Ben

Oh my God! <BR> <BR>I thought I was the only one who had that no-pennies rule! <BR> <BR>And as for my parents, I'm always adding to their tips when I go out to eat with them!

jon

What story are you talking about?

Judy

Hello all, I also wish they would decide to include the tip in either price of the food, or as a separate service charge.... Elvira: that is funny you with the dimes, I can see myself doing that too! <BR> Ben: here is a differant take on your comment. wWe took my parents to a nice restaurant, and the service was awful, and that is an understatement! After complaining both to the waitress then the manager, we left very unhappy. As were leaving my mother runs back to put extra money on the table, my son spots this crazy gesture(he was ticked too) quietly goes to the table and picks up the offending money! My mother was clueless......thank goodness, Judy ;-/ <BR>

Les

Just a couple of thoughts. <BR>Some posters feel that if the food is unsatisfactory, this should not reflect upon the server. Well and good. But what if the food was unsatisfactory because it arrived cold? Or wasn't prepared as ordered? If I order a steak medium-well, and it gets served rare and has to be sent back, who's at fault? It's my contention that it's the waiter's responsibility to not serve me a steak (or any dish) that's not prepared as ordered (even if he has to cut into it to verify that it's properly cooked). It's the chef's fault for not cooking it properly, but it's the waiter's fault for allowing it to get to the table that way. <BR>Also, what if the meal is not timed properly (i.e., everything arrives together - soup, salad, main course - or if the courses overlap). Is it the waiter's job to ensure that the meal arrives in sequence, or the chef's? I'm never sure. <BR>And finally, in my usual cold-hearted fashion, I don't care whether or not a waiter makes a living wage or gets decent wages. He can vote with his feet. I vote with my tip. Good service deserves a 15% tip. Exceptional service desrves more (but rarely above 20%), and ANY service that makes the meal even slightly unpleasant (I'm talking service now, not those things out of the waiter's control) should be appropriately penalized (down to zero, if warranted). After all, the reason for eating out (unless you're on a trip) is to make the meal a more or less festive occasion. I also believe it's up to the patron to make it known as early as possible if he's unhappy with the service, but if it's gotten to that point, the meal is probably already unpleasant, and the waiter should be penalized.

Amy

Minimun 20%. No pennies. Round up to the nearest dollar. If you can afford to eat in a restaurant (instead of boiling up those 29 cent Ramen noodles) you can afford to tip properly. And if you're dining alone, remember that the waiter does almost as much work for half the tip. <BR>And yes, I do far prefer the European way--waiting tables is a profession and should be paid accordingly.

Les

Amy, <BR>I agree with your statement (slightly re-phrased) that if you can't afford to tip properly, you can't afford to eat out. However, isn't the whole thrust of this thread "what constitutes tipping properly?" And, frankly, a MINIMUM tip of 20% (your suggestion) is ridiculous, no matter what your income is.

Lizzie

I have to say, I agree with the previous poster - 20% is what people leave for a tip these days. Maybe it's an NYC thing. I have no problem with leaving a token dollar if I am dissatisfied, however.

Laura

I have been in the restaurant business for most of my adult life. I have worked as a hostess, server, bartender, and manager, so I have worked as a tipped and a salaried employee. I don't expect anyone to tip me 15-20% if I gave them poor service. I am very proud of the job I do and my customers do receive good, attentive service. I also have to tip out other people that help me give good service. 1% to the busperson, 1% to the bartender, and 1% to the expeditor. So I don't walk out with all of my tips. I also don't appreciate people who can't thank you enough for the great job I've done and leave a $3.00 tip on a $75.00 bill. Your verbal gratuities don't pay my rent! I also doubt that any of my customers would appreciate it if I cut into their steak before I delivered it to their table. I also have health insurance so the taxpayers are not carrying me. Believe me, I would be perfectly happy to add a service charge to the bill for service, but I believe you would see an overall decline in service in this country if this became standard practice. I'm sure this will irritate some of you, but I think most of the people who complain about tipping are the one's who don't do it anyway.

Jamie

Maybe it is a locale thing but I am stupified by the person who said the norm for tipping was 20%. I used to be a waitress in college so I would never stiff anyone or undertip, but here in rural Missouri the norm is more around 12%-15%. I thought I was being generous by leaving 15%-17%!!!!! I agree with the poster that said ther is no reason for the percentage to increase with time. As long as the food price increases and the tips will still be larger on the same percent. <BR> <BR>P.S. There was a similar thread on the US board about a month ago!

Caitlin

Laura, I agree with much of what you say. Les's attitude is beyond ludicrous. How would you really react if your steak arrived at table cut into and the waiter said "I was just making sure it was actually medium rare"? I don't believe you'd say "thanks, I appreciate it," you'd say "what the hell's wrong with this guy?" Cooking the food (except for tableside prep) is NOT the wait staff's job. If you have problems with the food, or the service, you should speak to a manager. If you leave a lousy tip for the wait staff because you didn't like the food, do you really think that will change anything in the kitchen? <BR> <BR>Re the question of declaring taxes, there are currently laws which tax wait staff as a percentage of their sales, so if you bring in $500 in sales on a given night, you're taxed as if you'd earned 15% in tips even if you've been stiffed. <BR> <BR>I do think that waitstaff-not to mention the guys on the line in the kitchen, who earn lousy wages and don't get tips--should earn a living wage and get health benefits. For all the bitching about tipping that people do, though, I don't believe most people in the US would prefer to give up the discretion of tipping and see higher wages, benefits, etc. reflected in he cost of food on the menu.

Caitlin

P.S. to Jamie: it is a locale thing. In NYC, especially in higher-end restaurants, 20% is the norm. But people also don't, or barely, tip cab drivers elsewhere in the country, where in NYC, 15% is standard. Of course, the cost of living here is much higher than in rural Missouri.

s.fowler

One of things I enjoy about eating out is Europe is that the waiters are prefoessionals. There is none of this "hi, my name is..." I wish there was a way to have that sustem in the US. But I guess capitalistic greed will win.

Thom

And one of the things I love about eating out in Paris is the half hour wait for a cup of coffee and a crust of bread---makes me appreciate even slow service elsewhere... <BR> <BR>re: Tipping? <BR>You pay for what you get!

Usually a good tipper

Yes, Caitlan, but I'm not interested in sending a message to the kitchen about the food. Or to the management. The food wasn't great, I don't want to hassel over it, the experience (service + food) was worth less than the fee charged, so I give myself a discount. <BR> <BR>Sorry.

Laura

To S.Fowler <BR>The "Hi, my name is..." is also one of my pet peeves. I don't do it. I figure if they want to know my name(most don't) they'll ask. At some restaurants that is a rule though.

Philip

I have a friend that leaves a preprinted card telling the server that the money that is left is a "gift" not a tip, and therefore non-taxable.

Gina

I live on the east coast of the US, and I usually tip around 20% unless the service is bad. I have been known to leave a few pennies to make a point if the service is excruciating, but otherwise my feeling is that as long as the system is the way it is (I wish waitstaff got a living wage too), then if I come into a restaurant I should tip as I'd want to be tipped if it were me. (Never waited tables, but lived with many folks who did; perhaps that's where I got the philosophy.) <BR> <BR>I also know that my dad, who's traditionally a good tipper, and one of my best friends, who tips bartenders like it's going out of style, get some of the best service I've ever seen. Not necessarily nauseatingly obseqious--just great service. And while it may stink that you have to tip well to get that kind of service (rather than it being standard), at least that works...considering that customer service is about dead in America, it seems a small price to pay.

John

Personally I prefer the waiter/waitress tell me their names. What's the problem? It sure beats calling "hey you" when I need some ketchup for my fries. <BR>John

Boone

Things that will never happen: <BR> <BR>1. abolition of tipping in the US in favor of straight wages. Too good a deal for the restauranteurs. <BR> <BR>2. reduction of the "standard" percentage back down to 10-15% -- and the rate _needed_ to rise because while the cost of everything else increased, the ridiculous "wages" ($3/hr. often) paid to servers never does. The difference between 15% and 20% is often a dollar or two, which I suspect you, mac, leave in change on your bureau at night. If you have a rant about restaurant prices, I wouldn't focus on the waitstaff. <BR> <BR>3. waitstaff will never be able to tell off a chef if people reduce the tip because something was wrong with the food or the time it took to reach the table -- at least in the US and I assume even more so in Europe, the chef is 'king' and no server in their right mind would tick off the chef -- too many ways to make the server suffer in retribution. <BR> <BR>Like some others, I believe in starting at 20% (partly because it's so easy to calculate) and taking off points for errors, problems, etc., But if there's something wrong with the food, I make sure the complaint goes to the chef or the management and doesn't stop at the server. <BR> <BR>One sure way to get that tip back down to 10% or less? Argue with me about anything, from choice of wine to whether fish should be cooked medium. Another: be so ridiculously "attentive" that you interrupt conversation repeatedly asking if everything's all right, particularly if you come over and schmooze with everyone at the table as if we were all brand-new good friends. It makes my wife feel guilty about not giving a good tip to "such a nice, friendly person," but not me.

Lisa

I've been working as a waitress/server for 20 years now, and am currently at a four star restaurant in Western New York. Here are some facts for you. <BR> <BR>I recently got a "raise" in my hourly pay rate, I'm up to $3.30 an hour now. <BR> <BR>I average 17% of my sales, in tips. 25% of that 17% gets tipped out to my bussers and bartenders. According to the IRS, I am supposed to claim the amount of money I made BEFORE I tip out that 25%. My paychecks are always $0.00, because I don't make enough hourly, to cover the taxes I need to pay on the money I make in tips. So, I end up paying money to the IRS every April 15th. <BR> <BR>Any tips put on a charge card, I lose 2% of, for transaction fees incurred by the restaurant. <BR> <BR>I pay out of my pocket for health insurance. <BR> <BR>I don't get any paid time off, for any reason; no sick days, no holidays, no vacation days. I can take as much time off whenever I want, for as long as I want, but then I lose the money I would have made had I worked the shifts. <BR> <BR>I'm not complaining, just letting you all know the facts. I save my money throughout the year to pay my taxes, to invest for retirement, and, of course, to travel with. I would like to make a few comments about service... <BR> <BR>I, personally, care very much that every one of my customers has an enjoyable meal at "my" restaurant. However, with the exception of presentation of the food, there isn't much else I can control about the meal itself. Without sticking my fingers in your food, I don't really know if your meal is hot, I can only be there the very second the chefs plated your meal. <BR> <BR>Same with the temps on your meat. YOU ordered it medium rare, I put the order in as medium rare, I watched the chef check the temp with a meat thermometer just before he put it on the plate, yet you got a well done piece of meat. Because this is a personal pet peeve of mine, whether or not you've complained to me, I WILL notice, and I will take the cost of the meal off your check. <BR> <BR>And, if there is something wrong with the meal, or the service, say something while you are there! If your potatoes are cold, maybe the oven is on the fritz, and no-one has realized it. There are four ovens and a grill on one side of the kitchen alone, it's hot back there. The chefs may not have noticed ONE oven, that is still throwing heat, is not actually up to temp. They will be grateful to be alerted to such a problem. <BR> <BR>With service, well, this one's tricky. There are times the restaurant is understaffed. Maybe one of the servers, or one of the chefs, called in sick at the last minute. Maybe what looked like a slow night requiring minimum staff, gets busy. It happens. I will do my best to make sure you don't suffer for it, but there is only so much I can do. If you want to tip less for what you consider slow or bad service under those circumstances, fine by me, I would understand, but I will know I've done the best job I could, and so will my manager. <BR>