News inre Natalee Holloway
Nov 1st, 2005, 04:25 PM
#21
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Carrybean,
Sorry that you have been a victim of violent crimes..I really cannot imagine how anyone who goes through this must feel.
I myself did not care for Aruba and will not return..but not because of Natalee..because of the lack of laws on drugs there and young kid trafficking that I noticed.It left me with a "there's something wrong with this island" feel.
Christie
Sorry that you have been a victim of violent crimes..I really cannot imagine how anyone who goes through this must feel.
I myself did not care for Aruba and will not return..but not because of Natalee..because of the lack of laws on drugs there and young kid trafficking that I noticed.It left me with a "there's something wrong with this island" feel.
Christie
Nov 1st, 2005, 04:33 PM
#22
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Carrybean,
Thanks for posting such personal information.
It's one thing for us to observe from afar and think that we know what *should* be done and a completely different story to hear from a victim.
I think there is a certain degree of arrogance among Americans with regard to our legal system. Our system has problems too...I'll spare everyone the details of cases gone wrong.
Should the Holloway/Twitty family persevere....absolutely ! Should they expect *justice* ...absolutely !
Will that *justice* be rendered ? I don't think so.
And if this post is too political or too strident, I apologize. But you know, last night was MY holiday and I am a little weary from travelling the world on my broom. Probably time for this w/b...itch to rest.
Marion
Thanks for posting such personal information.
It's one thing for us to observe from afar and think that we know what *should* be done and a completely different story to hear from a victim.
I think there is a certain degree of arrogance among Americans with regard to our legal system. Our system has problems too...I'll spare everyone the details of cases gone wrong.
Should the Holloway/Twitty family persevere....absolutely ! Should they expect *justice* ...absolutely !
Will that *justice* be rendered ? I don't think so.
And if this post is too political or too strident, I apologize. But you know, last night was MY holiday and I am a little weary from travelling the world on my broom. Probably time for this w/b...itch to rest.
Marion
Nothing wrong with that.Wish that alot more people were like you.Thanks for the laugh.
Nov 1st, 2005, 07:58 PM
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I read that the currents around Aruba, (unlike the currents around other Carribean islands)flow out toward the open ocean instead of flowing toward the island. The article said that if you go about 1/2 mile out or more anything you throw in will wash out to sea. I suppose some people that live on Aruba would have this knowledge, especially if they are boaters. Seems like a perfect way to dispose of a body. Didn't they interview someone that captained a boat? Anyone remember that??
Nov 2nd, 2005, 01:49 AM
#25
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Carrybean: Lack of training skills aside the entire way this was handled is lame. Why? Someone got away with murder. The reasons for the botched investigation do not excuse the outcome. JM2C.
Nov 2nd, 2005, 02:06 AM
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Of course, it's lame. That was my point. That's the way it is down here. People get away with murder all the time here. Because this was a young American whose family knew to keep it in the media won't cut any ice.
Nov 2nd, 2005, 07:08 AM
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I've never desired to visit Aruba, but thanks, Carrybean, for destroying any possibility with your last statement.
Why would anyone visit an island where people routinely get away with murder & the authorities don't have the money or training to investigate?
Why would anyone visit an island where people routinely get away with murder & the authorities don't have the money or training to investigate?
Nov 2nd, 2005, 08:06 AM
#29
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OTOH how different is it elsewhere, esp. on islands less affluent? Also don't forget there is corruption everywhere. The chances of something like this happening to a tourist going to a destination where tourism dollars are so important and staying for such a limited time are remote. If you compare the murder rate in Aruba to the US your chances are very good I think. JM2C
Nov 4th, 2005, 11:11 AM
#30
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This is third world here. We're not Kansas City, Manhattan or Miami. Blood is not running in the streets. Most crime anywhere down here is among locals but don't expect every island to have Scotland Yard or the equivalent of the FBI if you get your purse snatched. Ain't gonna happen.
There is nowhere in the world that is crime-free. Crime is handled badly in many First World countries too but crime didn't keep me from moving down here & I did that AFTER I was a victim. I have also always lived alone & I'm still here to tell the tale. Maybe you'd feel safer in Manhattan, Leona but I wouldn't.
The best crime prevention tip I can give is to use basic common sense. You won't find me walking on deserted beaches at night. Don't drink too much in strange places. Don't flash lots of cash or jewelry & be aware of your surroundings at night. Keep your hotel/villa doors locked. Not too different from the kinds of things you'd do at home.
There is nowhere in the world that is crime-free. Crime is handled badly in many First World countries too but crime didn't keep me from moving down here & I did that AFTER I was a victim. I have also always lived alone & I'm still here to tell the tale. Maybe you'd feel safer in Manhattan, Leona but I wouldn't.
The best crime prevention tip I can give is to use basic common sense. You won't find me walking on deserted beaches at night. Don't drink too much in strange places. Don't flash lots of cash or jewelry & be aware of your surroundings at night. Keep your hotel/villa doors locked. Not too different from the kinds of things you'd do at home.
Nov 4th, 2005, 11:24 AM
#31
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I don't think people routinely get away with murder in Aruba. I think their arguable ineptitude is probably due more to the fact that they rarely experience violent crime on their island. When you don't deal as much with murders, you won't be as experienced with the investigative methods.
I don't know if it is comparable,although I would guess that it is, when we visited Turks and Caicos the people we spoke with (it was right when the Holloway stuff broke which is why we were talking about it) said that if a violent crime happened on their island it would be most unexpected. I think that it doesn't have as much to do with less resources in Aruba as just unfamiliarity with murder, which is unfortunately much more routine in the U.S. and European countries.
I don't know if it is comparable,although I would guess that it is, when we visited Turks and Caicos the people we spoke with (it was right when the Holloway stuff broke which is why we were talking about it) said that if a violent crime happened on their island it would be most unexpected. I think that it doesn't have as much to do with less resources in Aruba as just unfamiliarity with murder, which is unfortunately much more routine in the U.S. and European countries.
Nov 4th, 2005, 11:54 AM
#32
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There can be a case without a body. It is rare but I have worked such a case. As far as safety I have never been to Aruba but was just in Curacao. I work homicide in a major U.S. city and Curacao felt safe, much safer than most major U.S. cities. Cases are not as easy to prove as many people beleive. T.V. cops solve crimes in 45 minutes but that's T.V. I have arrested rich people as well as poor. True most rich kids get good lawyers and it's tougher to convict them. without 1st hand knowledge I would be slow to say that anyone botched the investigation. She's missing, the kids get lawyers and clam up...it's just not as easy as it looks. Also, think of this..it is news because it's rare for such a crime to occur. In a big U.S. city it's on page 6 of the newspaper
Nov 4th, 2005, 04:16 PM
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Sorry to take this off subject for the moment, but I was wonder christiegr, did you ever get my email address. I requested Fodor's send it to you a few weeks back and I just got a email from Fodor's this week and they said they just sent it to you. If you get it please give me a quick email and I will get back to you. Thanks and now back to our regular program.
Nov 5th, 2005, 04:21 AM
#34
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ONZGO,
No I did not.I get sooo much junk mail that it could have been deleted by an accident.My email is [email protected] ONZGO from fodors in bold letters so I will not over look it.
Christie
No I did not.I get sooo much junk mail that it could have been deleted by an accident.My email is [email protected] ONZGO from fodors in bold letters so I will not over look it.
Christie
Nov 5th, 2005, 08:00 PM
#36
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The media created hype about this issue is most unfortunate. In my experience the Aruban people are lovely and very helpful. They have combed the island, organised a citizen's inch by inch search of the island, had Dutch airforce planes fly over with sensitive infrared equipment designed to search for deacying bodies. What else are they supposed to do?
I am certain if an Aruban tourist was killed in the US there would be nothing even close in terms of response...even with all the money in the world. Also, I doubt that there would be outrage that the Arubans were not be allowed to move in and take over the US justice system.
The whole thing is unfortunate and, of course, one hopes that the woman is found but there is no evidence of anything yet so it is wrong to compound the problem by tarring an entire island of very decent people in the process of solving the crime.
And I am not even Aruban.
I am certain if an Aruban tourist was killed in the US there would be nothing even close in terms of response...even with all the money in the world. Also, I doubt that there would be outrage that the Arubans were not be allowed to move in and take over the US justice system.
The whole thing is unfortunate and, of course, one hopes that the woman is found but there is no evidence of anything yet so it is wrong to compound the problem by tarring an entire island of very decent people in the process of solving the crime.
And I am not even Aruban.
Nov 6th, 2005, 04:48 AM
#37
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I don't believe the citizens have been maligned, more like the botched police investigation and judicial system. Sad, sad situation. As I've said before all US travelers must use this as a wake up call to safety and being aware of your surroundings whether in the US or out of the country. Actually no matter where you travel to or from we should all be aware.
An aside to Marion: I must have really been asleep when I first read about your "trip" earlier in this post. paid more attention today. No splinters I hope.
Sandy
An aside to Marion: I must have really been asleep when I first read about your "trip" earlier in this post. paid more attention today. No splinters I hope.
Sandy
Nov 6th, 2005, 12:32 PM
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Last night on 'American's most Wanted" they said that both Dave and Beth have returned to Aruba numerous times, searching for clues and confronting the Aruban government about their investigation of Natalee's case. Just last week, Dave, discovered a makeshift memorial for Natalee. A small wooden cross, surrounded by rocks and coral and draped in rosary beads, stood just yards from where Natalee was reportedly last seen alive. Carved in the corner of the cross were the initials "N.H."
They thought the memorial seemed interesting considering the fact that it was found in an area off the beaten path, where the general public would not likely have gone. Is it just a memorial from a saddened local citizen, or the work of someone with a guilty conscience? The answer was unclear at this point.
Even though the three suspects are free, the new police chief said they will continue to investigate the connection between them and the disappearance of Natalee. The interesting thing is that he made a comment about having information about a boat and a body being dumped. Later in the broadcast he appeared to me to be "changing" i.e. becoming difficult to reach via phone and giving approval for equipment to be brought on to the island, etc.
They thought the memorial seemed interesting considering the fact that it was found in an area off the beaten path, where the general public would not likely have gone. Is it just a memorial from a saddened local citizen, or the work of someone with a guilty conscience? The answer was unclear at this point.
Even though the three suspects are free, the new police chief said they will continue to investigate the connection between them and the disappearance of Natalee. The interesting thing is that he made a comment about having information about a boat and a body being dumped. Later in the broadcast he appeared to me to be "changing" i.e. becoming difficult to reach via phone and giving approval for equipment to be brought on to the island, etc.
