Are there great differences in creature comforts between 1st and 2nd class on Premier trains such as the Thalys, Eurostar and TGV? Is it worth spending the extra money for 1st?

We don't think so. We have ridden the fast trains in Italy, Spain and France, and have been comfortable for our less than 10 hour rides. First class cars have slightly larger seats I think, and I remember rugs on the floor in a 1st class car in Italy. We have been satisfied with our 2nd class reserved seats on all our trips.

There is a marginal difference in comfort. I think the big difference is that first class is not usually as full of people, although on the TGV there were only two or three vacant seats in the car the times I have ridden first class.

I have on a couple of occasions paid the difference so I could be assured of a seat in a non smoking car. I waited too long to buy my tickets and all seats in 2nd class non smoking were gone. In that case, I felt forced to go 1st class.
The smoking cars on the TGV are such vile pits that even the smokers ride in non smoking and go to the smoking cars for their periodic "fix".

We just got back from Europe, we used the trains for all of our travel in France, Swizterland and Germany. Paris to Beaune, Paris to Byeaux, Paris to Luzune, Luzune to Munink, Munink to Freiburg. We were on the TGV and the ICE. We had a first class pass, but I looked at both sections.

The differences are:
- first class on TGV and ICE and other trains is 2 seats on one side the aisle and one seat, or a private compartment with six seats.
- First class on other trains is the same
- Second class is two seats on one side the aisle and two seats.

There is smoking and non smoking sections in both classes.

The only big difference is the number of people. Second class was near full on some of the popular routes, first class was near empty.

I don't remember what the price difference is, but we did not get reservation on any of the trains, including TGV and had no problems. Even through the schedule said "complusitory reservation" we asked at the train station and the said we did not have to have them. So I am not sure if it is cheaper to get first class and no reservations or second class with reservation.

Oh, by the way, first and second where both very nice and very clean. The second class section was just like first class on a plane in size of the seats.

All the trains had choices or cars, some with seats ordered like a plane, some with seats facing each other with a full sized table, some with a private room. Germany and Swizterland had the nicest trains.

I would be happy to answer more specific questions, just email me at [email protected]

P.S. sorry for the spelling

If you're seniors as we are, there is a senior discount for 1st class but not for 2nd and the discount for 1st was the same price as regular 2nd class. Obviously, we opted for 1st. We'll be in France next month... can't wait to ride the EuroStar!

If you decide to travel in 1st class on the Eurostar, it's worth travelling at midday as they'll serve you a 3-course champagne lunch (I assume they also serve a meal in the evening). Last time I did this the food was pretty good (but it was Christmas, so perhaps they were making it extra special) - foie gras, langoustines in cream sauce, petit fours, wine and coffee. And Jean-Paul Gaultier was sitting across the aisle reading fashion magazines.

I thought it was particularly good because of the fact that they stretched the service out for the duration of the journey, so that as we pulled out of Paris, they served the champagne, and we were just finishing ouf coffee as we arrived in London.

Hey Hanl,

That's first-class.

Hi Marty,

Try this link for a good train discussion.

http://fodors.com/forums/pgMessages....17&start=0

We just got back after more than 9 hours on trains--3.5 hours on a "regular" Swiss train from Lugano to Basel, then two ICE trains in Germany and Belgium.
The first ICE train was a nightmare in second class--although it was a very hot day, second class was NOT airconditioned!! After about 20 minutes sweltering in a crowded, overwhelmingly hot car (you can't open windows on the premium trains), we paid 90 euros to upgrade to first class and get the airconditioning. The ICE train is supposed to be air conditioned in both classes, but this is the second time I've been on German ICE trains that it was working only in first class.
At any rate, that's it for me in second class. I have ridden first and second class on the Thalys, Eurostar, and ICE trains and for me, the difference between the two *is* significant and worth the extra cost.

hi btike,
could you tell us more of the disadvantages of 2nd class in Eurostar?
were there aircondiotioning problems too. thanks.

I prefer to travel first class when it's a long trip (more than 2 hrs) on the TGV. I haven't done the others. It's worth it to me because it's less crowded and just a nicer journey. It's not necessary as no TGV car is that terrible. I have been on very crowded TGV cars at certain times (holidays, people returning to Paris Sun, etc) with some young hooligans acting rather badly (drunk, threatening an older man) and nothing was done about it by anyone. That isn't the norm, but that particular TGV in 2nd class was not very nice. I haven't noticed the 1st class fares as being that expensive in France, in comparison to 2nd.

Hi Nathan,
A few of the things I don't like about second class in the Eurostar (the UK-France/Belgium Eurostar, not the Italian one, which I've never taken). First, the seating. If you want a window seat, do not accept a seat assignment of seat numbers 52 or 22. You'll have no window, just a wall of the train. Also, Eurostar bunches everyone up in second class--the car may be only half full, but they'll cluster everyone together in one end. Yes, you can get up and move after the train leaves, but I like to get settled early and stay put (at least on German ICE trains, you can check above an individual seat to see if it's reserved. That's not the case on Eurostar). I don't want to have to get up and shift all my stuff around. In first class (called business class; second class is referred to as standard class), they space the passengers about evenly. In addition to the in-seat meal service, you can also help yourself to several current British magazines (I usually leave with about half a dozen lifestyle and business magazines, which are worth at least $30 on the newstand). If it's a choice between second class and not going at all, second class is certainly ok. But if you plan your trip carefully, you can get a first/business class trip for not much more than standard class.

I traveled twice on trains-once on Thalys and once on the TGV 2nd class each time. Both were very comfortable.