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Berlin - Anti-Smoking Law Ruled Un-Constitutional

Berlin - Anti-Smoking Law Ruled Un-Constitutional

Old Jul 31st, 2008, 06:28 AM
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Berlin - Anti-Smoking Law Ruled Un-Constitutional

In a ruling by Germany's high court no-smoking bans in Berlin's cafes and pubs were ruled illegal and reports had tobacco adicts lighting up right away when the ruling was made public

In part the court's decision was to protect tiny Kneipen (?) or bars as the no-smoking rule had allowed for bars to establish smoking and non-smoking areas but only the larger bars could afford to do this

Other states in a Federal Germany are now re-evaluating their non-smoking rules

A rare backsliding in Europe's march for a smoke-free public places.
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Old Jul 31st, 2008, 06:43 AM
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Smoke free in every building open to the public would have been constitutional, the court said.

Discriminating against small businesses isn't, but because protecting non smokers from 2nd hand smoke is and extremely important goal, the laws remain in effect until the end of 2009. Just a few ßß are void.

Some of those "anti terror laws" will be ruled unconstitutional next, esp. the law that internet providers have to store the info which sites their clients were watching for six months.
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Old Jul 31st, 2008, 06:45 AM
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"backsliding "

Just goes to show what a bloody silly idea written constitutions are.

No good ever came from one, and whoever dreamt them up should have been hanged. Separately.
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Old Jul 31st, 2008, 06:50 AM
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And those of us who have one find that our current Executive Branch can do things that violate even it's basic tenets (wiretapping of citizens without court order, etc.) at will and suffer no consequences

Democratic lawmakers are Quislings that let them do it
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Old Jul 31st, 2008, 07:22 AM
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>>>Just goes to show what a bloody silly idea written constitutions are.<<<

If I read next week in the papers that John Locke's portrait in the hall of Christ Church College will have been vandalised I will know it was you, Flanner.

Amazing, what a half-informed post can trigger.

The German Constitutional Court generally accepted non-smoking laws but decided against laws which granted exceptions from the non-smoking ban. This decision is just the opposite to "a backsliding in Europe's march for a smoke-free public places".
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Old Jul 31st, 2008, 07:22 AM
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The decision is only that youíre allowed to smoke in pubs which have less than 75 square meters, donít sell food, are shown to be smoker pubs and donít allow entry to anyone below 18. For all others, the old anti-smoking laws are still valid.

The law has now to be changed either to make this permanent or to forbid smoking in all places (until now large pubs and restaurants were allowed in some German states to have smoking sections).

In my opinion, itís just good common sense to allow adults to meet in a pub and smoke if they want to. None of the business of anyone to get involved there.
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Old Jul 31st, 2008, 07:28 AM
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John Locke would be more affronted that he was being prayed in aid by someone who can't even get his college right than by some robust contradiction.

No doubt there's an educational establishmebnt called Christ Church College in New Zealand or on the Texan coast. But none in this neck of the woods.
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Old Jul 31st, 2008, 10:54 AM
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Oh, traveller, please let's ignore that troll. Not worth our time.
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Old Aug 1st, 2008, 03:50 AM
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www.chch.ox.ac.uk
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Old Aug 1st, 2008, 07:12 AM
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Not sure if John Locke ever advocated a written constitution(?)
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Old Aug 1st, 2008, 07:14 AM
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Just goes to show what a bloody silly idea written constitutions are.

No good ever came from one


except to provide chitter chatter for people in failed "empires" who got their buts whipped by a bunch of scallys hiding behind trees
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Old Aug 1st, 2008, 07:27 AM
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Thank God here in the U.S., unlike Germany, we happily put mom and pop shops out of business with well-meaning meddlesome laws.

After all, losing THEIR life savings doesn't affect me, but allowing them to choose which customers to serve and how is impossible to bear.

Let's just hope Congress doesn't decide to "help" small business the way they they "helped" the small farmer.
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Old Aug 1st, 2008, 07:51 AM
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Small business success in Germany is more due to restricted shopping hours of big box stores - like not opening on Sundays

and i'll wager the U.S. has more small businesses per capita in spite of that than Germany does

like on the other thread small business owners complain that a high minimum wage preclues small businesses from making it

now you are saying that in Germany small businesses are thriving - how can this be with a high minimum wage and mandated benefits

having it both ways?
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Old Aug 1st, 2008, 06:15 PM
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The article notes that Oktorberfest were specifically exempted from the no-smoking laws. So puff away on those cigars at will!
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Old Aug 2nd, 2008, 01:34 AM
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Thank God here in the U.S., unlike Germany, we happily put mom and pop shops out of business with well-meaning meddlesome laws.

Actually, you have it backwards. Many of the US laws ban smoking completely - there is no advantage given to the small or large business. The playing field is level.

except to provide chitter chatter for people in failed "empires" who got their buts whipped by a bunch of scallys hiding behind trees

And it happened twice. I agree it is pretty funny to hear the denigration of written constitutions coming from countries that have seen their economic, political, and military power decrease dramatically, relative to those that have them.
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Old Aug 4th, 2008, 11:52 AM
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yes tgourmet - it's rather pathetic seeing Brits here crowing about their country and how much better it is than anyone else

rather sad delusions of grandeur IMO - especially since these types rarely look at their own country.

There have been serious discussions about the UK needing a written constitution - Gordon Brown meme i believe floated the idea recently

if no written document how can you guarantee basic rights - depend on the good will of the judiciary or the Queen, i guess who is the ultimate authority, which also says something very disturbing about the U.K.
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Old Aug 4th, 2008, 11:59 AM
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Touche Traveler!

b-(
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