dutyfree

FYI-ATL to MAD is 8:35 hours/Mad- to ATL is 10:15 hours.

Patty

I flew a BE configured 752 recently and there's noticeably less recline than BE on the 763. I find the 763 BE seats fine to sleep in and preferable to some lie flats though not the AF ones. Food is much better on DL than AF and the duvets are nice but I wish the pillow was softer. I like the Lather products.

Posting from the Wien Marriott lounge.

longboatkey

No wonder the U.S. society is in a spiral of decline. In this era of crashing markets, soaring job loss, destruction of untold trillions of capital, one worries about a seat cushion, when the air carriers themselves cannot sustain their operations.This is not the airline service we remember of 10 and 20 years ago; no more Tenderloin of Beef carved to order at your seat!!!! ADJUST to the new reality.

travelgourmet

longboatkey: What does any of that nonsens have to do with the price of tea in China?

The fact of the matter is that the customer has plenty of choices in business class seats to Europe. Heck there are plenty of choices in quality of the food and drink. There is plenty of competition in lounges and ground services. You can even choose based on schedule.

The "New Reality" is an arms race in the front of the plane to offer better and more comfortable seats. Why would you not choose the best you can get?

If one is willing and able to pay for business class, what could possibly be your rationale for encouraging them to not compare what is on offer and choose the product they like best? In short, your post makes no sense. You are encouraging people to spend their money without regard for quality. You want people to accept less than they can get elsewhere.

longboatkey

"Travelgourmet" you seemed to have missed the direction of my comment. True service has disappeared from the Air industry. Now they are the bus lines of 30 years ago. There is no incentive to provide superior service. Price leads the market. When the govt. had the C.A.B. then there was no pricing ability; the only way they competed for your business was true service. Remember the first class piano bars on the L-1011s, where there was real caviar and French champagne??? Not this hokey excuse for service that the airlines are forced into since they have no $$$ for true improvments.

rkkwan

International Business and FC seats are better than ever, and there are significant difference in the seats among the various airlines. Therefore, a question like the one OP asked is totally relevant.

travelgourmet

longboatkey: I think you haven't flown international First or Biz in a long, long time. The experience in the back of the bus stinks (though the price to quality ratio is light-years ahead of the L-1011 days), but up front it is very, very good and the seats, in particular are the best ever. "Back in the day", business class seats were the equivalent of today's domestic First seats.

- You want caviar? Fly Lufthansa First.

- You want Krug? Fly Singapore in First.

- You want true flat beds in biz? Fly BA, Virgin, New Zealand, Delta (some flights), Singapore (Some flights).

- You want double beds? Fly in a Singapore suite.

- You want showers? Fly Emirates F on an A380.

- You want restaurant-style food from an American carrier? Fly Delta.

- Would you like pre-flight dining with table service? Fly BA from the East Coast.

- Want a lounge that will blow your mind? Try Virgin at Heathrow, grab a massage at one of the new lounges at T5, sit at the bar at Cathay's Hong Kong lounge, or fly First Class on Lufthansa through Frankfurt.

- Too posh to sit in a cab? Fly Virgin and get a limo ride thrown in for free, or fly CO and take the helicopter from Manhattan to Newark.

Heck, every carrier I have flown in biz, still offers French champagne, even if it is not usually Krug. Heck, BA offers splits of Monopole (not the best but not the worst) on intra-European biz flights.

Personally, as someone that doesn't pay thousands of dollars for "service", piano bars, and caviar, I greatly prefer the modern era. I would much rather focus on seat comfort, personal space, and (with foreign carriers - US carriers stink on this) ground service/lounges.

mrwunrfl

"ground service" What does that mean?

longboatkey

"Travelgour"....Well, I think your diatribe is just supporting my thesis. As far as current travel; I have 6 biz trips a year to Milan, as well as several personal trips to our place in Abruzzo. All are biz class, if a stop is needed in G.B. an occasional Virgin Upper Class, {B.A. is superior), the ground fluff is a mass market joke. Tattered clubs phony "perks". Never used Cathay, but Singapore is my preferred and has been for many years, even though now we only have a business connection in Malaysia, so annual trip is all I do there.
In conclusion your perspective is most likely hampared by your being born 20 years too late...... lol...Just an observation. As far as domestic travel, I do not think a comment is worth the effort.
Do not even try to do a food comparison/evaluation. You cannot eat what is passed off as edible now. Pre-cooked sous vida is not my idea of good food.

travelgourmet

<i>Do not even try to do a food comparison/evaluation.</i>

Why would I? Who is stupid enough to pay $2500+ for a meal and some drinks? I pay for personal space and a more comfortable seat. All the other stuff is beside the point. Nobody offered a seat 20 years ago that is anywhere near the equal of what is on offer today from any airline this side of Icelandair.

mrwunrfl

tg, you now say that seat comfort and personal space are important and everything else is irrelevant. But previously you wrote that a third thing was important to you - ground service. I would like to know what you meant by it because you slammed all US airlines for being deficient in ground service. Do you just mean airport lounges, or what? lounges and phone access?

travelgourmet

<i>Do you just mean airport lounges, or what?</i>

Yes.

But, I should clarify, I would never pay extra for the ground service, but I do consider it when choosing which carrier to fly.

As for slagging the US carriers, I would offer that no US carrier offers lounges that compete with most European and Asian carriers. And it isn't even close. The average US carrier's lounge product consists of some (hopefully) comfortable chairs, a tv, peanut-type snacks (if you are lucky) and some middling booze. Even a lousy European carrier like KLM gives you that.

rkkwan

When you're flying business class between North America and Europe on NW or KL (or DL or AF for that matter), you get to use the exact same clubs at all US and European airports.

So, I don't see what the big deal is.

travelgourmet

<i>NW or KL (or DL or AF for that matter), you get to use the exact same clubs at all US and European airports.</i>

Which is why I noted that I consider KLM to be a sub-par carrier. And it is one of the reasons (along with flat beds) why I greatly prefer BA when traveling biz, as their lounge product is much better. Indeed, even their small outpost lounges are consistently good.