable drive time.
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Old Aug 15th, 2011, 08:02 AM
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That sounds like a good idea, but we want to minimize short stays; and this will probably be more expensive transportion wise (we are taking trains). Probably will have to just try to take in a show in London.
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Old Aug 15th, 2011, 08:24 AM
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Hello,
I have taken a combination of transport methods through England and Scotland. Once drove from London-Scotland and drove all through Scotland. Though the first time I went to Scotland took a MacBackpackers bus which is something like what you were asking about seeing the Highlands without renting a car.

I'm sure that there are other MacBackpacker like options, where this was designed more for the younger crowd, but the ease is that one could hop on or off whenever one wanted in a certain stop/city.

In driving of course one has more freedom, but I was a fan of both ways, if limited on time, I would take the hop on hop off intra Scotland busses.

I did drive from London to York and back once, and I personally really liked York, we stayed three nights, one could get by with two days there. I also took the train once from Glasgow to Edinburgh and would also advise to get the tickets beforehand. The train ride itself was quite comfortable and roomy.
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