virginia

Kris, are you still reading after all of this??!! I can't believe I am even entering into this so-called "dialogue", but I can't seem to control myself. <BR>I don't even have children, never did, don't plan to. <BR>But I say to Kris and other parents, definitely take your children traveling with you if you want to, and I hope you have great vacations. (And ignore the whiners!) I am always impressed with my friends who can take their children traveling, since I know that I could not handle it. <BR>First of all, guess what--Italians have children too! And, they even take them out in public, to restaurants and museums and so forth! I saw children out at a piazza at 11 pm watching a dance performance. There was a crying Italian child next to us in a restaurant. It's part of life. So the rest of us travelers are going to encounter children everywhere even if other travelers don't bring your kids on vacation. <BR>I am just back from Italy and my friends and I spent a delightful hour in a cafe watching an adorable Italian girl and her grandma out for a gelato, including feeding her doll some gelato. Yes, eventually the child went into meltdown, but by then we had already enjoyed our time watching this charming scene and I will remember it always as part of my trip. <BR>Second, there are loud, obnoxious adults everywhere, too. It's difficult to avoid them. We spent an interminable lunch hearing a loud rude American man (I am American, so I can say this), who we could not avoid hearing from the other end of the room because of his booming voice and self-assured attitude that whatever he was expounding on was important to everyone. Even his dining companions couldn't get a word in edgewise. (Even worse, it was clear to me that he was from my neighborhood in NYC!) <BR>So bring your child and have fun and great memories! <BR>

Paule

Well, by now, I'm sure you have decided whether or not to take your daughter on your trip-- I hope that you'll let us know what you've decided. For the trip that you describe, I think you would be better off not bringing her. While Italy is a country that loves children, the vacation that you describe-- a very urban experience-- would be, I think difficult to manage. I was in Rome and Florence in my last 2 trips, and I found them wonderful-- but very physically exhausting. Cars and motorcycles careen down streets, and it took a while to feel comfortable just crossing streets. I'd feel VERY nervous with a stroller. Other considerations-- dinner, in general, begins much later than our American norms; even finding a low-keyed restaurant, you won't be eating before 7:30pm. <BR>On the other hand, a wonderful vacation would be to rent for a week or 2; maybe 2 separate locations, in smaller, less urban environments, and it could be a wonderful way of travelling.

Notadoc

I am surprised that of all the postings, nobody mentioned about the health aspects of long distance travelling may have on a child. I read from a report recently saying that every four hours you spend in an aircraft is equivalent to one X-ray test, so how many X-ray tests do you want to subject your kid to? As we all know that the air within the aircraft does not circulate very well, all sort of germs flying around, very young children are more vulnerable to them than adults. Do you really want to expose your one year old to such risk, Kris?

me

Notadoc, its people like you that will end up never traveling, and staying in the same place forever without any exposure. You're subject to germs when you're in an office, when you touch the handle of a door, etc! Children have great immune systems - that's something I learned in Biology. <BR>I think its great for Kris to expose her child to culture. She'll find it more beneficial in the future. Take the kids..dont leave them behind. Go ahead Kris!!!

kim

So, Kris, how did it go? Did you, or could you, post a recap of your trip experience?

Observer

Hmmm, I thought there were already kids in Europe. You know, the European kids?

Linda

Kris- just got back from Italy-Tuscany(villa w/a pool for 2wks) and Venice for 3 days. We went w/our 3 kids 11,9 and an 18mo. old. We all had a fantastic time!! You will need a carriage- an umbrella stroller that reclines(for late nights or naps) some kind of travel highchair(there are really none in Italy!!!!) and some favorite snacks. We brought some hot cereal for some mornings that we just had italian bread and jam for breakfast in Venice. Have fun and don't listen to negative posts about children. How stupid it's like telling italians not to bring their kids to America! <BR> Of course just like here there are rest. that you would not bring your kids-they'd have to be saved for another trip a few years down the road. <BR> The post about the baby moniter was interesting- We stayed in Venice at Hotel Bernardi-Semenzato Rm #1 and 2(huge,nice and very clean!) and the desk clerk told us about a couple who put the baby to bed and were bringing the moniter out to eat w/them. He called the police on them and they were told they were not allowed to do that. I really didn't think that sounded like a good idea as well. <BR>Go and have fun!! Even out 7 hour plane ride went very very well!!!

Surlok

Just a question: why some of you, instead of contributing with some wise advise, and your experience, to help Kris out, react with rage and judgments towards her ( or Beth Y, or Sandy)? <BR> <BR>It always amazes me when I read some posts here. What's your <BR>problem, people, that makes you attack others that think of doing something different than what you would? Instead of wise words of advise, I'm often reading bitter critics, as if the fact that parents who intend, or did already take their kids with them on their travels offends and threatens some of you... <BR> <BR>How the heck you know whether the experience is or not adding <BR>something to these kids, how do you know that by keeping their routine home, apart from their parents, they would be better than traveling with them, how can you know? You might imagine, or guess, or gather, but you're not experts, or children psychologists, doctors, neurologists, or professors who are studying the subject in depth, are you? What are your statements based on? <BR> <BR>Or are you so selfish that you can't give up a front seat on a plane, or can't stand a baby crying, or bear another kid playing close to you? <BR>And is this reasoning strong enough to make you want the kids and babies to stay home, away from planes, Europe and mostly you? Come on, move on, learn how to enjoy yourselves, despite some inconveniences.. You don't think that you can control the world, or that Europe belongs to you, do you? <BR> <BR>Now, Kris, take your one year old with you to Rome. I've done this a month ago, with both of my grand kids, six months and two and a half years old. I chose a hotel close to Villa Borghese, because I wanted them to have a park nearby, where they could play and have some fresh air. We stayed at the Aldrovandi Palace, on the northern section of Villa Borghese, in a neighborhood called Parioli. It's a little far from the touristic sites, but the hotel has a free shuttle running from/to the Hotel to the historic center of Rome. And guess what, after my daughter/husband/grand kids left ( I stayed two more days then they did), there was a couple with a ten years old boy, and one year old twins staying there, too. I met them at the hotel restaurant, which, by the way, is excellent, and whose attendance is mostly of locals, and they didn't annoy anyone there. <BR> <BR>Good luck, Kris, and go ahead with your trip plan. <BR> <BR>Surlok

Mónica

Have you ever thought that we Europeans also have children? Even if you wnat an "adult vacation", you will obviously find local children. So, why not take yours? Only, you should avoid her being a nuissance for everybody. This is a good way of teaching her different cultures and respect for everybody. she will not remember many things, but the values remain.

giannetta

Just go for it! The Italians love children and are very accommodating so you'll treat her the way you do at home except you won't be home - she'll nap in her stroller and taste your ice creams and you can spend time in the huge park (Villa Borghese) where I believe there is a children's playground - at least there are no cars so she can run around safely. Have fun!

MFNYC

I think it's a bit late to offer advice to the OP. This post is over 7 years old, the 1 year old is now 8!

Christina

So a perfect time to finally go!

I thought some of these posts were funny -- about how you can tell a one-year old about other cultures, and respect for others. yeah right That recent article on Italy says one reason old people carry on about children so much is because there aren't very many in Italy any more. Reminds me of that sci-fi movie which was good but disturbing -- Children of Men.

wanderer1

At the risk of being flamed, I will respond to this very old post, as someone asked WHY people are so against adults bring their kids on trips.

I would ask WHY you would consider it?

Was it because of the reasons the first poster gave -

1) Can't find a babysitter at home for 2 weeks
2) Can't (afford?) to bring the nanny on the trip?
3) Can't (?won't) cut the vacation from one week to two?

My question, after I saw what I saw my last trip, is it separation anxiety or are you truly thinking you are benefiting a toddler by bringing them on a trip that exhausts adults? Whose interests are at stake here. I'm sorry, but when you have children, you must realize - on SOME level - that your life will change. Wait until they are 8 or 9 or 10 and can marvel at what they are seeing and can behave.

Babies scream and toddles misbehave. Not their fault, it's their age. Problem is everyone else within earshot pays the price.

On our recent trip to Italy, a couple had a young child who ran up and down the isles in the plane and cried and layed on the floor (in the path of the flight attendants) the whole 8 hour trip. I could tell the flight attendants were perturbed, but trying to be professional Giving the parents toys and coloring books for her to try and get her to stay in her seat. The parents thought it was cute.

In Pompeii, on a tour we paid a fair amount for, we listened to a poor baby scream and cough with croup the entire bus ride - about an hour, and the entire time the tour guide was trying to talk and we were trying to listen. It's probably the only time we will get to Pompeii and a lot of what I remember was a screaming baby who shouldn't have been brought there by his parents anyway, Not only was he sick, but will he remember Pompeii? Will this be stored in his brain in some way and drive future interests? I don't think so.

Like it or not, and parents never want to hear this - young children don't belong everywhere.

In Rome last year, we were in a very nice restaurant, late at night, and two couples entered with a combination of 6 kids ages 1 - 6 or so. After about 1/2 hour, the kids had had it, and were running all around the restaurant and screaming. The parents completely ignored them, and the danger they posed to the servers, having to constantly shoo them out of the way. After another 1/2 hour of this, and then one of the fathers got the hint they were disturbing everyone else in the restaurant, so he pulled out a guidebook and started - very loudly - reading them the &quot;story&quot; from it.

All my husband and I wanted was the romantic dinner we thought we were getting when we went to this nice place late at night, and a chance to relax and have quiet time. Instead we got Romper Room.

I don't fault the kids, I fault the parents. Wait until they are older! If you want to go, hire a sitter, leave them with family, and shorten your trip. Don't take them to nice restaurants or museums or places they will (inevitably) disturb others. If you will miss them so much you can't imagine being without them (natural) then stay home or do Disney! There's a time and place for everything,

It reminds me of when I was getting married and we had requested no children at our evening wedding. I wanted a beautiful, quiet, religious ceremony without screaming kids in the background or kids whining because they were bored, or running up and down the aisle.

My sister in law had recently had a baby and said she couldn't get a sitter, and asked if she could bring her then 8-mos old to the wedding, that he was good &quot;most of the time&quot;. Bring him to my wedding because she couldn't get a sitter? Spoil my day when he starts screaming through the ceremony because he's tired? It caused alof of friction, but I held my ground.

She wasn't thinking of me or my wedding experience, she was thinking of herself - &quot;well, I can't/won't get a sitter, so I'll just bring him&quot;. As I said, there are some places young kids just do not belong, and if more parents realized that, there wouldn't be all this negativity. 1) Are you being fair to the child? 2) Are you being fair to others around you? If you can HONESTLY answer that yes, and it is a &quot;child-friendly&quot; place and your child is not acting up, then fine.

Are well-mannered children the exception? Of course not. The Italian family whose apartment we rented a few years ago brought their daughter out for the day with us plus we all enjoyed an early dinner. She was 5 and rode in a stroller when she tired, and at dinner when she got bored, she colored. But never once did I hear her whine or cry or scream. And if she had, I know her parents would have immediately removed her, and not disturbed the other patrons. I do think European children are better behaved or perhaps better parented - the old &quot;children should be seen and not heard thing&quot;.

I don't see that with most Americans. Their kids are running around screaming, crying, raising havoc, being disruptive, and the parents just ignore it. Do they not hear it?

Do people with children not realize that not everyone else thinks their kid's antics are cute, nor do they want to experience kids running up and down museum halls and screaming when they've saved for years to try and experience the peace and quiet of a museum (of which I will say I think Pompeii falls into)?

WannabeinaMontserrat

My kids now 3 &amp; almost 6 are well traveled, &amp; fairly well-behaved. We typically eat in a lot when we travel as I like to cook (particularly in Paris &amp; such) so as not to bother old curmudgeons while they're slurrppping their soup @ dinner. In addition, most dinner times in Europe tend to be past our childrens' bedtimes although we really tend to stick to their schedules when dealing w/naps &amp; such. It has always been my belief that the earlier you teach them, the better travelers they will be later on. My nearly 6 year old still speaks of the Eiffel Tower &amp; the merry-go-rounds of Paris. To think that they won't/don't remember anything, is pure fallacy. There are of course places I would not consider taking my child - weddings would be one, unless they are in it or specifically invited. Sordid places like Las Vegas &amp; anything Disney would be some more.

sashh

Sissy

they are not going to Spain

Kris

Personally I cannot stand kids BUT you are going to Italy. The kids I know are ill mannered brats.

Italian children go out for dinner with their family from being babies.

Take the child. In Italy a child gets you VIP treatment.

Be sensible and considerate - if she has a tantrum in a restaurant go outside - you will probably be followed by a nona with a gelato for bambina.

Re the comments on having a nanny - a child should be a parents' most precious concern. Involving a professional in the life of a child seems perfectly acceptable to me. I take my car to a trained mechanic, i have my hair cut by a trained hairdresser so I am not going to condem someone for employing a professional to look after their child. I think it is a sensible idea, why do we assume parents somehow know what is best for their child with no training?

caroline_edinburgh

It sounds like taking your daughter is non-negotiable; so if you don't want to rethink where you go, I'd say at least go as late as possible to try to avoid it being too hot. I think Pompeii will have many of the same problems as Rome with an infant - *lots* of walking around potentially hot &amp; dusty streets - and Florence too to an extent, just smaller.

jjkbrook

my two cents on this ancient thread.

weve been there and done that quite a number of times in terms of taking small children around italy and UK as well as in US. (this was 20 years ago) Its not very pleasant to tour with them in general, though italians are very accepting of young kids.

Bedtimes dont work with restaurant hours, and young kids dont tolerate the leisurely restaurant meals that italians (and you!) will want. In general we found lunch was a much better meal to eat out than dinner in Italy.

I highly advocate looking for babysitters, childminders, a day care center etc. to give you a core period for touring where you will not have to be pushing a stroller, carrying or dealing with a cranky child or changing diapers in museums, churches etc. We did this with considerable success on our trips.

Finally, apartments are the best option with families, esp little kids. A real home base, where you can put the kid to bed, cook meals, use a refrig wash clothes etc. is infinitely superior to a hotel for this. Staying with kids in a hotel, esp if they need bottles, drinks food etc is fairly sordid.