hi all,

We may start in Geneva and stay a few days, then possible Lausanne and Gruyere (heard beautiful scenery), then by train to Lyon and Paris - would like to stay in Paris a few days - any travel, hotel, scenic places to vist would be most appreciated! I heard that probably best to buy train tickets ahead of time, esp. high speed rail to Paris, so any comments/advice welcome.

BW, H

>I heard that probably best to buy train tickets ahead of time, esp. high speed rail to Paris, so any comments/advice welcome.

It is true for the TGV to paris but not true for the rest of your trip. Most people buy their tickets a few minutes before departure. It doesn't matter for you whether you do the same or buy a ticket months in advance.

In any case, I'm not a big fan of Geneva, so wouldn't recommend to stay there for too long. Lausanne is just 45 min away, so no need to change bases. Anoteh rbeautiful town along the way (which can be combined with gruyere) is fribourg, also on the mainline from Geneva to Bern.
You seem to avoid going to the mountains (except the foothills around Grueyere), is it intentional?

Lyon is a nice city and worth a visit for 2-3 days. Nice Old Town, roman arena, top archeological museum, art museum, squares, scenic views from mountain top, good to very good restaurants.

From there TGV to Paris.

Geneve is one of my least favorite cities also.

Stu Dudley

The title of your post caught my eye since I just returned from "10 days - start in Geneva finish in Paris"!

My itinerary ended up as follows:
Geneva: 4 days (I was only planning to spend 2 - 3 but, unlike some other posters, really liked it and stayed for 4 and then headed out along Lac Geneve)

Montreux-Vevey: 2 1/2 days

Lausanne: 1 1/2 days

Paris: 2 days

I used to live in Paris and return every year so don't need to spend that much time there. I'm assuming that you will want to spend more than 2 days there. Given that plus the fact that you want to go to Lyon (great city!), then you should probably not go along Lac Geneve (i.e. skip Vevey/Montreux/Lausanne/Gruyere).

If you skip Lyon (save it for another trip? As another possibility, last Oct I did a great 10 day trip to the region: Lyon, Annecy, Grenoble, Paris) then you could do the other destinations you mention.

Delta has a direct flight to Lyon from JFK (daily leaving 4:30pm, arrives VERY early) so you could fly into Lyon then visit your other destinations on the way to Paris.

The benefit to flying into Geneva is that there are more flights and the airport is 3 km downtown (not kidding - can't get more convenient than that!).

Re the trains, if you are going along the Lake, you can buy a rail pass. There are 2 options - a 5 and 7 day. I bought the 5 day pass which gave me 2 free days and 2 days at half price. Cost was 94 Swiss francs and I think I got 88 francs worth of travel out of it so not quite my money's worth.

Susan

Oops - typo re the trains. The 5 day pass gives you 2 free days and THREE half price days.

Thanks to everyone for the wonderful feedback - will definitely stay a few days in Lyon. Good tip on the trains (TGV)! I was looking more into Vevey, seems very lovely, so maybe Geneva for 2 days, then Vevey/Montreaux for a few before Lyon - any recommendations for moderately priced hotels in any of these fine cities? Other travel tips? BW, H

Hi hahohee,

What is your specific budget, as different folks have different ideas of what is "moderately priced." One hotel might be the Hotel Masson, which is a popular three-star hotel on these boards; it sits just a little outside of Montreux in the suburb of Territet-Veytaux. It's easy to get to by town bus.

For your time in Montreux, here are links to my "reviews" (w/photos) of my favorite activities there:

Montreux old town
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html

Lavaux
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html

Promenade Fleuri
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html

Morges
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...rges_Vaud.html

Have fun!

s

Hi Hahohee,

In Lyon, make sure to visit the traboules, which are hidden passageways that lead through the old town and teh Croix Rousse neighborhood to the river.

The Maison des Canuts is a great silk museum, which is definitely worth the visit as silk is such a part of Lyon's history.

As for accomodations, the Hotelo www.hotelo-lyon.com is a very reasonably priced and extremely comfortable and clean hotel near the Perrache train station. There is also the Jardin d'Hiver www.chambrehote-lyon.fr B&B which is very central near Bellecour.

SusanC, I'm glad to hear that you liked Geneva. We've been through it but didn't develop either affection or animosity toward it. Nonetheless we'll be spending Christmas Eve and Christmas Day there this year, enroute to our son's ski outing in Chamonix followed by several days to sightsee and relax in Annecy. Would you please share some of the reasons you liked Geneva and provide any suggestions for hotels and/or restaurants that might provide cozy accommodations during the holidays. I would be most grateful. Thank you.

Hahohee and Julie,

One tip on Geneva is that hotels are very expensive during the week and significantly less so on the weekends (Julie - not sure how this plays out during Christmas). For example I stayed in the Mandarin Oriental for $200 a night Sat and Sun nights. When I decided to spend an extra day in Geneva, I checked the price and it was going to be $650 for the extra night! I moved to a 3 star hotel right by the train station for $155. I just checked the Mandarin Oriental weekend/weekday rates on Expedia and the rates were similar ($200 on w/e and $600+ during week).


Hahohee - re hotels in Vevey/Montreux, 3 comments:

1. swandov2000 recommended Hotel Masson which sounded nice to me too.

2. Vevey is cheaper than Montreux but has less hotels. It was completely booked when I went. (BTW towns are right next to each other and easy to get to on public transport. Montreux is more resorty than Vevey)

3. I stayed at the Hotel Eden Palace Au Lac. I didn't love it but could stay there again although would pay up for a room with a lake view (in addition to a great view, you don't get woken up at 7am but the street cleaners like you do on the other side!). I paid $134 for a non-lake view. I think the Lake View rooms were around $160.

Julie - will write more later on Geneva - and also Annecy where I went last October.

Thanks Susan. Looking forward to your info. I'll also check Mandarin Oriental rates over Christmas. From what I've seen it looks like most of the hotels are on the right bank while the old town is closer to the left bank--and many of the restaurants are also on the left bank. True?

What I'd really like to find in a hotel would be a two room suite since otherwise we'll need to book a single for son and a double for us. We've found such rooms in several places, but everything I've looked at in Geneva seems to be only suites for two people. Not essential, just seemed like a nice idea.

Thanks, Susan, for any help you can give on the sightseeing and day trip questions. I know that what's true at other times, might not be at Christmas, but it's certainly a place to start.

Geneva is slighted by many people. I lived there for two months and found it to be a very relaxing small city. Besides, they could understand my French there as opposed to Paris. And as SusanC writes the airport is so close. Bus 10 takes you to the train station in about 15 minutes.

For less expensive hotels look in Ferney-Voltaire. It's in France on the border of Geneva.

I suggest a walk up the hill to Vieille Ville. For night life go to Carouge. If it was summer I would recommend a swim in Lac Léman.

On your way to Paris I suggest Beaune and Dijon in Burgundy. Buy some wine and mustard.

My trip to Geneva was in early Sept so some of things I did won't be the same for a December trip. Personally I love art/cultural and am also very athletic/ourdoorsy. Many people and places lean towards one or the other so I love a place that suits both!

I liked the cultural aspects, the old town, the international organizations and the fact that people were blading/biking/swimming along the lakefront.

Another tip: I got the Museum Passport for 20 francs - gets you in to 7 musuems which average 10 francs each. So if you plan to go to 2 then it makes sense to buy it and then you can pop into some of the others for a few min to check them out. I had planned to go to 5 of the 7 museums anyway (which would have cost 55 francs) so I got it and then checked out one of the remaining ones for free (add'l 8 francs) so it was a real money saver!

Here is how I spent my days:

SATURDAY: spent first half of day in Plainpalais section. First checked out the synagoge and various performance venues - including the Battiment that is in the river! In Plainpalais, went to the cool cemetary (of same name) where Calvin, Borges and other famous people are buried. Then went to a street fair that had food and performers. Then to Phillipe Patek watch museum (on museum passport). Then walked over to other side of town bypassing Vielle Ville to go to the Food Hall to buy a snack, then to the Russian church and the Bauer Collection (Asian ceramics also on Museum passport). Popped in the Swiss Art Museum (free) for about 20 min but didn't find the collection that compelling and was more interesting in going to the Bauer Collection. By now it was early evening so walked back through Vielle Ville, where the Hotel de Ville was having an open house with food, Swiss wine, music and tours of the Hotel de Ville - all for free! This was dinner. Then raced home, changed and ran over to the one venue that had a performance which fortunately wasn't starting until 8:30 so I just made it and...they gave me a free ticket! I enjoyed it until I fell asleep (since I'd taken the overnight flight from NYC the previous night) so since ticket was free and I didn't care for the composer in the 2nd half, I left at intermission. Definitely was a full day after pulling an all nighter the night before!

SUNDAY: slept in and then raced over to the Auditoire de Calvin's 11:00 service (I'm Presbyterian so this was very cool for me). Hung out there a bit meeting people at coffee hour and taking some photos. Then went to the Cathedral and went up into the tower - great views! Interesting to see a grand Cathedral that's Protestant! Then off to Museum of the Reformation which is right next door (also on museum passport). Then insanely walked to Martin Bodmer Foundation of historical manuscripts(on museum passport). It was a beautiful day for a walk along the lake but it was pretty far (turns out it's technically in Coligny, a suburb of Geneva) and required a turnoff up a steep narrow road with traffic. It was hot and I hadn't eaten or had anything to drink all day so was not so comfortable. Once I arrived in Coligny, town was cute, I found an open boulangerie and the museum easy to find and in nice location with view over lake (since you are on a hill overlooking lake). B/c it had taken me longer to get there I didn't get to finish looking at collection before it close. Upon leaving, I discovered a hotel with a cafe in great location overlooking the water - it's just to left a traffic circle on lake side. Cafe was closed but looked nice and I could get a great view of other side of lake (they had map so you could figure out UN etc.). Then saw a little hiking sign so instead of walking down annoying road again, took cool path right down to lake! Then walked back along the lake visiting the 2 parks (La Grange and Eaux Vives) and the historic Eaux Vives inn on the lake. Along the lake there are the predictable places to get overpriced and not good snacks but I finally found a cute cafe and had some wine watching the sunset over the lake! Then continued walking into to town and went over to right bank and checked out the promenade on that side of lake and went into 3 of the famous hotels. Stopped by my hotel to change and then had a 10pm dinner in the Vielle Ville.

MONDAY checked out of hotel, took tram to international area and went on tour of UN and then went to Red Cross Museum (the 5th and final museum I planned to visit that was on the museum passport) and then to the Ariana Museum (free) which houses Switzerland's ceramic collection. Then went to the Botanical Garden - by now it was 5pm and the greenhouses were closed) but it was still beautiful. Walked back along this side of the lake checking out Park Repos and some more famous hotels and an outside photo exhibit (walk took about 40 minutes). This was the day of the 70th anniversary of laying the first stone for the League of Nations so was cool to be there on that day as there were some special exhibits. As this is also the 150th anniversary of the Red Cross so there was a photo exhibit on world conflicts along the water as I walked back. Went over to see the Monument to the Reform but it was getting dark so I couldn't get a good photo. Monument was in a cool park that had people playing giant chess games.

I was supposed to go to Montreux that night (had prepaid hotel reservation) but I felt that I had was a bit rushed in Geneva. I thought I was packing a lot in (never any time for lunch even!) but after 3 days, I'd never stopped for lunch at a cafe overlooking the water, hadn't yet swum in the lake, hadn't biked along the lake, hadn't walked out to jet d'eau, hadn't been on a boat ride, hadn't checked out the famous shopping (not much of a shopper but did at least want to look at watches!) etc. etc. SO went back to my hotel and asked them if they could call my Montreux hotel and start my 3 day stay a day later - yikes this was at 8pm the day I was supposed to arrive!! Montreux hotel said okay! Helped that concierge at Mandarin Oriental made the call. Now that weekend rates were over, cost would be $600+ at Mandarin so they helped me find a $150 3 star across from train station (not dodgy area as in many cities). This hotel gave me room on 7th (top) floor with balcony that was just over all the other (I guess 6 story) bldgs so I had a great view of the jet d'eau and even better, stunning view of Cathedral on hill all lit up at night! They also gave me one day pass for public transport. 10pm dinner again in Vielle Ville.

TUESDAY: A less structured ay (but still never had time for the outside lunch!). Checked out Ile Rousseau, back to park (discovering a beautiful shopping street along the way) to watch the chess and see the Reformation monument better (and get photo). Randomly, there was also a cool motorcycle jumping exhibition going on. Then into Vielle Ville to check out shops - had great conversation (in French) with interesting woman about the Iranian diaspora living in Switzerland. Popped into Tavel Museum (free, history of Geneva) for about 20 min and also into Musee Barbier Mueller for about 20 min (this was the 6th museum on the pass - I hadn't planned to visit but since it was free for me now with the pass and I was there, checked it out). Walked around Vielle Ville some more and then down into new city which I hadn't really seen very much other than my foray for food into the food hall on my first day. Got some expensive chocolate at special chocolate store. Then took tram this time (using my free tram pass) back along lake toward Martin Bodner foundation. Got off at bottom of my discovered hiking path and went back up. Unfortunately I was too late again to eat at the cool cafe but the museum let me back in (remembering me from Sunday) to see the rest of the collection and they gave me a cool directory to the collection as well. Then back down the hiking path to lake, taking tram half way back to go swimming at "Baby Plage". Then walked back the rest of the way and visited jet d'eau. Then walked through the Paquis which was supposed to be more "working class" - um yes, I saw women "working" on street corners - yikes! Then, happy to be staying across from station, grabbed my stuff and got on the 5:30pm train which got me to Montreux in time to go for a sunset swim in the lake!

So as you can see, I found quite a lot of varied and great things to do in Geneva!

I would stay the entire time out in either Vevey or Montreux. You can easily take the train into Geneva (about an hour) or Lausanne (1/2 hour) if you want to do some sight-seeing in either of those cities. Vevey and Montreux are both so incredibly beautiful, right along Lac Leman. I can't imagine choosing to stay in Geneva proper instead.

Farmers marekts in Vevey on Tues & Sat morning, and Montreux on Fridays are wonderful local activities. Chateux de Chillon is a must imo.

Thanks SusanC, That's a lot of information and it will be very helpful. I think we'll kind of play things by ear and if Geneva holds us we'll just stay there but take a train to Vevey or Montreaux if we tire of it--which sounds less likely after all your info than it did before your post. We'll be staying at the Edelweiss in Geneva which will make it easier to get to Chamonix where we go immediately after.

Suze, your info on Farmers Markets is normally what would sway me, but since we will be there on Christmas Day and Christmas Eve, I doubt there will be much marketing taking place. OTOH, Hahohee, may be able to take advantage of the market availability which sounds great.

julie~
actually there IS a Christmas Market in Montreux that runs until 5pm Christmas Eve day www.montreuxnoel.com

hahohee~
You can look at Helvetie Hotel in Montreux, Hostellerie de Geneve www.hotelgeneve.ch and Hotel Negociants www.hotelnegociants.ch in Vevey. Also the Riviera Lodge hostel www.rivieralodge.ch in Vevey.

suze, thanks. I'll try to get there. Could be a great thing to occupy us until sonny can get to the slopes.

I've never been in Switzerland that time of year (I've only been in November or summertimes). My friends who live in Montreux make fun of the Christmas market for being hokey, but it sounds fun to me, and doesn't stop them from going!