Just got back from our first cruise in almost three years (I wont say which line for fear of starting another war). <BR>The tips were charged to us for the entire week before the trip ever began. The brochure said they did this for &quot;our convienience&quot;. Well, what a let down in service from before when the staff were trying to work extra to please you in hopes of getting a good tip.<BR><BR>It was clear that all incentive had been taken away for them to preform since most people do little to adjust tips, so its all the same to the staff if they work hard or just put in minimum effort. The few people I spoke to said they just &quot;expected&quot; to pay the tips this new way and didn't want to appear cheap by adjusting their tip down. <BR><BR>What a shame.

Alissa,<BR>You need to know more about tipping on ships before you jump to conclusions. I have worked on 17 Cruise Ships, from 12 different major cruise line companies, over the past 26 years. Every ship has been the same: Regardless of who you gave the tips to, all the money from the envelopes, handshakes, etc was POOLED among all the service staff as soon as you departed the ship. Even if you decided not to tip your waiter, he still received a share of all the other tips. All the waiters always knew that they would be paid regardless of the service they gave you. Today, with the new auto charge systems in place, the POOLED tips are just about the same. All the waiters still know that they will get paid, regardless of the service they provide. In that respect, nothing has really changed. What has changed is the quality and sophistication of the passengers. In the old days, we worried about ladies in minks and gentlemen in dinner jackets. Which type of goose liver or caviar did they prefer?<BR>Now we have slobs in torn denims and baseball caps, trying to smuggle beer in Listerine bottles. Those are the bad ones. The good ones are the Simpsons and the Griswolds on their National Lampoon Family Cruise. Most of these people don't have a clue as to what &quot;Service&quot; really is. Most of them are worried about the price of a coke or how juicy is a hamburger. Do you miss the &quot;good old days&quot; of cruising, when the clientele was sophisticated and worldly, had traveled everywhere, spoke several languages, and knew the difference between Champagne and Vin Mousseaux? The crew on the ships misses it even more than you do.

Are you sure Alissa? &quot;Tips were charged before the trip ever began..&quot;<BR> If tips are charged to your Sign andSail card, most do not even get an impression of your charge card/cash until you sail.

Question for CharlesL - on ships that have auto tipping in place, are extra gratuities given directly to the crew in cash (above the auto charge amount) pooled as well? I was always under the impression that they were not pooled but perhaps I am wrong.

Charles, I don't know you but I would love to shake your hand. What you said was exactly right. It's the caliber of the passengers that has changed. <BR>Now, we both better hunker down 'cause the crap is going to start coming in.

Charles---I guess you told everyone a thing or 2!! I am laughing so hard I can barely type. You are a KEEPER! Very funny.

But Charles, they were saying the same thing on the Normandie in 1937, my first cruise...er...passage. The Brits stuffy, and the Americans boorish.<BR><BR>Nothing really changes.

I guess its all those slobs that are supporting more and more ships, with more and more crews receiving more and more tips. Be thankful , your elitist attitude lacks foundation, lots of nasty, despicable rich people in this world. Class knows no bounds when it comes to slobs. <BR> The problem is tipping is loosing its meaning, just another service charge , a labour tax added to the bill without the human face on it either from the giver or the receiver. I believe that was the original intent , a thank you for services well done.

Wow Charles, you opened my eyes! I had no idea tips were pooled like this. If thats the case than what is the point of tipping at all. It has lost all its meaning if I try to reward someone for special treatment and it just gets shared with everyone, including those who don't really try?

I'll be going on a cruise next month that has automatic tipping. I don't like the idea at all. I prefer to tip a person myself so they know where it's coming from as a gesture of good will. This time I will end up tipping double -I want the person to know I appreciate their service. Why did the cruise lines start this? So they don't have to pay employees a salary?

JJ<BR><BR>Quote<BR>_______________________________ _________<BR>your elitist attitude lacks foundation, lots of nasty, despicable rich people in this world. <BR>________________________________________<BR><B R>Class war, anyone?

At what income is one considered rich?

$20,000 MORE than you have.

Sir Charles<BR><BR>Standup and take a bow!!<BR><BR>From all of us who make a living in this<BR>industry we applaud you. I could not have written this better myself.<BR>I, like you have had 16yrs in this amazing industry. Truly, I have seen the<BR>world and enjoyed the esteem honor of<BR>meeting Royalty, Movie Stars, and CEO<BR>of the world's top 500 companies.<BR>However each and everyday I meet the people who make this world turn. <BR>In this ever changing world, we all <BR>expect the best for our money. Believe<BR>me when I say, myself and my colleagues are very aware of the expense involved<BR>in travel today. However, we are the<BR>true meaning of professional individuals, our service and expertise<BR>in this industry is outstanding. <BR>So to those who enjoy our service, respect and a pleasant thank you goes<BR>along way these days.<BR><BR>Happy Travels Everyone

There are still cruise companies out there that do not require tipping at all. I know my last cruise on Holland America and on Crown Odyssey were both like that. I hope they remain hold outs on the policy.

HAL's policy is &quot;tipping not required.&quot; This is not the same as &quot;tip included&quot; or &quot;no tipping.&quot; Seabourn, Silverstar, and Radisson have the tips included in their fare.<BR><BR>DK anything about Crown Odyssey.

To Charles and Golden: Do you mean to tell me that the extra envelope I give my cabin steward or waiter has to be shared? We asked our favorite waiter how it was working and he said for him it worked well as he has been on the ship for quite a while. The people who stiff him are the newlyweds. Considering the &quot;suggested&quot; tip, it is way below what the staff deserves. <BR> I can't imagine anybody arguing over paying $3.75 per day per waiter or room steward.. Frankly, very few Maitre d's earn any of their $$ I have noticed....and if they do I'm only too pleased to leave them an generous tip. You have forgotten that is the &quot;working class&quot; who really appreciate all the work that is done for them and if your going to tell me the celebrities and executives never miss tipping I can't quite believe that. I have met several upper income people who cannot bring themselves to even tip the minimum sorry to say.

Parrotmom--<BR><BR>Quote:<BR>________________________________ ________<BR>You have forgotten that is the &quot;working class&quot; who really appreciate all the work that is done for them...<BR>_______________________________________ _<BR><BR>Isn't this a little class snobbery? Sounds like the ol' sergeant who used to say &quot;Don't call me Sir. I'm not an officer--I work for a living.&quot; Or are you caught up with the Democratic Party talk about the &quot;working man.&quot; [Interestingly, it is now changed to the &quot;middle class&quot; since no one could relate.]<BR><BR>To continue<BR><BR>Quote<BR>_________________________ _______________<BR>...and if your going to tell me the celebrities and executives never miss tipping I can't quite believe that. I have met several upper income people who cannot bring themselves to even tip the minimum sorry to say.<BR>_______________________________________<BR ><BR>How do you know this?<BR><BR>In all my cruises, I have NEVER had a conversation with ANYONE about how much they tipped or the amount of their annual income.<BR><BR>Somehow, this all sounds like what you believe, rather than substantiated by personal observation or fact.

On our last cruise at our table was a Judge and an Assisant Dist. Attorney One of these gentlemen thought that the &quot;suggested&quot; tip was too high... with the exception of the Seabourne, Crystal and others of that price range...the cruise ships are aimed and marketed to a wide population. Yes, I dislike the slobs on the cruise ships and yes, I think Formal Night should be stricly enforced...We are the working class and speaking for myself and cruisers that I have met we really appreciate the excellent attention given us by staff. In my humble opinion the &quot;suggested&quot; tip per steward or waiter is much too low. One another cruise the Maitre D' was so helpful and was always checking our tables and he certainly deserved and earned our extra envelope. That all said...what of the anonymous survey taken of wait staff within the past few years telling of how they now own several homes in their country and will be starting up restaurants. Would you care to discuss the average amount of tips the wait staff makes per week--probably tax free. My secret on my favorite ship is to find a waiter that I have had before and request him. One time a Maitre D I knew asked why we didn't dine in his area (free style dining).. and I told him the service was awful. You don't have any idea how appreciative I am of not having to clean during that week or cooking and serving and I'm quite grateful to the people that do this for a living.