mac

There is a recent (ca 1 May, 2001) Fodor’s article (‘When to stiff the waiter’) which quotes a former waitress on the subject of tipping. Of specific interest to me was her comment that a tip of 15 per cent is, to her at least, no longer the 'norm'(it never was for me.) The customer, it seems, is now expected to tip more like 17 to 20 per cent, supposedly to cover a ‘pay raise’ for the occupation. <BR> <BR>As we all know, the service charge or tip is based upon a bill that is fixed in amount. Except, except….over the years, the ‘fixed’ amount paid for a given meal has not exactly remained ‘fixed.’ One does not pay today, for a given meal in a given establishment, what one would have paid five years ago. In other words, quite apart from increases in the percentage one uses to tip, the base upon which tips are calculated has been increasing. Ten per cent of yesterday’s $20.00 meal is $2.00; the same meal priced today at $25.00, tipped at ten per cent, yields $2.50. Therefore, wait staff receive pay raises every time the restauranteur raises his prices, even when the percentage tipped remains the same. Incidentally, while $25.00 times 0.10 yields a tip of $2.50, $25.00 times 0.15 yields a tip of $3.75. The second tip is not five per cent bigger than the first tip, it is fifty per cent bigger! Similarly, ‘raising’ the tip percentage yet again to 17 per cent may not sound like a lot, but it represents an 11 per cent increase in pay over a 15 per cent tip; raising it to 20 per cent from 15 represents a 33 per cent increase in pay over a 15 per cent tip, and a 100 per cent increase in pay over a 10 per cent tip! When my income doubles, or even goes up by a third, I’ll start leaving 20 per cent. Meanwhile….. <BR> <BR>Whether the staff receive a real increase in income, or whether their income will increase only commensurate with inflation, is keyed to the success of the establishment; empty restaurants leave no tips. A successful restaurant can set prices well above its costs, or in other words, increase its profit margins. Now, what would make you willing to pay higher prices, over and above the average for a given category of meal? <BR> <BR>How about…. A reputation of the restaurant for good food, and…… <BR> <BR>Comments, please <BR>

Paige

I read this pretty quick so forgive me if I missed something, but tipping in Europe is completely different from tipping in the US. In a lot of Euro countries, tax and tip are included in the prices and you don't HAVE to tip anything, although people generally round the bill up.

AC

mac: <BR>The real problem lies in the fact that restaurant owners are not obligated to pay anything even near the minimum wage. Even if the prices get raised, the only one making any extra money is the owner. Many years ago I worked for a very successful restaurant. GREAT tips, busy place, great food. Many years later, my best friend who still works there is still making the SAME hourly wage! The prices have definitely increased. The food is still terrific and tips are good though the place is not as busy as it once was. <BR>I agreed with the fact that a small tip is more powerful than none at all because you believe that if nothing was left that it was a mistake or the person is a jerk. A small tip shows me you were unhappy, but I would hope that it never came to that and that if a customer were unhappy, the server would be made aware before the customer left the restaurant. <BR>I am happy to say that for the ten years I worked there, I am able to recall just 2! times where I was "stiffed". One an unhappy customer who I was not able to make it better for and once where it was a bunch of teenage girls who ate like hounds and left without paying. My boss never made me pay that check, so it wasn't a total loss. Well, my rant is done!

Lex

I read the article, too, and thought it was spot on - it is time for a raise. <BR> <BR>Your logic may seem sound, but the facts do not support it. <BR> <BR>Restaurant menu increases do not, contrary to popular belief, keep up with the cost of living. Case in point? Wendy's , who has had their "99-cent menu" for a decade. I know it's a fast food joint, but it points out the fact that food costs in general have remained incredibly stable over the last five years in particular. <BR> <BR>Also, the waiter's job is not to make the food---it is to deliver it to the table, so the quality of the food should not affect their tip. But it does. Customers are fast to leave a poor tip if the food was sub-standard. <BR> <BR>All tipping is optional, yet restaurants get away with paying criminally low hourly wages---they act as if all customers will tip appropriately, which they do not. <BR> <BR>My belief is that everyone should be a waiter for a day just to see how it feels---people always expect more than they are willing to pay for. <BR>

Roberta

I think a customer should tip what he or she deems appropriate for the service. If the food is unsatisfactory it is not the fault of the service person...the tip should reflect the level of service. Keep in mind these people (waitstaff) are paid a poor hourly wage relative to how hard they work, so they depend on tips. If they care enough to give you good service, you should tip accordingly, as should you if they provide poor service...that is my philosophy.

mac

I agree with those who point out the low hourly wage of wait staff, but that is just the point. As another poster pointed out, in Europe wait staff are treated as professionals, and paid accordingly. The service charge is included, or at most, one rounds it up a bit. But the principle would be the same; what I expect to do is have the employer pay the wage, and pass on the cost in the prices. I want the employer to do the hiring and the training of the staff, rather than have me 'train' them, via tips, to serve me. Good wait staff are not a matter of luck, and their pay should not be determined by the luck of the draw, either by how much the customer orders, or by how much they tip. <BR> <BR>In addition to the hourly wage, the staff should be receiving a percentage of the profits, which is best administered by the employer, as opposed to the customer trying to accomplish the same objective by paying a percentage of the bill. <BR> <BR>While it is true that Wendy's may not have increased their 0.99 meal, I was not thinking of fast food restaurants which do not offer table service and which do not involve tipping. I am aware that wage rates at such establishments are truly appalling. <BR> <BR>Thank you for your responses, it's always important to get fresh perspectives.

frank

It's very unfair to turn a large part of a waiter's income into a lottery : it's the same work to carry a cheap dish as an expensive one. <BR>The reason restaurants do it is to ensure grovelling, which the customers love, also to encourage selling extra drinks & coffee to inflate the bill, which the restaurant loves. <BR>The waiters hate it, which is why they pool tips in some places. <BR>I don't tip as a %, I try to leave the same amount no matter what I order, more if its a special dish needing waiter input.(flambe etc) <BR>In UK standard tip in a restaurant is 10%.Nobody tips in bars except in special circs. <BR>Every country is different, some eg France have laws about it, but nobody in <BR>Europe gives the high tips given in America.

kate

Yes---and good tourists honor the customs of whatever culture they happen to be in. And if you are in America, the custom is to tip 15% for good service (or more). It does not matter where you are from---that is no excuse for poor tipping! <BR>It just means you are an ignorant tourist.

former waitress

Mac, you're a cheap bastard. sorry.

Lisa T

I worked for a restaurant that took the AMEX and Visa percentage charges out of my tips--about 2 to 4 percent! <BR> <BR>Talk about criminal!

sylvia

Just out of interest, if you tip a waiter in the USA, so they get to keep the money. <BR>In England, the usual thing is for any tips to be shared between all the staff. Quite often, there will be a staff box by the exit where tips are placed. <BR>IMHO tipping is a pernicious and degrading practice and people like waiters should be payed a proper wage. Iceland is a good example of a country where it is "not done" to tip. <BR>Of course, when we are in the US we tip everything that moves.

jim

One correction. In the US, there are places where the staff pools their tips. I worked at one when I was in college. <BR> <BR>Call me crazy (and I'm sure some posts will) but I like the practice of tipping. It's one of the few opportunities where you get to decide the value of something yourself right on the spot. People in the US continually complain about a lack of top-quality service (outside of the hospitality industry). It happens because the person you're dealing with gets the same whether they do a good or bad job. So: long live tipping! <BR> <BR>My personal habit is to tip at least 20% if the service is good -- sometimes more if it's exceptional. If the service stinks, I leave much less.

Edward

I treat tipping the same way I treat grading my students: <BR>At first, everybody has an A. What they do the rest of the semester will determine how far that grade slips from A. <BR> <BR>Same with a restaurant. I start with the standard tip, and subtract if they are not doing their job in some way. I might even add a little more---give them an A+---if they are exceptional!

xxx

Tipping is such a ludicrous practice. I wish there was some way overnight to get rid of it. It sends an incredibly insulting message from the management to the customer. <BR> <BR>It says, "I don't have any idea how to evaluate these the employess (the wait staff) and I expect you to do it for me; I want you to do the necessary compensation research, and set their wages. Oh, and I don't care what you decide. You don't need to tell me about it because I wouldn't compile it and use your appraisal and financial decision in any way to refine my business." <BR> <BR>What if every service business operated this way? What if the hourly rate for a mechanic was $4.00 but it was understood that you would add some fraction of the cost of the parts? What if you really did have to tip the pilot? <BR> <BR>The hospitality industry should be ashamed of itself for expecting its customers to do the NORMAL job of MANAGEMENT in every other service business industry. <BR>

zenka

Are you saying that I still have to pay at least 15% even if food is dissapointing or a staff couldn't care less about us being there? Our meal at the Chanterelle came to almost US $200 for two of us but it was not anything to write home about and a staff was nowhere to be found. We always thought that a wait staff suppose to wait. To be more specific we were there on January 2nd. We feel we didn't get what we paid for. Do you still think we should leave at least $30? <BR>Mac I am with you on this one. Thank you for speaking out

yyy

xxx is right on. Restaurants do not have to pay a living wage or provide benefits for their employees. Their customers are expected to provide most of the wages, and the taxpayers pick up the tab for the health care. Every business should be so lucky. Cheap labor subsidized by customers and taxpayers.

Lynn

All, <BR> <BR>I agree that in that article, the writer got a bit carried away. However, I was a waitress for 3 years and I must say that waitstaff traditioanlly does not even make minimum wage--at least not in Massachusetts. I made $2.55 per hour at a corporate restaurant (national chain) back in 1996. The minimum wage was $5.00 or just below at that point. I then went to work for a family-owned restaurant and made $3.50. <BR> <BR>If the service is good, I tip 20%. If it's great, I tip more. Too many people blame the waitstaff for things way beyond their control. Believe me, Mac--wait tables for a living and only then will you ever understand what it's like.

GE

I don't think the article or this discussion is about comparing the job of a waiter to other jobs: Waiters work for tips in America---that's just how it is. It does no good to say "well, we don't tip our mechanics based on the cost of the parts" or whatever. <BR> <BR> <BR>The bottom line is that any cheapskate who leaves a bad tip because he is philosphically opposed to the "system" should stay at home and eat TV dinners...

Jane

For wait staff complaining about low wages and depending on tips, I'm curious how many of you actually declare all of your tips to the IRS. <BR> <BR>When I waitressed, we were paid $3.50 an hour (this was 3 years ago), and our boss told us that we only had to declare tips that took the $3.50 up to the hourly minimum wage (forget what it was exactly, but if it was $5.00, we only declared $1.50 in tips per hour). This, of course, is completely illegal, but I was young and impressionable at the time, and believed him. <BR> <BR>How many of us working in office jobs get 75% or more of our income tax free? This is why I ALWAYS tip by credit card, to insure that everyone is paying their fair share in taxes (in part because I pay MORE than my fair share). <BR> <BR>I also waitressed in England, where we shared our tips. I didn't actually think this system was fair. Here I was, a student working at a summer job, getting the same share of the tips as women who had worked in the restaurant for 20 years. <BR> <BR>And I also agree with Mac. Real restaurant prices have increased significantly in the past 5-10 years, and so accordingly the amount I tip has gone up, but not the percentage, unless I receive outstanding service.

elvira

I'm into acting instead of reacting. If service stinks, I complain to the manager or maitre d' (and I mean when it's really lousy - rude is the thing that puts it over the edge for me); if the food is not good, again, I speak up. If you leave a small or no tip, the waiter just thinks you're a cheap bastard; management never knows that you were miffed or why. <BR> <BR>I leave around 20%, 'cause leaving pennies is ugly. Example: w/o tax, tab is $16.80; 15% is $2.52, so I bet most people round down to $2.50; 20% is $3.36, so I can round to $3.25 or $3.35 without worry. <BR> <BR>Oh God I was was with my mother and her friend at a family restaurant; my mother leaves 15% (she sort of guestimates based on what she spent, rounds up a little); her friend PULLS OUT A WALLET SIZE CARD THAT GIVES THE **EXACT** AMOUNT FOR 15% AND SHE LEAVES **$1.33** IN CASH ON THE TABLE. When they went out to the car, I swiped the pennies and left two dimes... <BR> <BR>I personally think the whole tipping thing is wretched; pay the waitstaff a decent wage and include the cost in my meal so I don't have to do math when I'm supposed to be relaxing.