alienor

Has anyone taken a senior pass? Seems awfully pricey, although return fare from Rye to London looks to be 50 pounds, ouch!

hetismij

A UK senior rail card is only available if you have a British passport or driving licence.
Or do you mean a Britrail senior pass?

alienor

yes, as I listed in the heading

PalenQ

Well I have had at least 40 first-class BritRail Passes if that is what you are on about - the BritRail Senior Pass which is simply a discounted first class BritRail Pass available for those 60 and over. Same pass as those under 60 pay more for. And yes IMO Britain is one place where there is a tremendous difference between classes - IME second (standard class in the UK) is not only much more cramped but much much much more crowded - perhaps thanks to the deep discounts available at sites like www.nationalrail.co.uk in standard class or whatever but on many trains I take many if not all seats in standard class seem full. Of course this is not the situation on every train all the time.

First class has three seats in the space of four in second class - an isolated pair of seats with a window and an aisle and two seats facing two seats - always with a table in between (unlike second class where tables may be problematic)

Thus more space for luggage - in first class I always have space to put my bags on an adjoining seat - in second class you fend for space in a perhaps already crowded overhead luggage rack.

Now these differences are largely IME on long-distance trains (formerly called Cross Country I believe or Inter City) but not on commuter trains where if there is any first class it may be a few ordinary seats roped off (and often with second class ticket holders IME sitting in them) - but if traveling say London to York, Scotland, Bath, Cornwall, etc then IME the difference between classes is huge (to me reflecting Britain's ballyhooed great class stratification - first class on British trains IMO is amongst the finest in Europe and second class amongst the very worst in Europe.

In first class on trains to places like the Midlands (Virgin) and Scotland first class pass holders even get free food and beverage - on Virgin trains a veritable never-ending feast IMO

The value of a BritRail Pass decreases dramatically if traveling between Nov 1 and end of Feb - so called Off Peak where all passes, even the senior discounted pass is about a further 20% or so reduced. You can compare prices at www.nationalrail.co.uk and if looking for the cheapest way look at the deep discounted (and i think non-changeable and train specific for the deepest discounts but not sure) that should be booked far in advance to secure.

A beauty of a BritRail Pass (and BritRail England Pass, etc to me is that I can literally just show up at any station and hop any train anytime - no dealing with ticket windows, online discount restrictions that may well apply like travel only during off-peak times, etc. But any train anytime and those type of at will tickets often cost a ton as you can see at nationalrail.co.uk.

Anyway you have to be taking more than a few trains for a pass to pay off so do the math at the sites mentioned. BritRail Passes not sold at stations in the UK as Brits cannot use them. For more than you probably want to know about British trains check out these IMO suoperb sites - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com.

In addition to www.nationalrail.co.uk there is also the www.thetrailine.com rival site that gives the panoply of fares for all of Britain's 38 or so independent rail franchises - a BritRail Pass can be used on any regular passenger train in Britain - including airport express trains and overnight trains (though you have to pay a supplement for optional sleeping accommodations.

Alec

<i>A UK senior rail card is only available if you have a British passport or driving licence.</i>

Anyone can buy a Senior Railcard with an ID (must be 60 or over). You only need British passport or driving licence if you want to buy online. Anyone can get it over the counter at a ticket office.

janisj

"<i>yes, as I listed in the heading</i>"

Well, not exactly. Your title says 'British Rail' senior pass - but you seem to be asking about the <u>Britrail</u> pass.

Britrail is a marketing scheme for foreign visitors and really has nothing to do w/ British train companies or senior rail cards.

So - hetismij's had legitimate confusion and your post did need a bit of clarification.

PQ will tell your <i>everything</i> you ever need to know (and then some) about Britrail. But the real question is -- do you need one? How many train trips are ypu planning??

alienor

Aha, sorry, I didn't realize. There was only one British Rail when we lived there in the 80's. I'm really only looking for a few trips up to town from Rye, maybe 6 or 7. Maybe I'm better off just paying the regular fare. Thanks PalenQ, good info, big help.

GeoffHamer

From Rye to London, the quickest route is via Ashford then a high-speed train to London St Pancras. An anytime return fare is £55.30 but the off-peak return (valid on the 0856 and later trains, and on all weekend trains) is £30.30.
www.nationalrail.co.uk
A senior railcard costs £26 and gives a 33% discount off off-peak trains. Six off-peak returns would therefore cost about 6 times £20, plus £26 for the card, or £146.
www.railcard.co.uk

flanneruk

The Senior Railcard also gives you 33% off the daily cap on a linked Oystercard in London. You take it to any central London TfL ticket office, tell them to mark your Oystercard and you're then probably making a further saving.

As a general rule of thumb, anyone planning five or more trips a year into Town from the outer outer suburbs (which is what Rye is) will save money by buying a Senior Railcard and getting it linked to their Oyster (which no-one planning five or more journeys into Town should be without).

PalenQ

I'm really only looking for a few trips up to town from Rye, maybe 6 or 7>

You could also investigate the Days Out of London BritRail Pass that would allow you to just show up at the station and hop any train without any formalities and this pass also includes a return train to Gatwick, Heathrow or Stansted airports outside the validity of the pass. to judge what is more economical you have what Geoff has given:

<A senior railcard costs £26 and gives a 33% discount off off-peak trains. Six off-peak returns would therefore cost about 6 times £20, plus £26 for the card, or £146.> 146 pounds or at about $1.60 to the pound about $240-45

alienor

perfect, the senior railcard, the Ashford train, and the Oystercard sound like just the ticket (pun intended). I'm assuming the Oystercard is for the tube & buses.
Great help, thanks all.

GeoffHamer

The fastest trains from Ashford to London are the high-speed trains to London St Pancras, but slower trains go from Ashford to Charing Cross via London Bridge and Waterloo East. London Bridge is handy for the Tower and the city, while Charing Cross is close to Trafalgar Square and the West End. It may be easier to go that way, rather than getting the tube from St Pancras; it depends where you want to go in London.
There should also be a fare from Rye to London which includes a travelcard. These are available from stations in south east England, and allow unlimited travel within greater London by bus, tube and train. The senior railcard also gives a discount on this fare.

fmpden

ttt

flanneruk

"There should also be a fare from Rye to London which includes a travelcard. "

Geof's now brought in a new variable - which requires specialist advice probably beyond the knowledge of anyone on this board.

There are two ways of organising irregular commuting into London from the outer suburbs. You can buy a train ticket each day, then use your Oystercard to get around town, or you can buy a ticket each day which combines the train fare plus unlimited tube etc travel in London.

The two options are calculated slightly differntly: tube fares fall at 0930 (or is it 0900?), but if you buy a train/tube ticket on a train leaving before 0900 you normally have to pay the peak rate for the whole train/tube - whereas most commuter trains leaving at 0800 get you into London just lsate enough to get offpeak tube fares, and therefore for your Oyster cap to be at the lower level. Senior Railcard discounts apply to both (though not to some very early morning trains)

Which is better for you depends on precisely what you're doing, what time you're leaving Rye and - in your case - whether you're taking a subsonic or supersonic train (which, because they use different London termini, mean different use of the tube)

Your brain's probably hurting at the thought of all this. But, as long as you don't ask the question during the early morning rush hour, the people at the Rye ticket office will know exactly whar's right for you and will take the kind of pleasure in making sure you don't pay too much that you'd have thought was a sign of serious trainspotting geekery (this is not a piece of British irony).

We've done what we can. Now use the expertise the ticket clerks really love showing off to break the monotony of selling the same ticket all day.

PalenQ

Aha, sorry, I didn't realize. There was only one British Rail when we lived there in the 80's. I'm really only looking for a few trips up to town from Rye, maybe 6 or 7.>

Well what flanner won't get into his thick skull is that a railpass could well be the cheapest - like the Days Out of London Pass - which would give you 7 days of unlimited rail travel in SE Eangland, including all of Kent - and any train anytime - no waiting for off-peak travel at a total cost ofg $269 or about $38 a day or about 22 pounds a day and you also get a return ticket good on any airport train like the pricey Heathrow Express.

So if thinking '6 or 7' trips into London from Rye consider what flanner.uk for some weird reason will not acknowledge - that a railpass could not just be cheaper but more convenient - just go to the station and hop any train anytime.

And flanner no doubt will once again lable me some hack of British Rail - well if pointing out a great option that Brits themselves often do not realize is that then I am guilty. And this is not to say that railpasses are nearly always a good deal - but if taking 6 or 7 trips into London from Rye they would seem to be in light of the fare info mentioned above.

GeoffHamer

Why does PalenQ resort to childish insults?
The railpasses he describes are not available to people living in Europe, so we know nothing about them. I live within twenty minutes' walk of a British railway station and travel by train several times every week, so I can offer information based on my knowledge of rail travel. There are many options for buying train tickets and the best option will depend on so many factors.

PalenQ

Your brain's probably hurting at the thought of all this.>

yes all the various off-peak fares, Senior Rail Card, etc but you miss the no-brainer option in this case (but not nearly every case) - a pass which flanner has often called a rip-off and snake oil!

Not only does the pass in this case seem cost-effective but it gives more options - like say taking the train into London and then out to Windsor, Oxford, Cambridge, etc - all on the same 22 pound per day fare. Just think you could take the high-speed new commuter line to St Pancras and then hop over to the adjacent King's Cross station and be in Cambridge in about an hour from there - and taking any train on that line as well. Or take the train from Kent to Waterloo and go out to Windsor or even Salisbury and Stonehenge though that would be a longish day on trains.

PalenQ

The railpasses he describes are not available to people living in Europe, so we know nothing about them>

you may not but flanner.uk sure does because on dozens of occasions where i dare mention the possibility that some kind of BritRail Pass (like the Days Out of London one mentioned above) he inevitably pipes in what a rip-off they are and 'that any sane person would never pay the rip-off prices they cost' and then inevitably labeling me a snake-oil salesman for even bringing them into the picture - as well of as usual being some kind of hack for BritRail, which he continually characterizes as a French-owned company, which it is not - maybe its flanner's antipathy towards all things French that causes him to continue his war against saying anything good about British railpasses - but whatever he has tried to imitate me into not mentioning what I have used annually for decades and always found, for my purposes, a great value. I do not succomb to imtidation nor character assassination that flanner.ul constantly tries. So I will remain just about the sole poster who will bring up railpasses for persons who I think they may benefit - and as always also giving the alternative - the www.nationalrail.co.uk site where all the various fares are clearly laid out and tell folks to do their own research - and keeping in mind that one huge plus of railpasses are you can just hop any train anytime - in Britain that is - just get on = to me and others that is priceless. So Geoff my comments were not aimed at you - you are right locals may not even know of such passes since they cannot be used by residents of the UK - but flanner certainly does after all the times he has said they are a complete rip-off that only snake oil salesmen hawk.

PalenQ

Normally I would strongly advocate first class on British trains and if buying a pass a first-class pass as first class on long-distance trains is so so so much nicer than Standard class, which IME often resembles a crowded Greyhound bus. But in this case - taking commuter trains into London though there is a smattering of first class seating it is often just a few seats and IME they often have 2nd class ticket holders sitting in them - for these type trains first class IMO would be a waste of money for these reasons.

PalenQ

That pass is valid as far from London as Stratford and Bath - just think for 22 pounds you can go round trip from Rye to either of those gems.