sandra

I know that i will get flamed but tipping has become my pet peeve. I have been on my own rant for the past feww months. I live on the east coat where dinner for four can cost us 400.00 plus including drinks and coffee. Why is it i must then add about 75-100 dollars to this for the staff. Shouldn't it be the restuarant owners responsibility to pay his staff ? When i go to shops and large stores i don't have to pay the clerks who wait on me, do i ? So why am i paying for the meal and the staff. I think it's time that restaurant owners start paying to run there own businesses, just like all other business owners. <BR> Could you imagine going into to Ralph Lauren on Madison Avenue buying a 3000.00 suit and then having to give the clerk an additional 600.00 just for selling it to you and carring it to the register ? Or going to the drug store for a prescription and having to tip the pharmacist 20% for putting it in the bottle . No , no one would do it.

brown I's

I agree with many folks here. Sometimes I feel like I'm being held hostage by restaurant owners. Is is really OUR responsibility to provide enough money for a decent wage? I'd abolish the practice. <BR> <BR>Seems I often hear how waitstaff is paid so poorly, but he/she made $300 in tips that night. Doesn't sound so bad, does it? <BR> <BR>

Chuck

Why is it that servers are quick to clear your plates away before everyone has finished? Is this to insure a quick turnover of tables? When I go to a nice restaurant, I like to take my time and enjoy my meal. It seems that is becoming increasingly a problem from the noise factor to the quick hand of servers scuttling plates away.

Cindy

I hate tipping. There. I said it. <BR> <BR>But I also think one should tip even when the tip is large because the bill is large. Let's face it. The cost of the meal is the cost plus the service. Whether one pays it directly or in the form of higher menu prices isn't really that important. The cost of a suit is the suit plus the tax. The cost of the car is the car plus the tags. The price of expensive art is the art plus the auction fee. People pay those "add-ons" without batting an eye, so leave the darn tip already.

Lucy

Hey Brown L., <BR> <BR>I have worked in every kind of restaurant/bar there is. The ONLY place I ever made $300 per night was Hooters. And it had nothing to do with the food or the service. <BR> <BR>And to Chuck. What a great idea. Let's leave the dirty dishes all over the table for you to enjoy! Why didn't I think of that? Personally, I get a little peeved when servers DON'T clear dirty dishes. You could try McDonald's. There you can clear your own wrappers and spend as much time as you'd like! <BR> <BR>Turn 'em and burn 'em, that's what I always say!! <BR> <BR>Thanks Cindy!

Jean Valjean

<BR>I don't mind tipping, though I find it a rather puzzling practice, so full of little intrincacies and variations from place to place. <BR> <BR>One thing that I do mind, is the whole percentage thing. In many places (particularly in Europe), there's a service charge per PERSON, irregardles of what people ate. I find that reasonable (except that you HAVE to pay it, and it no longer reflects your opinion on the service). <BR> <BR>Let's say that two people go in a restaurant. One of them has two cokes, a burger (or any other "cheap" dish) and a bowl of ice cream. The other has a Campari orange, a glass of wine, the most expensive entree in the restaurant and an expensive dessert. Same trips to the table, right? Why is one of them going to pay twice (or more) in tips? <BR> <BR>"He/she can afford it!", someone might say. So then, the tip should reflect your income? <BR> <BR>That is rather confusing...

vodo4

4 things: <BR> <BR>1. Service in Europe is absolutely horrible, because they aren't expecting a decent tip, if any. Do we want that here in the US? <BR>2. I found that as a waiter it was easy to make over $400 during the weekend at a good restaurant. It was hard work, but a fantastic wage for uneducated workers. <BR>3. Does anyone besides me have a problem with the $2 service charge + 17% tip automatically added to room service at hotels these days? <BR>4. I do tip well for good service, at least 20%.

colege

Whoa vodo4: <BR>Where did you get the idea that waitstaff is "undereducated"??? <BR>Many people I know have found that waiting tables in a decent place beats working in an office anyday...And how many people work there way through school and then decide that the restaurant business is not so bad after all!

Cindy

Two people want to list their houses for sale. One is a modest home. One is a mansion. The same things have to be done to sell each house (open houses, inspections, paperwork, etc.). The person selling the mansion pays a much larger fee to the agent, although the same service was performed -- the house got sold. <BR> <BR>Yet no one complains.

StCirq

And where, Vodo, did you get the idea that "service in Europe is absolutely horrible?" I've never found that to be true as a generalization. Service in Europe is more understated than in the USA but how many people really enjoy the "Hi! I'm Todd, your waitperson and I'm going to reel off 17 specials that will make your brain freeze, and if you're lucky I might sit down and have a drink and get to know you, too" approach? NOT that that is the m.o. in all restaurants, of course, but service is definitely more casual in the USA. I like the way that being a waiter in Europe is a profession, and think it encourages a more professional attitude, despite the tipping situation.

Gerry

I recently returned from a trip to Italy and would like to share some observations re to this subject. <BR>Every resturant added a 15% service charge to the bill and no one was expecting a tip. <BR>Never once did a waiter interupt our meal or conversation. Never once were the plates grabbed off our table. We were never given a bill until we asked for it. The waiters would watch the table from a distance and would not approach your table until we signaled them. And they were always watching if you needed them. You could sit as long as you wanted even after the resturant closed and no one ever rushed us. When we did decide to leave after we had paid the bill everyone it seemed from the owner to the dishwasher would thank you and wish you a good evening. This was whether we tipped or not. On one occasion when I rounded up my bill(about 5%) and paid on leaving ,the owner asked me to wait while he went and got our waiter and busboy and told them to thank me for my generosity. We ate at only inexpensive resturants. <BR> <BR>So maybe you guys could explain to me how the tipping system you describe is better. <BR> <BR>Gerry

Sue

I think what everyone fails to take into consideration is this: If a law were passed (for example), making restaurant owners absorb tips, prices would go up 20-25%, plus servers would be lucky to see half of that.

Chcuk

Lucy-You missed the point. I have been in nice places and have not even finished my dinner when the server swoops down and tries to grab my plate or the plates of my companions. I don't believe in languishing forever in a restaurant, but it would be nice to enjoy your dinner without feeling pressured to vacate the table....

Beth

I agree about the piccking up plates too early thing. I was at Smith and Wollensky's in Chicago this past weekend. It is a very nie and very expensive steakhouse. We met another couple there for dinner on Saturday and did not want to be rushed through. We had hoped to linger and visit while eating. Alas, before some of us could even finish our salads the server was picking up the plates. With the main course, she was to pick up plates the very instant you put your fork down and finished. Now I don't think dirty dishes should be left for hours or that we should lean up ourselves but I know this is sa ruse to rush customer through as fast as possible and get someone else in so they an get more tips. Well it backfired in this case as we lingered for coffe for sometime after the meal. Other times when I truly felt rushed by the server, I reduced their tip because of it, again the ruse backfires!

Laura

I don't think anybody appreciates being rushed through their meal. I don't, and I take great care to make sure my customers don't. But there are extremes. One evening I had a couple seated at one of my tables around 8:30pm.. We stopped seating the dining room at 10:00pm. They were finished with their desserts and after dinner drinks by around 10:45pm. No big deal considering the closing duties and things to take care of before you leave. They sat there until almost 1:00am. And I did continue to check from time to time to see if they needed anything(water, coffee, etc.). At that time the manager politely asked them to leave as even the coctail lounge was closing. At that point they stood up screaming that they had NEVER been treated so rudely in their entire lives! They were the only customers in the building for about an hour and a half. Needless to say $120.00(amt. of check) and 4 1/2 hours later I received no tip. I didn't and still don't think they were reasonable. There are extremes on both sides.

Jean Valjean

Or what about when they give you the check when you have barely finished your dessert and still waiting for your coffee? I have seen that happen only in the US... <BR> <BR>In most places in Europe you can sit down, order a coke, or a beer, or whatever, and nurse it for hours without anyone putting any pressure on you! I find that quite nice...

Fortunate

I have extremely mixed feelings on this subject. On the one hand, my left brain, "dollars-and-cents" side agrees with Mac. I don't know where some of you eat, but in my area, even chain family restaurants like Marie Callender's or Carrow's have gotten expensive, never mind the cost of fine dining. Therefore tips do in fact increase as the total bill increases. <BR> <BR>When I'm not computing percentages, however, I try to remember what someone once said to me: that tipping, whether in restaurants or hotels, or the car wash, is a valid form of "charity". In saying that I don't mean to insult any of the workers in these positions. Rather, I try to view this as a way to freely give money to someone because I want them to have it, because I can afford a meal out, because I know the individual who will benefit, because I know their base pay is inadequate. I work in an industry where it's routine for certain employees to subsidize the pay of other employees. Philosophically I may resent the system that depends on my goodwill, and suffers if I fall short, but the fact is that I am in a position to give, and that's my bottom line.

Erin

I don't have any problem with tipping the waitstaff. Although I do wish the US would adapt the "European method" and just tack the service charge onto the bill (saves me the time of doing the math). My pet peeve is when I go to Dunkin Donuts/Starbucks and they have that "tip cup" on the counter. Now I'm supposed to tip you for pouring me a cup of coffee and putting my donuts in a bag??? <BR> <BR>QUESTION: are you supposed to tip on the tax or on the subtotal (before tax)? For years I tipped 15% on the tax, but recently a friend said you should tip 15% on the subtotal pre-tax.

Laura

Erin, I don't know if there is an answer to that question. I've heard both are correct.

elvira

A friend who worked as a waitress in England said she never saw all the tip that was included in each meal price - it's sop for the owner to short change the waitstaff (my description of what happens, not hers). If that's the case, what exactly do the waitstaff earn? U.S. waitstaff get paid $3.30 an hour (assumption here, just for the sake of argument), then get tips, they make a living wage. No one's going to be buying jumbo CDs with that. Are waiters/waitresses in Europe in a similar financial situation? <BR> <BR>