merriem

Okay, I don't know where you eat, but I have not eaten in any 5 star restaurants with a dog.....

Cindy

Jeff, <BR> <BR>Interesting question, and not overly provocative. <BR> <BR>I think I recall that your little one is six months old. So s/he is really cute, eating food out of jars, gurgling, and drinking a bottle. At that age, I could (and did) take any of my kids to any restaurant. <BR> <BR>Here's your future. Child will be two or three years old. Food will be thrown, water gets spilled, they talk loudly, cry, shout, get up and walk around, stare at people, toss crayons and toys at others, eat sugar packets, and pull on the table cloth. And that is on a good night. On a bad night, one parent must use the "fireman's carry" and take the shrieking tyke out to the sidewalk. One parent eats, while the other walks the child around outside, then they switch roles. If you are doing your job, you'll finish your evening out by getting on your hands and knees to crawl around under the table and pick up the food, toys, napkins and flatware that your child has sprayed around. <BR> <BR>It is true that "well-behaved" kids don't always do this stuff, but when one throws jet lag into the mix, one can never be sure how one's kid will behave. <BR> <BR>I've never seen a dog do any of that.

Jeff

Cindy, I don't have a terrible two, etc., (yet). I look forward to my child's future, though. Anyway, a dog versus a baby? I'll take the baby. Merriem, stars don't mean much to me. Stars are too often the tools of the travel trade. I try to eat where the Parisians eat, in good local restaurants. And yes, the dogs are there. To be frank, the dogs have been well behaved, they don't do the things suggested by Cindy, but.... Anyway, this tangent may be irrelevant, but it was interesting. Thank you.

merriem

To the previous poster. I do not know why you are making comments about stars......We eat in all kinds of places, but that really isn't the issue. Yes, we stay in outstanding hotels, because we like to.....but we may eat in a little local restaurant just as often as a five star. Believe it or not, it all depends on the country and the prices. Okay? Do you understand what my point was? Hope so.

Paula

Take your child with you. We took our 3 year old last year to France and it was a great trip. People everywhere went out of their way to be extra nice to us. <BR>The Europeans seem to love their kids more than Americans do. We are headed to Tuscany next week with her and she is very excited. Because of her many travels she knows and understands geography much more than many 4th graders. But understand that the gourmet meals and long museum trips are out. Save those for another time. You can still enjoy your trip without those things. Good luck. Your daughter will do just fine with you.

Joanna

To all the people complaining about toddlers/childrens' behaviour: no matter what, there are still the local children at European restaurants/museums, etc. so no matter what you say here, there will still be children there, whether or not people like Kris take their kids with them. I have been more annoyed at certain adults' behaviour than that of kids at times.

Sherrie

In direct response to the original question...Rome is a wonderful city and can be easier than other European cities for traveling with a child. I have three older children (7, 10, 14) but have traveled with friends with younger, toddler aged kids. We found Rome to be friendlier as far as kids go. The ancient sites are wheelchair friendly, thus stroller friendly. (Though I would recommend the umbrella style stroller). It can get quite hot, so have plenty of water on hand, although you will find street venders along the way selling all kinds of food and drink. The only places that would be difficult are the catacombs (unless you would be willing to carry her) and upscale restaurants. But there are so many wonderful cafes that have good food, you really won't feel like you are missing much. And of course, if your toddler starts getting restless, stop at one of the numerous gelatoes (ice cream shops). We usually end up eating ice cream a couple times a day when we visit. As you can tell by the variety of responses, there are many people who are concerned when they see a child at their hotel, or sitting next to them in a restaurant, or on a plane. Unfortunately, on a plane we are all captive audiences, but if your child is getting fussy in a restaurant, take her outside for a while, if she's bored siteseeing, get her a snack, or point out one of the hundred cats lounging around some of the ancient ruins. <BR> Rome is an exciting, wonderful city. Enjoy your trip!

Judy

Sorry all, I love children and raised mine. But I really don't think bringing very young babies on a trip to mostly adult venues does anyone any good. Please leave the very little ones with a grandparent or relative! Parents with young children that insist on bringing them everywhere, are being selfish and thoughtless! That is what is wrong with society today, no respect for the rights of others!

Jeff

As discussed above, we just took our then 6 month old to Belgium and the Netherlands. It was great. Things were slower, which was fine. We just kept on his schedule. He had one incident on the plane b/f take-off where he was yelling/crying trying to fight sleep, but it only a lasted a few minutes. One thing I had forgotten is how loud the drone of the plane is. If we had been flying, only the people right around us would have heard him cry. If you go, take a good stroller (for the kid's comfort and yours). I'll be happy to discuss my experiences. I am purposefully refraining from again commenting on some of the more critical posts on this thread (including mine). <BR>

patti

Message: I just returned from Italy. Our flight was delayed on the tarmac for an unbelieable 2 1/2 hours before we were cleared to take-off. That is a story initself! But, during that time a young boy (about 8 years old) drove me crazy (the father slept the entire time). The boy made what I call cappachino type noises (playing with toy figure men) for 2 1/2 hours. He also played with the phone attached to the seat in front of him. The flight was full or I would have changed my seat. Parents just do not think that what their children do may cause problems for those around them. This certainly made a bad situation much worse for me. <BR>

Susan

Kris, YOU ARE YOUR CHILD'S FIRST TEACHER! Take her with you. Show her how important she is to you. Let her experience the sites, smells, and language of this beautiful county. Even though she will be too small to really remember the trip, she will remember being with you and feeling loved and if you take lots of pictures, you can make a memory for her. And, if your little one is lucky enough to be a nursing toddler, things should go very very well.

BG

I have nothing against people taking their children on vacation, if they are well behaved! Some parents seem to think that it is "cute" to allow their children to run around and scream while at a public place. Some parents don't do anything to discipline their children or stop them from "disturbing other people". One on my pet peeve is when parents allow their children to continously kick the back of airplane seats. On a long tiresome flight, this is unfair to other travelers who paid good money for their vacations. Also, restaurants are another issue. Most adults go to nice restaurants to have "adult conversation", not to listen to other people's children cry or scream. Parents, please you are responsible for your children. If your child misbehaves in public and you do not do anything about it, it reflects negatively on YOU!

Linda

I usually do not participate in the sensitive issues on this forum but I must speak on this one. I have come to the conclusion that the new parents of today want to continue with their non-child existences and justify these actions by calling it an educational and/or a total family experience. As a parent myself, I do agree that exposing a child to different things early in life is a wonderful thing. However, can't the European trip (or long flights to wherever) wait until they are at LEAST 5 or 6 years old? No one is telling you to give up living your life BUT being the parent of a young child has its disadvantages. Deal with it...sacrifce is what being a parent is partly about. Don't have children if you don't want to miss out on traveling for a FEW years. As it has been mentioned many times on this forum (and by MANY of us who have experienced parenthood)children are children...not miniature adults eager to experience foreign cultures. A cardboard box with filled with tissue paper can be a cultural experience for most two year olds. I do like children and I am a loving, tolerant and understanding person but do I want to deal with YOUR kids on MY vacation? You may think your child's noise does not bother people but some of us are too polite and/or feel bad for the child to say anything. Just think of the loud obnoxious jerk who rambles on and on and then move it up many octaves and that's what your child's crying sounds like (not the childs fault of course). The point still being, you do (some parents...not all) ruin part of our much anticipated, hard earned and expensive adult trips with crying/loud children (fact of life-babies cry and yell), intrusive strollers (sights are crowded with two legged creatures and you want to squeeze THAT in where?), and your total denial that your baby/child is NOT a nuisance for other travellers. I remember a time (my son's 21 yrs old) when strollers were meant to be folded up and your child was to be held by you when you were not in constant motion. Not Chitty Chitty Bang Bang reincarnated (a movable object that adapts to any atmoshpere)for you to drag your child to ADULT (or a close facsimile..over the age of ??) museums, restaurants, etc. As for the native/local parents, they are NOT in the tourist/crowded areas running their strollers over/into us because they and their 3 year old must see the Mona Lisa. Tourist attractions are always a tight squeeze. <BR>Having your child experience all that life has to offer between the ages of newborn up until the age of 5 years old is ridiculous and your excuse for not wanting to stay home and just BE with your child. I apologize for offending some with my very stronge opinions but I do feel the inconsiderate nature of some parents needs to be addressed since you do infringe upon others.

M.M.

Please end this shooting match.The solution is right before your eyes,upon arrival in Rome stash the little rug rat in an airport locker and go enjoy. Ciao !!

A considerate parent

We have 2 kids .We take them on trips to beaches,Disney and other theme parks but to take them on long flights,stay in hotel rooms,drag them to museums or tourist sites,go to nice restaurants is not fair to them,us or other people who have paid good money for a nice trip.Some of these good people have maybe paid for a sitter to have a nice quiet vacation.Little kids get tired,cranky and impatient and I can understand why. <BR>Some of you I feel are just saying people should be able to take their kids anywhere regardless of anyone.Please think of your child at that age.They probably would rather stay home in their own surroundings even without you.And is it really going to be a nice vacation for you ?

Moana

I am one of those travelers who abhores young children and babies on long distance flights. Do not read any further if you do not want to hear why your baby should stay home. You already show that by hauling the kid on a long distance flight that you could care less about your own child or anyone else except yourself. I must endure your crying, screaming, whining, puking, fowl smelling litter while I'm at my local supermarket or walking around my neighborhood because it is considered appropriate for those places. Why must I endure your spawn when I am seeking a peaceful and no stress holiday which is the reason they call it a vacation? I can understand why you'd want to educate them, but then you run the risk of them being more intelligent than you and therefore, they will despise you anyway, so don't even bother. They probably hate you now for making them suffer through the plane ride, your drudging them through every friggin' museum from here to Timbuktu, and your idiotic drone about what good parents you THINK you are. Since you will pursue your torture against all mankind, may I suggest that you put them in the pet hold area on the airplane. It only requires a mild sedative and it is comfortably climate controlled. A cage is not necassary for all children, but the netted bags may be required by some airlines so a fair amount of stretching room is possible. You then can take the above posters hint and store them in the airport locker and continue your efforts of great parenting. <BR>Your truly, <BR>Dr. Spock <BR>

M.M.

Yeeaaaa, clap,clap,clap. Moana will you marry me?

Topper

All parents of newborns and toddlers should read this topic to receive a dose of reality. <BR>

Whining

Geez, I hope you all are listening to yourselves. Some of you sound a bit crotchety (sp?). Yes, children can be annoying, but believe it or not they are humans, too. Yes, parents should exercise control over their kids and should be criticized if they don't. However, for those of you who somehow expect a European vacation to be child free, perhaps you should consider a more contrived vacation, such as an adults-only cruise and/or resort. Last time I checked, Europeans have children, too. Maybe we forget that as we stay in our tourist hotels in our tourist areas eating at our tourist restaurants with all of the other (adult) US tourists. I guess that explains the woman who had never seen a dog in a Paris restaurant. There is nothing wrong with criticizing irresponsible parents, and not all parents should travel with their children if they refuse to supervise the same. But to criticize all parents who decide to travel w/children is a little shallow, or are you just jealous b/c you did not have the opportunity to travel when your children were young?

Diann

Can you stand one more opinion? I believe young children will do better on vacation if they stay in one place, say a week at a rental house. Children under a year can be good travellers, but past that stage for about the next 8-10 years it can be rather tricky for many of the reasons already cited. My children, now 11 and 16, have taken their first international trips in the last two years, and believe me, I would not have wanted to do it any earlier. Even now, my older child has some difficulty with transitions, jet lag and the like, and I would never force her to have the same schedule I might have with just my husband...I love children and work in the field of early childhood education; however, I believe your marriage will be stronger if you and your husband travel alone at this point! This may not be your case, but in my work I see so many parents pushing themselves much too hard providing wonderful experiences for their children, that their personal relationships suffer. Your children will have plenty of time to experience the world's wonders; why not spend precious time with your mate?