Bali Explosions

Oct 1st, 2005, 04:11 PM
  #21  
 
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The Govt. of Indonesia is a democratically elected one. It reflects the attitudes of its citizens. Until the Indonesian Govt. gets serious about quashing terrorists & destroying terrorist networks instead of tolerating, fostering and harbouring them, then Indonesia should not expect to be respected and supported by the global community. Australia gives billions of dollars to Indonesia in aid and we are being targeted by people whose fanatical views are allowed to flourish in Indonesian society. I'm appalled that Australians, in particular, keep visiting a country where human beings, are judged as being "infidels" and therefore bomb fodder! Give Bali and Indonesia a miss! Only then maybe will its citizens do something about their country's tolerance of terrorism masquerading as religion.
Lyndie is offline  
Oct 1st, 2005, 04:39 PM
  #22  
 
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Lyndie - At best one can only call Indonesia a "young democracy". The election process is highly problematic, and since Suhato, all the elected presidents have limited power.

You can't really say that because the government isn't doing anything, it means the population doesn't care about Western tourists. That's absolutely false.

Now, if you want to say the majority of Spainards are cowards, then I can agree with you more, as THAT is a more established democracy.
rkkwan is offline  
Oct 1st, 2005, 05:13 PM
  #23  
 
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I'm well aware of Indonesia's political history. It's a subject taught in our schools & universities, here in Australia. Many Australians are well educated on Indonesian history and current politics and culture.

Spanish culture and history do not interest me. I've been there and would not bother going again.

What interests me is why one of our closest neighbours continues to ignore it's responsibilities. Indonesia has the ability and resources to weed out these ratbags and up until now has chosen to tolerate JI.

BTW latest death toll is 30.
Lyndie is offline  
Oct 1st, 2005, 05:14 PM
  #24  
 
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Bali's main religion is Hindhuism.
fiona is offline  
Oct 1st, 2005, 05:22 PM
  #25  
 
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Hi fiona. Yes, Bali is in the minority. What are you saying, exactly?
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Oct 3rd, 2005, 07:00 AM
  #26  
redtop
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Going to NY after 911 or going to London is safer because these countries are richer and can afford to keep them a little safer. It's also easier to keep terrorists out of a place than to keep a place safe where the terrorists live. If a place sympathises with the terrorists, it makes it even harder to keep that area safe for Westerners(even if the sympathy comes from a minority).Going into a place where some of it's inhabitants may target me for execution is not my idea of a vacation even if the majority of the inhabitants don't feel that way and are warm and wonderful.
 
Oct 3rd, 2005, 07:04 AM
  #27  
 
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redtop-- you have a lot more faith in the U.S. government's ability to keep people safe than I do. Again it's all a matter of perception. Lots of people were killed and injured by the IRA and yet our government never told people not to go to London.
glorialf is offline  
Oct 3rd, 2005, 12:09 PM
  #28  
 
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My best friend called me last Friday,Sept 30th, to see if I wanted to do lunch. I was wondering how she could do lunch when she and her teenage daughter were supposed to be leaving for Bali the next day. She then told me that her travel agent had called some days prior and said that all of the flights were booked solid, from L.A., except one with a 7hr. stopover someplace. She didn't want a 7 hr. stopover so she cancelled the trip. Good she did. They could have been there and I know that she eats at some of the seafood places on Jimbarran Bay which is the first thing that I thought about when I heard the news report. This is the third time they've had to cancel. A few years ago, they had tickets to go and were all packed and 911 hit a few days before they were to leave and planes weren't flying. So, they decided to meet me in Bangkok and go on to Singapore and take a vacation with me there instead.That's my first vacation choice. They liked it, but were still longing for Bali. Then they waited until things calmed down and rescheduled and planned again and then it was the last bombing that happened. And now this. I think that's a BIG sign for them to vacation elsewhere...although I'm aware that things can happen anywhere...but as far as I'm concerned... I'd vacation elsewhere.I did Bali once and it was very nice, but personally I've moved on. The world is big. Happy Travels!
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Oct 3rd, 2005, 01:32 PM
  #29  
 
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rkkwan, I assume your reference to Spaniards as "cowards" was because they voted out their government after the Madrid bombings? This ignores the fact that the great majority of Spaniards were opposed to the invasion of Iraq well before the bombings, and their government was set to be voted out anyway.
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Oct 3rd, 2005, 01:41 PM
  #30  
 
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Lyndie -- even in a full-fledged democracy you can't blame all of the people for their government's policies. I certainly do not want to be judged by our government's current policies since I disagree with almost all of them. I'm sure there are many Indonesians who are as strongly against terrorism as you do.
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Oct 3rd, 2005, 01:52 PM
  #31  
 
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My fiance' and I are scheduled to honeymoon in Bali from November 7 - 16. We did not hesitate in the least to continue on with our plans. I work in downtown Chicago about 1/2 mile from the Sears Tower - the largest building in the US - and a threat for the sheer magnitude of carnage that could be caused if a terrorist attack were to occur. We cannot live in fear. We have been planning and looking forward to this honeymoon for months and are so excited to visit Bali. If it is our time to go, at least we will be together. To each his own, but we are determined not to let the terrorists win.
I was worried that the shops and hotels and the island itself would be devoid of tourists, but hearing that so many people have decided to go ahead with their plans make me feel good. We will do all that we can to support the Balinese people with our tourist dollars.
ExcitedforPR is offline  
Oct 3rd, 2005, 02:13 PM
  #32  
 
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I really liked your post Guenmai, and agree with what you said..Similar thing happened to us..
TracyB is offline  
Oct 3rd, 2005, 03:51 PM
  #33  
 
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Neil_OZ - Even though the majority of Spainads, like most Europeans - are against the invasion of Iraq, Jose Maria Aznar was expected to win re-election by almost all polls before the Madrid bombing.

But you are free to draw different conclusions from mine.
rkkwan is offline  
Oct 3rd, 2005, 03:53 PM
  #34  
 
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I think everyone has to get used to the new reality that you are not safe anywhere be it New York City or Bali. And everybody has to deal with this in their own way. There is no right or wrong.

Statistically speaking you have a much greater chance of dying in a car crash on the way to the airport from your home or getting hit by lightening for that matter than you do from a terrorist incident. I know that doesn't make you feel any better but these are the cold, hard facts.

Anyway, the moral of this IMHO is just to go wherever you want and exercise reasonable caution once you get there. If we stay home they win.

Me? I live in NYC. I still take the subways, cross the bridges, and fly very often from NYC area airports etc. It's business as usual. I won't live in fear here or on vacation. YMMV.

And please - I beg you...No more politics here. I come here to escape that! ;-)
Kenstee is offline  
Oct 3rd, 2005, 04:58 PM
  #35  
 
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Perhaps you are at greater risk of dying in a car accident. However, your currency is your power. How and where you spend it has significant influence in the world.
I choose not to spend my $$$ in countries that look the other way where radical islam is practiced, especially when it targets innocent tourists - cowards!
dperry is offline  
Oct 3rd, 2005, 05:19 PM
  #36  
 
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Strong statement that I think would be pretty hard to keep to.

Radical Islam is practiced by people in many countries, including the US. The United States constitution guarantees freedom of religion, and as such, there is a whole range of religeous groups, including radicals, in the US. The US government allows radical Islam...it's a matter of law. Maybe don't spend your money in the US.

Radical anything can be a problem. Radical Christians have historically been trouble as well. Can't blame Islam really, it's just the current trend.

There are also other radical groups, some religeous and others not, that pose a threat to mainstream society. One example is the cult group Aum Shinrikyo in Japan, which was responsible for sarin gas in the Tokyo subway system. This group is still active, though not as much so now I think...so you wouldn't spend money in Japan?




KimJapan is offline  
Oct 4th, 2005, 04:54 PM
  #37  
 
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Bravo, dperry! They don't just look the other way, either. They allow JI to open and operate schools where young minds are taught the message of hatred & intolerance! Cowards, I agree!

And there is no place for religion in politics. No place at all, imho. I'll get off my VERY high horse, now, & run back to my trip planning!
Lyndie is offline  

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