I'm about to buy a britrail pass. The trips will each be several hours long. London-Cardiff
Cardiff-Penrith
Penrith-Newcastle
Should I splurge for 1st class? Is there a big difference? Thanks!

Who knows what your priorities are?

But as a rule of thumb:

- if it's your money, and
- if you have to ask if it's worth it
- then buy a standard ticket.

First class just gives you more space and free tea and coffee on some routes. It DOESN'T guarantee a seat if the train's crowded and you're not pre-reserved (standard class reservations are free), and there's no sense of cosseted luxury.

Whichever you choose, go first to the nationalrail.co.uk site, input your travel times and dates then look at the fares. You'll almost certainly find them cheaper *after you've playede around with alternatives to find the best value) than a pass issued by s foreign marketing agency. Do NOT use the fare comparison tool on the Britrail site, which lies about British point to point fares.

Personally I'd never bother with first class. Maybe the seats are a little roomier and they have those little white cloths over the headrest, but that's usually it. Not worth the price difference. Nothing luxurious about it.

One thing I'd do if I had a long journey would be to see if there were a 'quiet carriage'. I reserved a seat on a long trip once and found myself in the 'quiet carriage' - something I'd never heard of before. Mobile phones had to be switched to silent, you weren't allowed to make or take calls, no ipods, no music etc etc...just heavenly peace and quiet. They were quite strict too - one man received a call and moved to the end of the carriage and a member of staff came straight in and made him move into the next carriage to do it.

You are more likely to get a seat on a busy train if you have a first class ticket.

Quiet carriage rules are hit and miss. th last time I was in one one girl made sveral lengthy and loud phone calls. No on said anything to her, although she received a few Nasty Looks she probably didn't notice.

I've ridden British trains for nearly 40 years - hundreds of trains

there is a tremendous difference between 1st and Standard or 2nd class on mainline trains like you will be taking for those long rides

Second class in Britain is often a cattle car (be sure to reserve), often dirty IMO and much smaller seats than on continental trains for some reason

if you're tall or heavy or physically challenged they can be a bitch

there is less room for baggage - not unusual to see folks standing in aisles even

In literally hundreds of first class train rides i have never not seen empty seats and usually plenty of them

I put my luggage in an adjoining seat inevitably

The seats are much larger

You get free tea or coffee and perhaps a snack

But take Virgin Trains you'll get a veritable free meal with booze in their first class

That said first class is much more expensive either with the pass or tickets

the cheap non-changeable non-refundable discounted tickets thru nationalrail.co.uk i think are usually for second class and not first

So if going first class the pass is a much much better deal as cheaper first class is not always available online (please correct me if not so - my impression)

For flully flexible tickets you can use on any train any time just by stepping on the pass for your itinerary is a great great deal - esp first class. I recently went London-Manchester and they said the one way 2nd class fare was 133 pounds or $260 - almost pays for the pass itself

depends whether you want flexibility or not - anyway easy to compare prices, etc. at nationalrail.co.uk

I always refer folks pondering passes and seeking answers to questions and a lot of good info to www.ricksteves.com and esp www.budgeteuropetravel.com - Byron there is a real British rail expert from years of experience.

Yes passes may not usually be the cheapest way if you want to pre-book with all the restrictions but will be if you want flexibility.

Passes, however for families and groups may be best because of

Party Pass - 3rd thru 9th travelers on one pass pay 50% of what the first two adults pay

Family Pass - kids under 16 get free passes to match the ones the parent(s) buys
for perhaps elusive highly restricted non refundable trains you book weeks in advance

I don't think it worth getting first class tickets, but reserving a seat is a must for a long trip.

only in 2nd class do you need to reserve

in hundreds of first class train trips i've never never not seen empty seats - often many

a value of first class is indeed you need only show up and you will find empty seats in first class but could be standing in 2nd class

whether it's worth it or not pricewise depends on whether the passenger can afford it or not of course but there is a VAST difference IME.

I would definitely go for the 1st class. Is usually isn't significantly more and I do believe there is a difference. If you can spend the money, do so. It will just make your travels so much more comfortable.

Part of your route between Cardiff to Penrith and Penrith-Newcastle have standard class only.

standard class only trains IME are often the pitts

often seriously overcrowded and just a few cars long

avoid them if possible

very few trains do not have first class IME

<Part of your route between Cardiff to Penrith>

I think that may be wrong - this is the West Coast mainline and most all those trains should have first class it seems and for such a long journey well worth the extra money IMO

Yes the Carlisle to Newcastle sideline train is all 2nd class

PalenQ,
according to the National rail site it states the trains from Cardiff to Penrith North Lake is standard class only to Crewe. This is on the 8:50 and 9:50 trains on Arriva wales train. Perhaps this is old information or there is another train company that has 1st class.

The only time I've ever had a problem getting a seat is during rush hour.

roger - looking in the Thomas Cook confirms what you say about Cardiff to Crewe

I thought for sure there would be some Cardiff-West Coast Main thru service but wrong.

In light of that and the line to Newcastle means a first-class pass would be a waste of money if there is little first class to use as they does indeed appear to be

sorry for my mistake and thanks for your correction

<Whichever you choose, go first to the nationalrail.co.uk site, input your travel times and dates then look at the fares. You'll almost certainly find them cheaper *after you've played around with alternatives to find the best value) than a pass issued by s foreign marketing agency. Do NOT use the fare comparison tool on the Britrail site, which lies about British point to point fares.>

Though usually flaneur is spot on about such things this time he's comparing apples to oranges

comparing the worth of a pass versus online discounts that are severely restricted or even regular tickets misses the point of a pass all together

You don't compare the pass with the cheapest online tickets as the pass provides fully flexible use of any train anytime - so you should compare the pass from the foreign marketing company (actually UK trains get most of the money from the pass, which is marketed abroad) with fully flexible tickets - like the 133 pound one way 2nd class fare London to Manchester - $260 and you can buy a 4-day England railpass for $209 (and if three or more they pay only 50% of that and in winter) everyone pays 25% less - meaning about $150 for 4-straight days; (folks under 26 pay just $167 for the 4-day)

so adults pay about $35/day or 17 pounds a day - hard to even beat that i believe with the cheapest fares on nationalrail.co.uk and if you do it would not be by much and you have no flexibility, etc.; retrieving the tricket, ordering, etc.

kids under 16 get free passes

So though i agree with flaneur's overall take that nationalrail.co.uk may be the cheaper way to go rather than a pass for many - i would not so blanketdly say so. Especially for the OP's itinerary. But sometimes indeed the pass could be cheaper.