nona1

I'd always follow the local convention on tipping, so I would do the higher tipping in the US. And US visitors should respect the lcoal European customs too.

However, I don't fall for all this 'poor little us, we get rubbish wages, we have to live on our tips, so tip us loads' rubbish though.

Add it up. No waiter is working just on your table. By the time you add all the tables together they are earning plenty, don't worry! People forget that their waiter is also doing other tables.

So that waiter in the story reckons they should have had a $14 tip from those Brits. Ok. Now times that by, what, 8 or 9 tables at least, plus a fast turnaround of an hour in the US 'cos they rush you, and you are looking at around $100 an hour in tips during the main part of the shift.

Likewise, at a pretty cheap informal 'family' type place I go to frequently at home, the waiters are working flat out (it's always busy) on about 12 tables each. And the average tip would be about £5. And the average visit is about 2 hours long. So they get an extra £30 hour in tips.

So I don't shed any tears over the wait staff. Just use your maths and don't fall for it.

nona1

Oh and if you give me rubbish service you don't get a tip, I don't care where I am. I've only done this a handful of times, and it is kinda embarrassing, but if you are rubbish at your job why should I tip you? I wouldn't blame the wait staff for any problems with the actual food, just their part of the visit.

Left someone a 3p tip once (the change) They said thank you all happily, then did a double take, and their face fell...was kind of funny. She had been reaaally dreadful. Maybe next time she won't ignore her customers while she spends ages chatting to a table of her friends, get everyone's drinks orders wrong, forget to bring items, and be so generally slow and useless.

PatrickLondon

>>Maybe next time she won't ignore her customers while she spends ages chatting to a table of her friends, get everyone's drinks orders wrong, forget to bring items, and be so generally slow and useless.<<

That depends on how reflective the person is. If they're really that inconsiderate, the best tip you can give is some "candid friend" advice (leave it in writing if necessary), but who's got the time or the nerve to do that (certainly not most English people)?

zippo

Anyone who relies on an unenforcible local convention for their income is bound to get gypped from time to time and should not think it unfair.
Tipping rates vary across Europe too - it is unrealistic to expect all travelers to keep up with this sillyness.
Anyway any waiter who introduces himself to me has already annoyed me. I am not interested in him or in shamming that I am. Here in the UK it is considered presumptuous to expect others to notice you never mind to force your name on them.
Doesn't this mean I am entitled to tip less in the US? Do they want money for bugging me? Whose peculiar conventions should apply? I thought the customer was always right.

Carlux

What I've never understood in the whole tipping system, is who decided WHO gets the tip. Why should the person who cuts my hair get a tip when the person who repairs my plumbing or fixes the roof doesn't? They are both small businesses employing skilled people who should not have to rely on extra cash from me.

Many years ago when I was still in high school I worked as a cashier in a supermarket - at a very low wage. No one ever tipped me. However, the boys who packed groceries and occasionally took them out to the car for the customer usually got tips - despite being on the same pay scale, and having the advantage of getting away from their job for a few minutes to walk through the parking lot, have a chat with the customer, etc. I stayed at the counter, doing his job and mine, never got tipped.

Now that I live in France where the system seems more sensible, I too don't appreciate people who feel they should be leaving large tips.

Dukey

First of all it sets a procedure that Italians do not want to see happen in their country.

Who doesn't?

The servers?

xyz123

Well cheer up guys...with the collapse of the USD the brain dead man in the White House has helped to produce, there will be

1. Fewer tourists going to Europe.

2. Tourists not so willing to throw their money around.

But cheer up..only 178 days till we rid ourselves of this man is history and perhaps then our economy will recover.

RedStater

I've had occasion where I've refused to leave a tip after having received horribly substandard service.....only to have the server DEMAND one. One of them (a bartender) was so infuriated by my explanation, that a gratuity is only in order when one receives a certain level of service, that I thought he was going to come across the bar at me. He must have been having a bad night!

I don't believe (servers, take note) that a tip is an entitlement, and that it may be withheld if the level of service is truly substandard. I do believe, though, that foreign visitors should research and respect to local customs, same as I do when I'm traveling overseas. The system of server compensation in the US may be flawed, but it is the system, and a tip really is just a part of the price of the meal.

zeppole

>>Percentage of the bill does seem a bit daft, especially as the waiter in the posh restaurant may be paid more anyway.<<

This is the only form of socialism most Americans have ever accepted. It's believed that if you can afford to order the lobster instead of the cabbage soup, your tip should reflect your greater wealth.

Actually, Americans do suburban property taxes the same way. And some luxury car surcharges.

Think of it as a Voluntary Value Added Tax -- VVAT, as in:

"VVAT is this crazy American way of living."

ira

"The man orders Plymouth gin neat. Disgusting. <

That's as far as I bothered to read.

The author is an ass.

emily71

I can see both sides of the story. Having a relative who was a limo driver, his pay was minimal, it was expected by the drivers and limo company that the tips would supplement his salary. His saying was that the richer the customer, the worse the tips.

However, our family also had the unpleasant experience of being chased after by the manager and 2 waiters for only leaving a 15% tip when in the manager's words, 20% is expected. My mother wasn't going to pay, but these men yelled at my father and upset my grandma, so my father just paid the difference and we got the heck outta there! Of course, a letter of complaint was written to the restaurant, family friends were told, and we even wrote a letter to our paper's food critic. Of course, the manager didn't recall the incident.

My belief is that if the waiter makes an effort and/or apologizes if service is slow, then he/she will get a 20% tip. But for mediocre service - 10-15%.

RM67

''they are taking money out of the pockets of the staff''

That comment offends me.

It's the employer who is taking money out of the pockets of staff by not paying said staff a decent wage in the first place. And if he or she can't afford to run a business that pays a decent wage then to me that's not a viable business. Put the cost of the meal up if need be, but make it open and transparent and remove the 'emotional blackmail' factor.

By the way, I'm happy to tip well for good service, but like Nona, if I have very poor service, I won't tip at all.

Michael

Europe is a large area. When in Hungary we were reminded several times that the service charge was not included. I assumed that this was also true in Romania.

On the other hand, some high-end restaurants include the service charge: The French Laundry, The Herb Farm in Seattle--I'm sure others can add to this list.

Restaurants frequently add an automatic 17% service charge to the bill of a party of six or more.

xyz123

You know...I missed something earlier in the thread. It suddenly dawned on me this evening...I went to see a Broadway show this afternoon (Spring Awakening) and then out to dinner at a moderate type restaurant and as the bill arrived...it again only showed the total and I had to backtrack in my mind to figure out the actual cost of the food minus the sales tax upon which the normal 15% tip should be figured (and yes, I don't care what anybodyh says, I was brought up that it was 15% on the pre tax amount and I see no reason why anything has changed)..

In any event, I thought back to the blog which started this thread...and the waiter complained about only getting $7 on a $70 bill...well (I don't know if he said he was from NY) but in NY, there is an 8.375% sales tax on meals...so even though the bill was $70, the amount that should have been tipped on was probably around $64.50 or thereabout and a 15% tip would be about $9.75..so there was a very minor difference between the tip is supposed to be and what the tip was.

It also got me to thinking about London restaurants where I tip..I've been taught 10% if service is not included which is the amount I use...but London restaurant prices include what a 17% VAT or thereabouts which means, on the actual cost of the meal, I'm probably tipping around 15% anyway.

And this nonsense form some here, well let the employers pay a decent wage...guess what, the price would be reflected in the price of the meal so it would all probably come out the same anyway.

So all around, what's the big deal?

nametaken

Wow, what a lot of well travelled snobs have responded to this post. I can asure you that we have never insulted anyone with a small tip for good service in any country we have visited, nor have they run up to us to return the tip. I think some of you are really off base as to the reality of how much people make in the service industry. I also think what other Americans do for good service is none of your business. Please, just go back and read the stuff you have written. I know for sure Europeans, Americans or any other people are Happy to receive a little extra for their services. Go predators, go.

gruezi

Tipping is a personal thing to a great degree. Some do it gladly, others with deep pangs of regret, others try to justify not doing it at all regardless of where they are.

Every several weeks the tipping issue comes up on Fodor's. I have asked some advice here myself on tipping in various countries since I like to do the appropriate thing.

No point in trying to convince anyone of your tipping philosophy since if they don't want to tip they won't.

Usually when I'm not sure, and in a foreign country, I look for a pleasant group of locals having a good time and ask advice. Most are quite willing to help me do the "right" thing and rarely has anyone ever said "don't leave anything" even in a country where service is included such as Switzerland. Most people still like to leave a little something - perhaps 5% - just to say "thanks I had a good time."

I'm from the NYC area where tipping is just part of life so I don't resent it at all.

Oops, guess I just tried to convince you of my tipping philosophy...

gruezi

nametaken

The predators are the people who think they own the forum. They think that because they have homes in France or other countries they know the proper way to visit, the best places to stay etc. and they love to intimidate those of us who are newer to the forum. We are not rubes, and the condesending replies are getting old. We do know how to behave in other countries, and if you chose to do it differently, fine. Some of the inflated egos on the Forum need to take a look at their responses.

zeppole

No, nametaken. I think most of the responses you got were merely respectful corrections of your assumptionas and assertions by people who live in Europe. (Flanneruk is a satirical writer, although his style does take some getting used to.)

I live in Italy and it is hard for me to break the tipping habit, but I have learned that it is not always the right response to the professionals I meet -- or the generous people I meet -- in Europe.

You can imagine how you would react if you did a neighbor a favor in America -- and they handed you money! Taking extra care with your food order or your disabled friend is not to be rewarded with money all the time in Europe. It's hard to explain, but it's true.

American culture, however, puts those who wish to assist you in the economic position of needing your money to pay the rent. (Seldom the case in Italy.) So tipping is really a matter of conscience, to remedy a pretty dismal situation.

zeppole

PS, nametaken:

Again, I don't know if you travel in Italy, but when you return to a restaurant, even if you haven't been a generous tipper, it is customary to greet you and treat you like a treasured friend. You've paid the restaurant the ultimate "tip" -- you came back.

gruezi

Speaking of when in Rome...

....I remember being told in Rome and Venice a few times, "we do expect tips from Americans."

Although I liked both cities, I wasn't as enamored as I was in other areas of Italy where I felt less taken advantage of financially simply because I was American. Even the whole bread charge bugged me a bit - if the bread hadn't been recycled all day, I wouldn't have minded, but I had no intention of eating the stale bread yet I had to pay 4 Euros for it.

Maybe that's how the Brits feel in the US?