We've tried to stay in different Paris neighborhoods each time we've visited, and this time, we are going to stay in the 7th.

I fear "The Curse of Rick Steves" when we try to choose restaurants. Which restaurants there should we avoid, and which 7th restos do you think we should try?

How does RS ruin a restaurant?

Well, I don't know about ruin but when RS recommends restaurants in his books the tourists move in and the locals seem to move out. I've eaten at a couple of RS recommended restaurants in Florence and I wouldn't call either of them great, and they were all filled with "Rick Stevians"... at one restaurant we were sitting between two American couples, and all three of us read his books. I'm not critizing him or his suggestions, but I wonder if the food quality goes down if the restaurant owners start catering to the tourist crowd instead of the local crowd?

I just stayed in the 7th but I'm the wrong person to answer. DH and I are extremely picky eaters so we avoided most restaurants that did not have pizza or Italian on their menu. Sad but true.

Tracy

I think it may be fair to say that RS "ruined" the Café du Marché in the 7th, but it was never that great to begin with (like a lot of the restaurants he recommends).

There are still plenty of great restaurants in the 7me - Le Florimond, La Fontaine de Mars, Le Bistro du 7me, Auberge de Bressane, d'Chez Eux, to name a few.

Read www.jack-travel.com and see if you can find some that don't sound like RS recs... Of course, you aren't limited to dining within the 7th anyway.

I always questioned Rick's food choices in the first place. After all, when you get the Munchies after lighting up a couple doobies with the NORML crowd, doesn't any place seem great?

Has RS ruined Le Clos des Gourmets? I enjoyed it very much, and not one tourist (but us) in sight! 16, av Rapp.

The one lunch we had in a corner cafe, after strolling Rue Cler, I am happy to report I did not see a single RickSteves guidebook clutching tourist, as I had been lead to expect.

I thought the Cafe du Marche was unremarkable when I went a couple of years ago...not only was the food awfully bland, but there were so many Rick Stevers there it was a bit laughable. When we went back in September we gave it another try since we were fresh off the plane and wanted a quick meal. Everyone who had the steak tartare got food poisoning -- but then I wonder if it was just their tummies being prepared for a nice big lump of raw meat right after a 12-hour expeditionary flight. Regardless, I won't go back there.

I did find one nice place in the 7th that became a big favorite this fall -- it does have an English speaking host/cook, but I loved Phillippe's place "La Varangue" I think it was...here's my restaurant review:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4je7&fid=2

I'm not a big planner at the restaurant scene. I tend to want to eat when and where I get hungry, and just look at the menus and the restaurant in general to judge if it looks good. I don't consider myself "high maintenance" when it comes to food -- I figure the more I pay the better it should be, that's about it.

Also -- The bar/cafe at the corner of Rue Cler and Rue Granelle had no tourists after a certain hour, and it has been spared the RS recommendation, so we enjoyed just being able to blend with the real locals after hours.

Happy travels.

Jules

You are probably aware that there is a marker ("point zero&quot in front of Notre Dame from which all distances are measured. I think that the RS point zero is the front door of the Grand Hotel Leveque on Rue Cler. The closer you are to that point, the more the restaurants will be populated by Stevesers. Fortunately, the progression seems to be geometric, so if restaurant B is twice as far from point zero as restaurant A, it will only have 1/4 as many Stevesers. Apparently Rick's people don't like to go very far. So, for example, Le Florimond is packed with his crew, but Bistrot de Breteuil has hardly any.

Having said that, Le Florimond is still darn good. I just wish the clients would not plunk their RS books down right on the table. On a recent dinner there, two 20-somethings from Wisconsin showed up at about 9:30, with his book and their suitcases. They had just hit town and said they would worry about finding a place to stay after dinner. At least they had their priorities straight!

In keeping with the spirit of the "new" Fodor's travel talk, it doesn't seem fair that posters should be allowed to disparage Rick Steves any longer. There are people here (or used to be) who don't hate Rick, and they may find these posts offensive.

I am not a Le Florimond fan; the menu simply doesn't appeal to me and hearing that it's an RS outpost doesn't help. I do, however, like the Italian restaurant, Lei, which is next door. Modern, attractive (you can see photos and menu on www.bestrestaurantsparis.com). I've eaten there a few times and have always had the tagliata and always been happy with it, also with their tasty desserts, wine selection and excellent coffee.
My other favorite in the 7th is Kniaz Igor, a Russian-French spot popular with Russian expats, journalists, etc. Best to go fairly late and enjoy the live music and festive atmosphere (also best with a group of 4 or more).

If you really want to get away from the RS haunts of Paris, hop on over to the 16th. So far, RS has barely put more than a toe into that arrondissement, which is full of good, nontouristy cafes and restaurants in all price ranges.

FYI, re the www.jack-travel.com recommendation. It's nicely done but the Paris restaurant section hasn't been updated since 2002 (he also has a Belgium section which dates back to to early 2001), so would take his recs with a large grain of salt. For example, he recommends Chartier, a restaurant that several Fodorites recently said served them their worst meal in Paris.

<<it doesn't seem fair that posters should be allowed to disparage Rick Steves any longer. There are people here (or used to be) who don't hate Rick, and they may find these posts offensive>>

WOW! Is that what we've been reduced to? Hmmmmm, let me see, then, I guess I can just stop posting altogether and tell everyone here that every European country, every European guidebook, every European guru, every European train, evey European airline, every European hotel, every European restaurant, every European café, every European market, every European museum, every European person, and every European thing of any kind I've ever encountered has been just swell and I have nothing negative to say about any of it.

I would hate to think that anyone might be offended because I didn't like someone or something related to Europe.

Following that logic (re can't have any opinions), people who DON'T like Rick Steves should be "offended" because others do like him, so those who like him shouldn't be allowed to say they like him. This makes no sense. Was this supposed to be a joke or something?

If anyone gets offended because someone in the world has a different opinion than they do about something, they will have to get off the internet, stop reading the paper, stop watching TV, and stay home and talk to themself.

Lots of people have different opinions than I do about all kinds of things on Fodors, and it doesn't offend me in the slightest. I don't expect everyone to value things the same way I do or like the same things. Rick Steves, for example -- I don't like his books, but am not offended when others do. As for the restaurants, I don't know that area well as I've only eaten in a couple places that I wouldn't regard as restaurants to seek out. But there are so many good restaurants in the 7th, just read several guidebooks for some alternatives (Cheap Eats in Paris, P. Wells, etc.). I guess if you have a Rick Steves book, all you have to do is then check his book to make sure it isn't listed.

StCirq, you are certainly correct and I hope that we have not been reduced to that. But lots of things don't seem fair here anymore. I guess I'm just sad about recent events. I apologize for bringing it up.

Annalise, I knew you were joking, so don't worry.

And just in case there are any Rick Steves fans out there who COULD be offended, I for one totally enjoyed his notes for the Lady and the Unicorn Tapestry. I expect to see tapestries with tourists; I just don't always want to eat with them.

Christina, I used to live by Cheap Eats, but on our last trip, I found so many changes that I felt I should have left my battered, underlined copy at home. There are no recent editions that I can find. I believe the last edition was 1998 (the one I have); Great Eats is 1999. I can't find a new Patricia Wells either. I have an updated Zagats, but as you know, Zagats has a limited approach in describing a restaurant.

But I am really pleased for the information that's coming my way on this thread. Keep it coming. I'm taking notes!

You get both good and bad comments about Rick Steves' recommendations because there are visitors who either like or dislike them. That's fair. I suppose it's a fact that loads of tourists who read his books are patronizing the restaurants he recommends and many times this overload can make service and food indifferent. The people who have frequented these same places before Rick Steves wrote about them can attest to the changes and perhaps the changes are really due to coincidence but they are more likely due to being overrun with RS followers. His sightseeing comments such as the one about the tapestry are allright because one doesn't eat tapestries. Restaurant recommendations are another story.

Thanks, Amelia, for getting the joke, but I realize that it was lame and that I failed miserably. A lot of us are on edge, and now isn't the time to try to be funny.

I would like to have Rick's job, but I have to say that I'm not particularly a fan. I think the only restaurant recommendation of Rick's that I have tried was in Edinburgh and it was just OK and very touristy.

You know, you can just walk down a busy street in Paris, look for a cozy-looking restaurant with a lot of locals inside, and try it, and usually the food will be pretty good, especially compared to what you usually find in the U.S.

If you go where Saint Steeves points you, don't set your expectations too high, and prepare to spend the evening listening to Americans talk.

Amelia, I asked Patricia Wells about the updates. She says she updates after several years because there are so many opening and closings, so it's impossible to do it yearly.