Chip + Pin Credit Card
Mar 27th, 2015, 05:26 PM
#61
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We have a Visa card through a major US bank and it has a chip but we were asked (prior to the card being issued) if we wanted to have a pen number. We said no. It was not a problem using it in Europe one bit. It wasn't as convenient having to sign rather than inputing the pin. But it was a chip card.
Mar 27th, 2015, 07:10 PM
#62
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It is indeed the card issuing bank which decides the verification hierarchy. A chip & signature card defaults to signature as its primary verification method. However, a chip & signature card can have secondary, possibly tertiary acceptance criteria.
If a purchase is made, for example, where the primary verification method is not available, such as at pay-at-the-pump fuel stations or at ticket kiosks, the secondary verification method as defined by the card issuing bank, is used for purchase verification.
Andrews and PenFed both use PIN as the backup verification method. Some banks use a capped dollar amount in lieu of secondary purchase verification. This is why some card holders can purchase métro tickets at kiosks without entering a PIN.
A way to confirm if your card is chip & PIN or chip & signature is to use it at Walmart as xyz123 points out. If the card reader asks you for a PIN, your card is using PIN as its primary verification method and is a true chip & PIN card. If you are asked to provide a signature, signature is the primary verification method and the card is not a true chip & PIN.
It´s unfortunate that US banks have decided to issue chip & signature cards rather than chip & PIN cards. Completing a purchase with a PIN is fast and efficient.
If a purchase is made, for example, where the primary verification method is not available, such as at pay-at-the-pump fuel stations or at ticket kiosks, the secondary verification method as defined by the card issuing bank, is used for purchase verification.
Andrews and PenFed both use PIN as the backup verification method. Some banks use a capped dollar amount in lieu of secondary purchase verification. This is why some card holders can purchase métro tickets at kiosks without entering a PIN.
A way to confirm if your card is chip & PIN or chip & signature is to use it at Walmart as xyz123 points out. If the card reader asks you for a PIN, your card is using PIN as its primary verification method and is a true chip & PIN card. If you are asked to provide a signature, signature is the primary verification method and the card is not a true chip & PIN.
It´s unfortunate that US banks have decided to issue chip & signature cards rather than chip & PIN cards. Completing a purchase with a PIN is fast and efficient.
Mar 27th, 2015, 07:27 PM
#63
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"A way to confirm if your card is chip & PIN or chip & signature is to use it at Walmart as xyz123 points out."
Wouldn't you need for walmart to have a card scanner that requires the insertion of card so that the chip is in the scanner??
http://www.staples.com/Ingenico-iCT250/product_1199832
Or does using the magnetic strip [which would be done at walmart] still require a PIN if it is a "true" chip and Pin?
Or does using the magnetic strip cause it to be "signature" and ignore the chip, regardless if it's a PIN or signature.
I don't know the answer, maybe you do.
Seems to me you swipe the card via the magnetic strip... no matter what kind of card it is, the result will be a signature required. Thus causing your test to be invalid.
I don't care what you call the Andrews card - it has worked flawlessly for me in 9 countries during the last 6 months, unmanned tolls, gas stations and ticket machines. As well as stores, restaurants etc.
Isn't THAT what really matters??
Wouldn't you need for walmart to have a card scanner that requires the insertion of card so that the chip is in the scanner??
http://www.staples.com/Ingenico-iCT250/product_1199832
Or does using the magnetic strip [which would be done at walmart] still require a PIN if it is a "true" chip and Pin?
Or does using the magnetic strip cause it to be "signature" and ignore the chip, regardless if it's a PIN or signature.
I don't know the answer, maybe you do.
Seems to me you swipe the card via the magnetic strip... no matter what kind of card it is, the result will be a signature required. Thus causing your test to be invalid.
I don't care what you call the Andrews card - it has worked flawlessly for me in 9 countries during the last 6 months, unmanned tolls, gas stations and ticket machines. As well as stores, restaurants etc.
Isn't THAT what really matters??
Mar 28th, 2015, 01:50 AM
#65
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Debit nm...Nearly every Walmart in the USA has turned on its emv processing and the terminals at every register, including self service, can handle both emv chip transactions and magnetic strip transactions. Now in theory, if your card has an emv chip, the magnetic strip is not supposed to work if the terminal is emv compliant. Swipe an emv compliant card in a terminal with emv enabled and you get a message, or at least you're supposed to get a message to insert the card in the emv clot. There was sme talk that during the holiday season, Walmart had disabled this so as not to hold up the queues. Don't know how true that was and whether the no magnetic strip bypass is currently functioning.
Magnetic strip cards at Walmart are processed the same way they always have. No signature required for purchases under $50; otherwise sign the signature pad but the cashier almost never looks or compares. Insert an emv cad, you get a message first telling you not to remove the card until prompted to do so. If it's a "true" chip and pin card or a foreign chip and pin card, it will now ask for your pin. If it's a chip and signature card, again you will be prompted after several seconds to remove your card and if the amount is under $50, you're done. If not, you sign the signature pad and then you're done. Scattered throughout the USA are a few, very few, merchants who have turned on their emv processing even though many already have emv compliant terminals.
Without wishing to be nasty to anybody, frankly while I would prefer pin it's not of earth shaking importance. All I want to know is my card will work 100% of the time when I need it. As I said, and this will be my last word on this, visa is the force behind the push to go chip and signature in the USA; MasterCard, Amex and Discover have acquiesced on this to visa. Visa claims as part of the deal, they will re-double their efforts to make sure merchants do not void perfectly good transaction because it asks for a signature rather than a pin. There does not seem to be any increase in the number of merchants pulling this. Visa also says it is working to make sure kiosks while asking for a pin first, will go further down the list of cvm's on the chip and process the transactions without a pin verification. This is supposed to take effect on 01 July 2015. That should resolve the problem. As far as security, yes pin is a tad more secure than signature but the only real difference is the case if the actual card is lost and figures show this is not really a big problem. Besides, in the USA and most other countries too, if your account is hacked, the bank eats the fraud, you have zero liability, so why worry? Now if only European merchants would adopt the sensible USA method of not even bothering with signatures for small purchases, the whole matter will become moot and our attention can turn to the inevitable surge in online fraud when it is no longer easy to clone a magnetic strip card.
Magnetic strip cards at Walmart are processed the same way they always have. No signature required for purchases under $50; otherwise sign the signature pad but the cashier almost never looks or compares. Insert an emv cad, you get a message first telling you not to remove the card until prompted to do so. If it's a "true" chip and pin card or a foreign chip and pin card, it will now ask for your pin. If it's a chip and signature card, again you will be prompted after several seconds to remove your card and if the amount is under $50, you're done. If not, you sign the signature pad and then you're done. Scattered throughout the USA are a few, very few, merchants who have turned on their emv processing even though many already have emv compliant terminals.
Without wishing to be nasty to anybody, frankly while I would prefer pin it's not of earth shaking importance. All I want to know is my card will work 100% of the time when I need it. As I said, and this will be my last word on this, visa is the force behind the push to go chip and signature in the USA; MasterCard, Amex and Discover have acquiesced on this to visa. Visa claims as part of the deal, they will re-double their efforts to make sure merchants do not void perfectly good transaction because it asks for a signature rather than a pin. There does not seem to be any increase in the number of merchants pulling this. Visa also says it is working to make sure kiosks while asking for a pin first, will go further down the list of cvm's on the chip and process the transactions without a pin verification. This is supposed to take effect on 01 July 2015. That should resolve the problem. As far as security, yes pin is a tad more secure than signature but the only real difference is the case if the actual card is lost and figures show this is not really a big problem. Besides, in the USA and most other countries too, if your account is hacked, the bank eats the fraud, you have zero liability, so why worry? Now if only European merchants would adopt the sensible USA method of not even bothering with signatures for small purchases, the whole matter will become moot and our attention can turn to the inevitable surge in online fraud when it is no longer easy to clone a magnetic strip card.
Mar 28th, 2015, 03:19 AM
#66
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I agree completely that universal card acceptance is what is most important to the user. Most of the chip & signature cards fill this need.
However, cost is also very important, to me at least. I have both a chip & PIN USAA MC and a chip & signature PenFed card. I would rather use the USAA card but USAA charges (or passes along) the 1% currency conversion fee. I believe that all of the US banks offering chip & PIN cards do the same.
Ultimately, I actually use my chip & signature card because there are absolutely no fees. 1% can add up over a year. PenFed, and I am sure Andrews as well, has been accepted anywhere I have personally presented it for payment, i.e. fuel stations, ticket kiosks, toll booths.
It is for these two reasons, universal acceptance and no fees, that I use and recommend cards such as PenFed and Andrews.
However, cost is also very important, to me at least. I have both a chip & PIN USAA MC and a chip & signature PenFed card. I would rather use the USAA card but USAA charges (or passes along) the 1% currency conversion fee. I believe that all of the US banks offering chip & PIN cards do the same.
Ultimately, I actually use my chip & signature card because there are absolutely no fees. 1% can add up over a year. PenFed, and I am sure Andrews as well, has been accepted anywhere I have personally presented it for payment, i.e. fuel stations, ticket kiosks, toll booths.
It is for these two reasons, universal acceptance and no fees, that I use and recommend cards such as PenFed and Andrews.
Mar 28th, 2015, 03:49 AM
#67
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Sarastro...evidently you have one of the grandfathered USAA cards which were "true" chip and pin cards when first issued. But unfortunately we are reaching the stage where the vast majority of these cards have expired and replacement cards issued in their stead with signature now the number one cvm for purchases. On Flyer Talk, we named that process as "pulling a USAA" in honor of their disdain for the public (although their promotional material still claims it is the merchant who determines whether a transaction is signature based or pin based not the card which we know is not true.)
At this point in time, I use the Bank of America cash rewards card for my every day transactions when away from home for the same reason you do. My particular version of the card has been grandfathered with no foreign transaction fee (the card normally carries the moronic 3% Bank of America foreign transaction fee). I also used my Fidelity American Express card which carries a 2% cash back rewards but has a 1% ftf so I come out 1% ahead. The most important thing people should be looking for instead of worrying about chip and signature but not chip and pin is no foreign transaction fee and no annual fee.
At this point in time, I use the Bank of America cash rewards card for my every day transactions when away from home for the same reason you do. My particular version of the card has been grandfathered with no foreign transaction fee (the card normally carries the moronic 3% Bank of America foreign transaction fee). I also used my Fidelity American Express card which carries a 2% cash back rewards but has a 1% ftf so I come out 1% ahead. The most important thing people should be looking for instead of worrying about chip and signature but not chip and pin is no foreign transaction fee and no annual fee.
Mar 28th, 2015, 05:16 AM
#68
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I will have to look at the card readers in Walmart here in NM. I can't say I ever looked for a chip slot. Will report back if it asks for my PIN. I do not use the Andrews card at home, so will dust it off and give it a go.
Mar 28th, 2015, 10:33 AM
#72
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Yes, sometimes I do go into my nearest Walmart in Biddeford, Maine. The other day, just for fun, I tried out my chipped US Bank Visa. It worked fine. Debit, the slot was underneath the place where you would swipe a non-chipped card.
May 22nd, 2015, 01:12 AM
#73
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The Chip+Pin credit card is an absolute must - there are no two ways about it. Universal acceptance is the characteristic we'd like our ideal cards to possess. Here's an interesting piece on CreditCardProcessing(dot)com which explains why the smart chip in your credit card (or the EMV chip card, as we know it) is a boon - http://www.creditcardprocessing.com/...n-smart-chips/.
May 22nd, 2015, 03:10 AM
#74
In other good news, it was announced yesterday in France that soon there will be no minimum amount for bank card transactions. A lot of small places have placed a 7€ or 15€ minimum on card payments until now due to a minimum commission fee that the banks levy on small merchants. The big places (supermarkets, SNCF, RATP, department stores...) got rid of the minimum in 2002 when the euro arrived. People were encouraged to pay everything by card, since it was feared that sales would drop due to people not wanting to humiliate themselves fumbling around with unfamiliar banknotes and coins ( like tourists! 
). Anyway, I don't expect the minimums to disappear for at least 6 months because it will take at least that long for the government to strongarm the banks to abolish the minimum fees. (As usual the banks will whine and claim to be losing money.)
). Anyway, I don't expect the minimums to disappear for at least 6 months because it will take at least that long for the government to strongarm the banks to abolish the minimum fees. (As usual the banks will whine and claim to be losing money.)
May 22nd, 2015, 07:35 AM
#75
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Following up my previous post about using my chipped card in Walmart --
Last week I swiped my chipped card at Walmart and was informed by the cashier that I had to insert it into the chip reader instead. I have noticed recently that many other stores have installed the chip reader slots, but have not found one actually working yet.
Last week I swiped my chipped card at Walmart and was informed by the cashier that I had to insert it into the chip reader instead. I have noticed recently that many other stores have installed the chip reader slots, but have not found one actually working yet.
