Code needed on some credit card purchases in Denmark
Oct 17th, 2004, 04:53 AM
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Code needed on some credit card purchases in Denmark
I included this in my trip report, but also wanted to make a separate post. On our recent trip to Denmark, we ran into a problem using our vredit cards at grocery stores, train station kiosks, and smaller shops...a four digit code was required. We didn't know the code for ours (and probably wouldn't have used it, afraid it would count as a cash advance). I did try to use my debit card and code, but it didn't work.
I found out that all Danish credit cards are Dankort equipped, so there is a code for them. So, all Danes will have a four digit code for any card and will use it regularly.
A few stores used codes, but were able to process credit cards without them if requested specifically. One lady had to get out a manual to figure it out, but after ten minutes or so, we were on our way with our purchases. Other stores tolde us it was impossible.
The good news is that there are ATMs absolutely everywhere and we had no problems at all and good exchnage rates. Actually one of the intances at a grocery store required me leaving my groceries, running to the ATM and returning to pay.
I found out that all Danish credit cards are Dankort equipped, so there is a code for them. So, all Danes will have a four digit code for any card and will use it regularly.
A few stores used codes, but were able to process credit cards without them if requested specifically. One lady had to get out a manual to figure it out, but after ten minutes or so, we were on our way with our purchases. Other stores tolde us it was impossible.
The good news is that there are ATMs absolutely everywhere and we had no problems at all and good exchnage rates. Actually one of the intances at a grocery store required me leaving my groceries, running to the ATM and returning to pay.
Oct 17th, 2004, 05:16 AM
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Thanks for the warning. We ran into this once a couple of years ago at an unmanned car park in Luzern, Switzerland. The automated pay station wouldn't complete a credit card transaction without us entering our PIN. We ended up having to feed a bunch of cash into it to get our car out. As a result, I set up a four-digit PIN for our credit card after we got home -- even though we've never had to use a PIN with the card before or after that.
Oct 17th, 2004, 06:06 AM
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At present many countries and systems are converting to a chip system as well as a PIN system but it is hardly universal and the biggest cc country of them all, the USA has not made any dent in that.
For that reason, almost all systems recognize that US credit cards do not have codes. Several times during my trip to Scandanavia this summer, I was asked for a PIN number and when I said I didn't have one, I was simply told to press the green button. In France, there has been a chip system for years and Carte Bleu as I understand it is a debit card system and for years, when paying with a credit card, the little portable machines they bring to the table recognize if it's a chip card and ask for a PIN or a non chip card and print a receipt asking for a signature.
Of course in rurual areas of various countries where they don't see that many tourists, merchants may not be aware of the system but I bet if you had just pushed the green button the transaction would have gone through.
For that reason, almost all systems recognize that US credit cards do not have codes. Several times during my trip to Scandanavia this summer, I was asked for a PIN number and when I said I didn't have one, I was simply told to press the green button. In France, there has been a chip system for years and Carte Bleu as I understand it is a debit card system and for years, when paying with a credit card, the little portable machines they bring to the table recognize if it's a chip card and ask for a PIN or a non chip card and print a receipt asking for a signature.
Of course in rurual areas of various countries where they don't see that many tourists, merchants may not be aware of the system but I bet if you had just pushed the green button the transaction would have gone through.
Oct 17th, 2004, 06:14 AM
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xyz123 is absolutely right. The pin for credit cards is being introduced in many European countries. Just this past month, two off my cards were renewed, and now have a pin number. If your card does not have a pin, you should still be able to sign as usual. Stores that tell you that this is not possible, are wrong about this.
Perhaps it's a good idea to check this with your credit card company; most cards already do have a pin, and using it in stores to pay for goods, will not lead to a cash withdrawal charge.
Perhaps it's a good idea to check this with your credit card company; most cards already do have a pin, and using it in stores to pay for goods, will not lead to a cash withdrawal charge.
Oct 17th, 2004, 07:08 AM
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Tulips. From January, all credit and debit cards will have to be chip and PIN in the UK. All stores are installing the new devices and we are being told that cards will no longer be swiped after this date. I suppose that it will still be possible to swipe cards where the technology still exists, but as these tills become obsolete you will only be able to use a card with chip technology.
Oct 17th, 2004, 07:14 AM
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AR....
Given the US is still not moving in that direction, given the large number of Americans who travel the world and given the fact the international credit card systems are US based I would make a friendly wager that....
Until the chip technology is universal, all terminals will have to recognize that international cards do not have chip technology and most likely the terminals will be like those in France namely they will continue to take non chip cards from outside the UK requiring a signature.
That is not to say that there will be those merchants who will not want to know from that and may automatically not read the material concerning non chip cards from outside the UK and will claim, erroneously, that they can't take such cards....
Given the US is still not moving in that direction, given the large number of Americans who travel the world and given the fact the international credit card systems are US based I would make a friendly wager that....
Until the chip technology is universal, all terminals will have to recognize that international cards do not have chip technology and most likely the terminals will be like those in France namely they will continue to take non chip cards from outside the UK requiring a signature.
That is not to say that there will be those merchants who will not want to know from that and may automatically not read the material concerning non chip cards from outside the UK and will claim, erroneously, that they can't take such cards....
Oct 17th, 2004, 08:04 AM
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Right, so my local corner shop will hold out in-case some American wants to buy their groceries there? The Post Office in my place of work (a hospital)is already refusing to allow even UK citizens to sign. They insist you "chip and PIN".
Contrary to popular belief - and despite being the 51st state (on that subject, why can't I vote in the Presidential election? I'll have to ask Senator Blair), not all of the UK is run for the benefit of visitors from accross the pond. London, Bath, Stratford etc, maybe - but not the rest of the country. Try spending Euros in the provinces and see how many times you are refused.
I've also just had my replacement Capital One and Citibank chip cards. LOL.
Contrary to popular belief - and despite being the 51st state (on that subject, why can't I vote in the Presidential election? I'll have to ask Senator Blair), not all of the UK is run for the benefit of visitors from accross the pond. London, Bath, Stratford etc, maybe - but not the rest of the country. Try spending Euros in the provinces and see how many times you are refused.
I've also just had my replacement Capital One and Citibank chip cards. LOL.
Oct 17th, 2004, 08:17 AM
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No AR you miss the point...
All the new terminals will have to be set up to accept both chip based and magnetic striped based cards. The US is not the only country whose credit card systems will not be, as of 01 January, chip based...It is just a fact of economic life that one, and I don't mean the merchants but rather the international card associations, do not shut out one of your biggest source of revenue.
The stores, I am sure, are not receiving terminals that take chip cards to the exclusion of magnetic striped cards but rather in addition to magnetic striped cards. France has had the technology for years; yet the terminals all take both kinds of cards. While the UK government has mandated the use of chip based cards for UK issued cards, I doubt extremely that it will be prohibiting merchants from accepting cards from outside the UK that are magnetically striped. It has nothing to do with your corner grocery store, their terminal will be capable of accepting both and most likely the software or whatever will reject any remaining magnetic striped UK based cards but I assure you they will have to accept non UK based magnetic striped cards. Now whether merchants will understand they can accept such cards, well that's another story.
I'm sorry you thought my post was a parochial American narrow view point of the world post, it was not meant as so.
Perhaps in 5 or 10 years or whatever all credit cards will be chip based and require PIN numbers but bear in mind what about internet access, what about calling the theatre to make a booking...there will always probably be the need to manually enter credit card numbers and complete certain transactions without chip and pin technology.
Question, will you be able after January 1 to call the theatre and make a booking without entering a PIN number?
Regards,
xyz
All the new terminals will have to be set up to accept both chip based and magnetic striped based cards. The US is not the only country whose credit card systems will not be, as of 01 January, chip based...It is just a fact of economic life that one, and I don't mean the merchants but rather the international card associations, do not shut out one of your biggest source of revenue.
The stores, I am sure, are not receiving terminals that take chip cards to the exclusion of magnetic striped cards but rather in addition to magnetic striped cards. France has had the technology for years; yet the terminals all take both kinds of cards. While the UK government has mandated the use of chip based cards for UK issued cards, I doubt extremely that it will be prohibiting merchants from accepting cards from outside the UK that are magnetically striped. It has nothing to do with your corner grocery store, their terminal will be capable of accepting both and most likely the software or whatever will reject any remaining magnetic striped UK based cards but I assure you they will have to accept non UK based magnetic striped cards. Now whether merchants will understand they can accept such cards, well that's another story.
I'm sorry you thought my post was a parochial American narrow view point of the world post, it was not meant as so.
Perhaps in 5 or 10 years or whatever all credit cards will be chip based and require PIN numbers but bear in mind what about internet access, what about calling the theatre to make a booking...there will always probably be the need to manually enter credit card numbers and complete certain transactions without chip and pin technology.
Question, will you be able after January 1 to call the theatre and make a booking without entering a PIN number?
Regards,
xyz
Oct 19th, 2004, 09:23 AM
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Pardon my tongue in cheek-ness!!
The answer, xyz123 is that you'll have to quote the last 3 digits of your security code which is located at the back of the card (ironically, just above the magnetic strip). This is already becoming commonplace.
The answer, xyz123 is that you'll have to quote the last 3 digits of your security code which is located at the back of the card (ironically, just above the magnetic strip). This is already becoming commonplace.
Oct 19th, 2004, 09:35 AM
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My USA-based, magnetic stripe only, credit cards currently have PIN's solely for the purpose of getting cash advance at ATMs and/or checking credit card balances at ATMs.
The concern is using the card in UK for an ordinary purchase, and then entering PIN, would be interpreted as an extremely expensive cash advance.
>>> Does anyone have actual experience with this yet?
When I visisted UK a year ago, hotels and restaurants would scan my card and I'd sign a receipt, same as in USA.
After reading this thread I called Bank of America customer service (in USA), and they had no idea what I was talking about.
The concern is using the card in UK for an ordinary purchase, and then entering PIN, would be interpreted as an extremely expensive cash advance.
>>> Does anyone have actual experience with this yet?
When I visisted UK a year ago, hotels and restaurants would scan my card and I'd sign a receipt, same as in USA.
After reading this thread I called Bank of America customer service (in USA), and they had no idea what I was talking about.
Oct 19th, 2004, 09:41 AM
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Customer service reps rarely have a clue as to anything other than what their computer tells them to say and if you ask a question not in the data base, you won't get an answer. And besides you're probably talking to somebody in India anyway....
Jan 2nd, 2005, 02:40 AM
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Just to pick up on this thread once again and provide some definitive answers as to how this will work in the UK, as provided by today's Sunday Times.
The banks and Credit Card issuers have changed their rules which affects the way that fraudulent usage of cards are refunded.
From Jan 1st 2005, retailers must use chip and pin or reimburse credit card issuers for any fraudulent transactions.
The report goes on to say that retailers will accept both signatures or pin numbers for only a limited period but that by the end of this year it is expected that most places will require a pin.
Even US financial institutions such as Citibank recognise that cards need this new technology and are issuing cards with chips in Europe (like mine).
Most of the developed world will use Chip and PIN by 2006 with Canada adopting it by 2010. This will leave the USA as the only major area without and implementation plan (source http://www.chip-and-pin.info/when.asp).
I have asked a few tourist attractions in the UK over the last few months, all said that by the end of 2005 they will no longer accept cards without chips and that US citizens without chip cards would not be able to use their cards at source as the majority of machines being purchased do not have a magnetic swipe facility. They will still be able to take advances from ATM's and can use their cards by telephone if they quote their security code at the back of the card.
The above are facts and not opinion.
The banks and Credit Card issuers have changed their rules which affects the way that fraudulent usage of cards are refunded.
From Jan 1st 2005, retailers must use chip and pin or reimburse credit card issuers for any fraudulent transactions.
The report goes on to say that retailers will accept both signatures or pin numbers for only a limited period but that by the end of this year it is expected that most places will require a pin.
Even US financial institutions such as Citibank recognise that cards need this new technology and are issuing cards with chips in Europe (like mine).
Most of the developed world will use Chip and PIN by 2006 with Canada adopting it by 2010. This will leave the USA as the only major area without and implementation plan (source http://www.chip-and-pin.info/when.asp).
I have asked a few tourist attractions in the UK over the last few months, all said that by the end of 2005 they will no longer accept cards without chips and that US citizens without chip cards would not be able to use their cards at source as the majority of machines being purchased do not have a magnetic swipe facility. They will still be able to take advances from ATM's and can use their cards by telephone if they quote their security code at the back of the card.
The above are facts and not opinion.
Jan 2nd, 2005, 03:09 AM
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Hi
the situation is more complicated. It does not just have an impact on countries who are backward with the incorporation of chips.
France has had chips for 20 years. Initially the machines wouldn't accept non chip cards, and businesses had to resort to the old slider processing. After that machines recognised different cards and produced a slip for signature.
Now I find that my French chipped card is not recognised in the new UK set up and I have to sign So the chips are not all internationally recognised.
Maybe even chipped foreign cards will not work after end 2005 ? I'm sure a solution will be found.
And just another card + number problem. Owners of Swedish cards have to provide a govt supplied personal id number - legitimation. Foreigners are required to provide passport.
Peter
the situation is more complicated. It does not just have an impact on countries who are backward with the incorporation of chips.
France has had chips for 20 years. Initially the machines wouldn't accept non chip cards, and businesses had to resort to the old slider processing. After that machines recognised different cards and produced a slip for signature.
Now I find that my French chipped card is not recognised in the new UK set up and I have to sign So the chips are not all internationally recognised.
Maybe even chipped foreign cards will not work after end 2005 ? I'm sure a solution will be found.
And just another card + number problem. Owners of Swedish cards have to provide a govt supplied personal id number - legitimation. Foreigners are required to provide passport.
Peter
Jan 2nd, 2005, 03:45 AM
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Agree Peter.
The shortsighted thing about this issue is that whilst most everyday transactions are unproblematic, the world is a smaller place and there is going to be great difficulty in the tourist service industry. I imagine that hotels will invest in better technology that will allow for the continued swiping of cards as will major London stores (although M&S and Debenhams have intimated that they are going to allow Chip cards only after 2005). But, the sting is that of fraudulent use. My own cards were stolen recently and about £5000 in total was spent on 3 cards. I know of many people who can relate a similar story. In future, these fraudsters would target shops where cards are still being swiped. At the moment all I have to say in a store is "sorry, I don't know my PIN" and they swipe the card. As I see it, most retailers will become extremely suspicious in future if an individual does not know their PIN. This won't be an big problem should the card not have a PIN or the card holder is an obvious tourist, but how many retailers will take a chance? As usual with Tony Blair, it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
The shortsighted thing about this issue is that whilst most everyday transactions are unproblematic, the world is a smaller place and there is going to be great difficulty in the tourist service industry. I imagine that hotels will invest in better technology that will allow for the continued swiping of cards as will major London stores (although M&S and Debenhams have intimated that they are going to allow Chip cards only after 2005). But, the sting is that of fraudulent use. My own cards were stolen recently and about £5000 in total was spent on 3 cards. I know of many people who can relate a similar story. In future, these fraudsters would target shops where cards are still being swiped. At the moment all I have to say in a store is "sorry, I don't know my PIN" and they swipe the card. As I see it, most retailers will become extremely suspicious in future if an individual does not know their PIN. This won't be an big problem should the card not have a PIN or the card holder is an obvious tourist, but how many retailers will take a chance? As usual with Tony Blair, it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Jan 2nd, 2005, 04:19 AM
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Fascinating...
So the US will be backward when it comes to credit card technology just like it is backwards with mobile phone technology as well as retention of imperial measures and the Farenheit thermometer and the use of paper currency for amounts as low as $1....
Serves us right for living in a third world country...
Actually, I have no reason to doubt anything being said but I just don't see it...Americans are a big source of income via the tourist trade...some sort of accommodation will have to be figured out as 2006 approaches and the international credit card companies see this vast loss of income to them...
And my other question is without the card, how will on line shoppes operate?
So the US will be backward when it comes to credit card technology just like it is backwards with mobile phone technology as well as retention of imperial measures and the Farenheit thermometer and the use of paper currency for amounts as low as $1....
Serves us right for living in a third world country...
Actually, I have no reason to doubt anything being said but I just don't see it...Americans are a big source of income via the tourist trade...some sort of accommodation will have to be figured out as 2006 approaches and the international credit card companies see this vast loss of income to them...
And my other question is without the card, how will on line shoppes operate?
Jan 2nd, 2005, 04:59 AM
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Sorry xyz123. The story is in today's Sunday Times. I have no website or online reference as it is printed in an inky old newspaper for which I spent one pounds and forty of our British Pennies buying.
The reference I provided was from a website highlighting who will and won't have Chip technology. I am just quoting what has been written. None of the UK websites I've visited mentions US visitors. I suppose that even though US citizens comprise the biggest individual source of visitors to the UK, it is still only just over 12% which means that 88% of visitors come from elsewhere. London, Stratford, Bath etc will still want to accomodate their mass toursist visitors.
As for on-line shopping, have you tried to order something from the UK recently? It will ask for your 3 figure security code. You can't complete the transaction if you can't supply the information when asked. I'm already finding it exceptionally difficult to use my Diners Card to book hotels as it does not have the standard 16 digit number. This is a US issue card.
The reference I provided was from a website highlighting who will and won't have Chip technology. I am just quoting what has been written. None of the UK websites I've visited mentions US visitors. I suppose that even though US citizens comprise the biggest individual source of visitors to the UK, it is still only just over 12% which means that 88% of visitors come from elsewhere. London, Stratford, Bath etc will still want to accomodate their mass toursist visitors.
As for on-line shopping, have you tried to order something from the UK recently? It will ask for your 3 figure security code. You can't complete the transaction if you can't supply the information when asked. I'm already finding it exceptionally difficult to use my Diners Card to book hotels as it does not have the standard 16 digit number. This is a US issue card.
Jan 2nd, 2005, 05:06 AM
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AR...
I did read the brochure about chip and pin given on this thread...
What is says is that as of 01 January 2005 merchants will become liable for losses when a chip and pin card is used fraudulently. It does not say what happens when a non chip and pin card is used fraudulently.
I stand by my opinion (and it is an opinion) given the size of the American market and the amount of tourist dollars and pounds and euro and Swiss Francs and Yen spent by Americans on holiday, it will be a major major loss for the international credit card companies if Americans in particular and other third world tourists so to speak do not have the modern technology. Personally, I just don't see it (I could be wrong obviously) and that for a while at least, until the Americans get off their collective rear ends and enter the 21st century (and before everybody tries to blow me away I am an American and recognize that in some respects, the US is behind) in chip and pin technology, retailer terminals will still have provisions to accept out of country non chip cards.
JMHO
I did read the brochure about chip and pin given on this thread...
What is says is that as of 01 January 2005 merchants will become liable for losses when a chip and pin card is used fraudulently. It does not say what happens when a non chip and pin card is used fraudulently.
I stand by my opinion (and it is an opinion) given the size of the American market and the amount of tourist dollars and pounds and euro and Swiss Francs and Yen spent by Americans on holiday, it will be a major major loss for the international credit card companies if Americans in particular and other third world tourists so to speak do not have the modern technology. Personally, I just don't see it (I could be wrong obviously) and that for a while at least, until the Americans get off their collective rear ends and enter the 21st century (and before everybody tries to blow me away I am an American and recognize that in some respects, the US is behind) in chip and pin technology, retailer terminals will still have provisions to accept out of country non chip cards.
JMHO
