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All Fodorites to call AA to complain immediately about $15 baggage hike

All Fodorites to call AA to complain immediately about $15 baggage hike

Old May 22nd, 2008, 05:23 PM
  #41  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Take a look at this website to see how many airlines have gone defunct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_airlines

This gives a list of US airlines bankruptcies since 9/11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...e_bankruptcies

American is the only major, traditional US airline that hasn't been thru bankrupcy court.

US airlines collectively have lost money in 5 or the 7 years since 9/11. After this year it will be 6 of 8.

Moan all you like but airfares will rise, there will be fewer flights, planes will be more crowded, flights will take longer in order to save fuel, FF seats will be more difficult to get, there will be more stringent regulation of baggage size and weight.

Airlines will make a choice whether to up ticket prices for everyone or to minimize overall increases and add fees for individual services. I'd prefer the latter.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 06:53 PM
  #42  
 
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So they up the ticket fee instead for everybody. Let the big bag toters pay.


It reminds me of a man with whom I once worked. He was fussy about his dress shirts. (This was before casual Fridays) He was also cheap. So he took his shirts to a Chinese laundry that was slightly cheaper than the other laundries around the area.

One day he did not like the way his collars looked. He complained to the Chinese proprietor.

The elderly gentleman held up both hands, palms up, shrugged his shoulders and said simply
No like, no bring.

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Old May 22nd, 2008, 07:03 PM
  #43  
 
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Question..

International flights are immune from this hideous fee...you are doing say LAX-JFK-LHR...and you check your bag through to LHR...do you pay????

You of course are going to see more and more people trying to sneak over sized things through to the gate area where the gate agent will say it has to be checked...will they collect at that point?

And of course, then there is the inevitable annoucement, that I ignore, telling me to put my smaller objects on the floor in front of me so that people who bring stuff on the flight that should be checked have run in my overhead space.

Screw them.

(BTW I'm immune as I am AA gold...and inevitably board in group 1 so I should have no trouble finding space for my regular sized carryons.)
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 09:29 PM
  #44  
 
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International flights are immune from this hideous fee...you are doing say LAX-JFK-LHR...and you check your bag through to LHR...do you pay????

No.

You of course are going to see more and more people trying to sneak over sized things through to the gate area where the gate agent will say it has to be checked...will they collect at that point?

Probably. My guess is that they will not slow down boarding but instead will make a note on your PNR (reservation) that you owe AA $15 (or $25 if you've already checked one) and ultimately a bill will be forthcoming. Coupled with staff reductions, I think it's things like these that will ultimately make them rescind this fee. Too hard to implement when pax don't know ahead how many bags they'll be checking, or else are falsely optimistic about carry-ons, with fee-collecting and policing falling to station staff and cabin crew, who will not be highly motivated in the face of confused, angry and delayed pax.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 10:23 PM
  #45  
 
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For crying out loud, get a bloody grip the lot of you.

Oil's going through the roof - mostly because the 5% of the world's population who are American guzzle up a quarter of it, and then have the bare-faced cheek to blame the poor Chinese.

Higher oil prices mean real poverty and misery for people who can't afford to buy a litre of kerosene to cook their rice with. Like the Bangladeshis, whose products YOU slap huge import duties on (The US Treasury makes more in tax on a Bangladeshi shirt than the poor sod who made it)

At the present rate, you won't have an airline industry by the end of the year. And what are you all doing?

Whining about a bloody luggage charge like a three year old who's not allowed enough sweets.

There IS a simple solution. Stop stealing the world's oil. Put a proper tax on it.

And get off your bums and do something about the problem, rather than sitting around snivelling you're having to pay the economic cost of an absurdly self-indulgent luxury,
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 10:27 PM
  #46  
lyb
 
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According to their website "luggage update", which I just looked at, it says that the first piece of luggage is free and the second piece is $25...my problem with this is that you can't carry liquids on the plane, such as shampoo, the basic toileteries, and now, god forbid if you want to have luggage, they'll charge you! I feel like next you'll have to pay to use the toilets...and hey maybe they could make money by charging us for having a seat belt?!?!

What I'd like to know is what was the bonus of the CEOs of the airlines? I have the feeling that despite the financial troubles the airlines are going through, the CEO still get their millions in bonuses in addition to their million salary..I don't begrudge them their salary, when you start nickel and diming me to death and I have no alternatives, it gets me annoyed!

So, $15 for a suitcase, 25 cents per bathroom trip, $50 for seatbelt, $10 for a lousy meal, $125 for a seat with a back, and $1500 for the airfare...come fly the friendly skies!
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 10:45 PM
  #47  
 
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To date people who travel light subsidise those who *cannot* travel with anything less than 2 steamer trunks the size of a small country.

This just starts to redress the balance
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 11:00 PM
  #48  
lyb
 
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not that I travel with more than 1 suitcase in general, though often on my way home, I do have an extra duffle bag type for dirty laundry/maps, misc....so that i can put my purchases in my suitcase...but if having 2 suitcases is causing so much more cost due to fuel, then I agree with the person who mentioned that heavier people should pay more. Why should I be penalize for having 2 suitcases if the total weight of myself and my suitcases are still than the person who is sitting next to me without even counting their suitcase -- if you're going to use more room, than pay more!!!
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 11:08 PM
  #49  
 
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An open letter to flanneruk:

Would you just shut up? Frankly, you sound like a small, pathetic man. Ask yourself this: "if I were to substitute Chinese or Africans for Americans, when I spew my poorly-informed venom, would it be okay?" It is trolling, plain and simple and I ask that you take it somewhere else.

From what I can tell, you don't visit the US with any regularity. Your hostile attitude suggests you don't have any American friends. You don't seem to be especially conversant in US history. But you hold yourself up to be all-knowing, and want to pass judgment on all things American.

It is tedious. And you look like an idiot.

The sad thing is, that I gather you are actually a pretty smart guy. For some reason, you have decided to present a face to this board of a rude, poorly-informed bigot. And I can't figure out why.

BTW, depending upon how you measure it, the UK (and the whole of the EU) actually uses oil less efficiently than the US:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrole...sumption_rates
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 11:52 PM
  #50  
 
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Those consumption rates support flanner argument, which is (of course) mostly correct.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 11:55 PM
  #51  
 
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(barrel/person/year)
European Union 29.70
United States 68.81
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 12:43 AM
  #52  
 
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Those consumption rates support flanner argument, which is (of course) mostly correct.

Only in a superficial way. The most significant problem with the consumption per capita measure is that it is basically a proxy for income. By this measure, then the EU is downright rapacious compared to the Democratic Republic of Congo. This is why the GDP-to-consumption ratio is offered.

Even more damning, to my mind, of the consumption per capita measure is that it informs us very little if we want to predict future oil consumption. Relying on such a measure, for instance, would lead to grossly underestimating the growth in demand from China and India.

Think about it this way. Suppose you had to estimate the total oil consumption of a country, without reference to the actual numbers. What would be the independent variables in your model? I would likely start with the following:

- GDP
- population
- overall population density
- % of population in urban areas with populations above 1m
- % of population in urban areas with populations above 500k
- % of population in urban areas with populations above 250k
- consumption of coal
- consumption of natural gas
- % of population below poverty line
- Farm production
- % of population in rural areas

You and flanner seem to be proposing that we add some sort of "cultural proclivity to consume oil". But how would you measure this? And assuming you could measure it, do you think it would actually contribute to the model? Indeed, wouldn't it be more likely that this proclivity would be dependent upon the same independent variables? Isn't it just a replacement for consumption per capita, in which case it isn't independent?

It isn't enough to claim that Americans are "greedy", unless you can show that they are more greedy than "like" countries, or that the US consumption is not predictable by the same model as the EU, that doesn't rely on value judgments. Unfortunately, with GDP per capita of roughly 72% that of the US, the EU isn't that alike. Canada, with a GDP per capita roughly 83% that of the US tracks more closely.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 01:07 AM
  #53  
 
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>But how would you measure this?
In Barrel per Person per Year.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 01:21 AM
  #54  
 
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Well logos, it must be nice living in a world where circular logic is the only "logic" you need.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 01:23 AM
  #55  
 
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Come on....how many people are really going to cut down on the amount of luggage they bring...the charge is not meant to save money on fuel costs...it is to raise money to pay for fuel costs just like any other fee they impose....sometimes, of course in many situations, fees may seem well justified but the hassle of collecting them and other down the line problems caused by impositions of such fees, cause them to be rescinded.

This fee is almost in that category....it will slow up checking in (how can it not?); it will slow up boarding as people struggle to put their oversized cases into the overheads, it will cause friction as noted when people put their own carry ons into the overheads and are told to remove them (it's happened to me) so somebody with a case that should be checked tries to stuff it in over my smaller carryon...and by itself, it won't save any fuel costs although of course any fee helps defray them......

As as for our friend flanner, if you want to have a dialogue, you might try lighten up a bit...many many of your fellow countrymen are grabbing up property in the USA to live there part time (see many Florida communities which have many British snow birds)...see the New York City area which, despite what is happening in the rest of the country, is having a housing boom as millions of foreigners, including tons of Brits, are taking advantage of the weak USD and don't seem to share the hostility you throw out at every last bit...unfortunately for us, we've had a mental midget running the country who has put it into a serious problem thanks to his lack of understanding but, and I've used this line before, after my latest bout with kidney stones, my urologist told me this too shall pass..
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 01:43 AM
  #56  
 
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>In Barrel per Person per Year

Think about it, this actually includes all relevant data like imports or exports of manufactured goods. When a piece of plastic is made in China and exported to the US, it's part of US oil consumption, not of the Chinese, as is all the oil used for producing it.
So that's a pretty accurate and fair figure.

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Old May 23rd, 2008, 02:09 AM
  #57  
 
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So that's a pretty accurate and fair figure.

Do you not understand the difference between independent and dependent variables? If one is trying to explain consumption of oil for a country, you can't point to consumption per capita as a determining factor.

And, as I clearly stated, consumption per capita quickly becomes a proxy for GDP per capita. And it does not address differences that are completely indpendent of any social proclivity to consume the oil. How is this a causal mechanism? How does this measure make you better able to understand the issue at hand?

My issue isn't with the statement that the US consumes a lot of oil, my issue is with claiming that such consumption is abnormally high. It is quite in line with the economic production of the country, geographical distribution, and agricultural production. Oil is nothing more than an input. The US doesn't consume oil because we are wasteful or callous, as flanner wants to imply, we consume more because that level of consumption is consistent with the increased productivity of the US economy.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 02:22 AM
  #58  
 
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Nope, you're wrong here.
GDP is not a factor or reflected in those figures. Think it over! Consumption is what is measured, not production, since the economic output is consumed somewhere, no matter where it was produced. (There's the flaw in your argument). When the US exports products made from oil to Europe that consuption would count for the European consumer, not the US consumer. Even though the US has imported and used that oil in the first place.

Those on the planet that consume more, use more oil per person, no matter for this countries economic structure or GDP etc.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 02:36 AM
  #59  
 
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But it still wouldn't address differences in geography or the fact that rich people consume more, and whether rich people in the EU consume less than a similarly rich person in the US.

My question was how you would measure "cultural proclivity to consume oil" and clearly differentiated this from economic or geographic measures. You answer that cultural proclivity = consumption per person. Since we are trying to measure consumption, how is this not circular logic?

You can say that you are measuring consumption and not productivity, but since the two are so closely tied, I fail to see how this really makes a difference.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 02:49 AM
  #60  
 
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When the standard of living is "about similar" in Europe and the US, how can it be that a US consumer uses more than twice the amount of oil than a European consumer? (It is understandable that poor people consume less oil, what is not understandable is that consumers in one country use twice as much as in another country with a similar living condition.

The answer can only be that is is wasted because it's so cheap! In inefficient cars or poorly isolated houses. It can't be only conusmer goods that make a difference that big.
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