Sarastro

<i> If the true chip & pin does not have a mag stripe,</i>

The irony here is that chip and PIN cards do have a magnetic strip. If they didn´t, those from the rest of the world would not be able to use their cards when visiting the USA.

EMV technology or the chip and PIN concept has as much to do with the way that their use is implemented by the banks and merchants as it has to do with the card itself.

In chip and PIN countries, a credit card never leaves your sight and is generally never handled by anyone but you. In restaurants, transactions are complete at your table with a mobile device. This too is part of its enhanced security. I find that entering a PIN takes a lot less time than waiting for several copies of an invoice to print and then looking for a pen to sign one of them.

The US is not transferring from magnetic strip/signature to chip and PIN, it is changing from magnetic strip/signature to chip and signature. There are a number of reason why this is so, some of them rather technical but the advantage for travelers is that at least, they will be able to use their credit cards almost anywhere.

Michael

There's no reason why we couldn't have mobile devices here, since theirs accept cards with mag stripes.

Usually the pen is offered with the copies. No wait there.

Both are false arguments. The issue of security has to do with the nature of the chip versus the mag strip, not the interaction between customers and store clerks or restaurant waiters.

xyz123

Like everything else, there is a very good reason in the USA why we don't have the mobile terminals in restaurants and it is called.......money. They are more expensive. I will not allow my credit card out of my sight when dining. I insist on being taken to the secret room where it is done. Of course especially when dining with friends at anything above a fast food place, this is considered as improper behavior on my part. Restaurants should be required to either implement the mobile terminals when accepting credit cards or be required to have the terminal at the door a la Denny's and Red Lobster for two. But then again, in the USA there are those who claim any measures to protect consumers are anti freedom. Oh well.

scrb11

All US cards issued with chip also have mag stripe.

Over time, they'll stop putting mag stripe on the cards.

I have several cards with chip. Initially in other countries the sales clerk try swiping but then the terminals indicate they should use the chip so they insert it into the slot.

dwzemens

This is what American Express tells me, on their Frequently Asked Questions page:

=================================
Q: Are there any situations where I could experience issues using my chip and signature Card?

A: You might experience issues using a chip & signature Card at unmanned terminals but you would have the same type of experience at those terminals with a magnetic stripe Card.
=================================

We're still behind the times in the good old USA.

Sarastro

Well that assumes that said terminals accept magnetic strip cards in the first place and many, if not most, in Europe accept only chipped cards.

universitylad

I used my Chase Marriott rewards visa card while in France last Autumn. It has Chip + Signature technology and it worked well. I did use it at several automated kiosks for the Paris RER from the airport and also to purchase Metro tickets several times. I didn't have to enter a PIN or signature for either transaction and it worked fine. These were small purchases though, probably under 10 euros.

I purchased gasoline once, but I paid cash at a gas station off the Tollway, so I can't say whether it would have worked at a gas station. Overall, I was greatly pleased by it! I can recall having to stand in line to buy train tickets before and it being a hassle. My Delta American Express recently just sent me new card with the same technology.

I'll be headed to Czech Republic, Germany, and Netherlands next month and can report back as well.

It's true that US Merchants rarely look at your signature to compare to your card. Once, while in the UK, I was racing to purchase a ticket and get to a train that was due to leave in a few minutes and just signed my name with a line. Even though my card has a photo of me on it, the clerk was comparing the signature on the back and my line and was going to deny the purchase. It took several minutes to get her to allow me to resign the receipt more slowly and be on my way. I nearly missed my train!

nanabee

Yes, Chase Visa Card is Chip+Pen and European compatable.

You won't need it as I think places will take the old cards, but it is so much easier if you have it. It was so much faster and efficient.

Your bank sounds like they are really behind the times.

tomboy

Chase is behind the times with its signature and pin card.
Utterly useless on French toll roads, and at un-manned gas stations.

Myer

I've had a Chip & PIN Visa card issued by Andrews for several years.

It's a dual swipe and Chip & PIN that defaults to Signature where accepted. I wish it were strictly Chip & PIN but at this time it would make it useless in the U.S.

I've used it in France and it worked exactly as I described above.

I tried to use it in Italy and had problems with it.

Sarastro

<i> I wish it were strictly Chip & PIN but at this time it would make it useless in the U.S.</i>

There is probably not a single credit card issued anywhere in the world that does not have a magnet strip on its back. Europeans would not be able to use their credit cards anywhere in the USA if chip and PIN cards did not have magnetic strips as well.

The Andrews card is a chip and signature card but there are a handful of cards issued in the USA which are chip and PIN, to wit: UNFCU cards, Navy FCU cards, and USAA cards issued before April 2014 are all chip an PIN cards; all are universally accepted in the USA.

Myer

Sarastro,

The Andrews FCU Globe Trekker card is a Chip & PIN card.

Not a Chip & Signature card.

It's programmed to default to signature when the vendor is programmed to accept signature or both.

In France I used it on the Metro in Paris (unmanned) to buy tickets and at train stations (unmanned) in Provence to buy train tickets. No waiting in line.

In the Paris Metro my regular swipe card did not work but my Andrews Chip & PIN card worked but didn't ask for a PIN. Strange.

In train stations I selected where I wanted to go, slid in my card, entered the PIN when requested and the ticket printed.

In the US I use that card once or twice a month just to show a bit of activity so they won't threaten to cancel it.

Unfortunately, a week ago I was checking my account to see if they received my payment and I noticed about $1,000 in fraudulent charges.

All the charges were in a period of the latest 4 days. All charges were under $100. and all were at gas stations (a few were the same station more than once).

I last used the card in Europe 2 years ago so maybe the problem I had in Italy has been resolved. Or maybe not.

Sarastro

<i>It's programmed to default to signature when the vendor is programmed to accept signature or both.</i>

That is the textbook definition of a chip and signature card. All chip and signature cards default to signature as their primary verification method. As of October of this year, almost all US issued credit cards will be this type of card.

I say almost because Diners Club cards, UNFCU Visa, Navy FCU Visas, a few private bank cards and older USAA Mastercards default to PIN as the primary verification method. When you made purchases in France Myer, as you were signing receipts, holders of the cards I have just named, as well as holders of cards issued through European banks, entered their PINs into those little keypads you saw.

<b>The difference between a chip and PIN and a chip and signature card is the card´s default method of acceptance.</b> Just because your card came with a PIN does not mean it is a chip and PIN card. Magnetic strip credit cards have been issued in the USA with PINs for years but it does not mean these are chip and PIN cards either - they do not even have chips.

I really like the Andrews card which functions identically to the PedFed card I carry. Neither of these cards have annual fees or foreign transaction fees. Both are chip and signature cards, but both use PIN acceptance in their verification hierarchy.

Myer

Sarastro,

I won't fight with you. "I have a Chip & Signature Card". Ok?

However, it's a Chip & PIN card. I've walked up to an automated train ticket vending machine, started the buying process, entered the card when requested and then entered the PIN when requested. The ticket was then printed out.

I was never requested to right a signature. Just a PIN. But that a Chip & Signature card. Correct?

The only time it asks for a signature is when the vendor does not accept a PIN or if the vendor accepts both a PIN or signature.

But ok. I have a Chip & Signature card. Ahem.

The difference between a Chip & PIN and Chip & Signature card is that the Chip & Signature card does not have a PIN option.

If it accepts both then it's a Chip & PIN card that is attempting to pacify some vendors and users.

Andrew

One point to remember: almost every US credit card (even without a chip) will give you a "PIN" - but that can be used only for (expensive) cash withdrawal from an ATM machine. Usually, the PIN won't work for making purchases, even if the card has a chip in it.

The Andrews card indeed has a real PIN that can be used for purchases. But if a human being is in any involved in processing your transaction, it reverts to signature, whether there is a PIN terminal there or not. Only if it is not possible to get a signature (say at an automated machine) can you use your PIN.

Michael

<i>I was never requested to right a signature. Just a PIN. But that a Chip & Signature card. Correct?

The only time it asks for a signature is when the vendor does not accept a PIN or if the vendor accepts both a PIN or signature.
</i>

There's a contradiction there. Either you were never requested to sign a slip, or you were when a vendor participated in the transaction; it can't be both.

kerouac

A lot of you do not seem to know that it is actually the card issuer that decides how the card will work, not the machines in Europe. If the issuer decides that no signature or PIN is required in purchases up to 20€, then it will work for all such transactions. Or the amount might be $20 or perhaps $50 which would make the maximum amount different every day in the euro zone according to exchange rate variations. This explains why different American cards work -- or not -- in various situations.

Andrew

I knew...

xyz123

It's not worth arguing but for Americans, there is an easy test. Go into Walmart (and if you're one of those who feel you don't want to give Walmart your business, that's fine but just this once won't be a violation of your conscience), walk over to a cashier, pick out a chocolate bar or a cold soda from the cooler usually found there and pay with your card. If the transaction is completed without asking you for a signature, its primary verification methods signature. (Walmart like many American retailers who realize checking signatures is pretty useless as far as security is concerned, do you think some 16 year old student working as a clerk is really in a position to challenge somebody about a signature does not require signatures on small purchases under $50 something I wish would become standard in other countries). OTOH if you have what for lack of a better term, I would call a "true" chip and pin card, it will request a pin no matter how small the purchase. I'll wager a nickel, if you use the Andrews card, it will not request the pin as its primary verification method is signature on purchases. It does have pin capabilities as do several cards such as Pen FCU, USAA, Barclaycard Arrival+ and some others. The current US cards which are pin primary are listed.

So according to this definition, which we have sort of accepted on the 701 page flyer talk thread on this, is chip and signature primary with pin capabilities not a "true" chip and pin card.

The only problem with this is that there have been some reports, few in number true, that some merchants after you insert a card which is not a "true" chip and pin card such as Andrews, worried about their liability or ill informed have voided the transaction after the message signature required is flashed and there is no way to make the card, if the terminal accepts signature cards, to bypass that and get down to pin verification a lower priority on the cvm list.

Visa as part of its pitch to entice US banks to accept signature verification as priority 1 for whatever the reason has been somewhat more active in spreading the message that such actions on the part of merchants is a violation of their agreements (all valid visa cards must be honored). There haven't been all that many reports of this problem spreading.

Myer

Micahel, Kerouac,

Kerouac is correct.

Michael, I was being sarcastic.