Hi Fodorites,

Like lots of people I've spent a lot of time lurking on this board doing research, but now that it's time to start planning my trip I've taken the plunge...

I'm in the beginning stage of planning a 3 week (or so) trip to Africa in 2008. (I know it's early, but I like to take lots of time to plan my trips). I'll probably be traveling alone unless I can convince my sister to join me (she is afraid of bugs) and will be using frequent flier miles for the flights from here (San Francisco) to Africa.

A bit of background...this will be my second trip to Africa. I went to Kenya last year (I love the BBC series Big Cat Diary so I wanted to visit the Masai Mara). I loved seeing the animals, but it felt like there were way too many tourists...sometimes I felt like I was on a car viewing safari rather than a game viewing safari. I still wonder how the BBC avoids having tons of white vans in all of their shots...

So for this trip I want to go somewhere much more remote, where there are very few tourists and it is not so commercial. Great game viewing (especially of the big cats) is my top priority (though I have nothing against luxury).

Based on what I read here, it seems like the best choices for my 2008 trip would be Botswana or Zambia. I bought the Bradt guides to both countries, and they both sound so wonderful to me. I would definitely would like to see the Okavango Delta, and the huge elephant herds near the Zambezi river (Lower Zambezi Park).

I also like the idea of mixing game viewing with walking and other activities (it seems like Zambia has more activity options than Botswana). I've always wanted to try bungee jumping so I think I'd also like to spend a night or two in Vic Falls.

But I've also read that South Africa is a great place to see the big cats up close (in the Sabisands). I've never seen a leopard (my guide said he saw one in Kenya but it was more of a blob in tree), and the Sabisands seems like the best place to see them up close...

Is it possible to do all three countries in three weeks (counting travel time from San Francisco)? Or is this crazy? Would it be better to stick with one or two countries?

Thanks!

Moira

What time of year were you thinking of going, or are you flexible? Given that you can't get FF tickets until about 330 days prior to your return date, hopefully you can go at the "best" time of year. Tell your sister that she will be pleasantly surprised at the few number of bugs!

I think you could work up a nice 3-week itinerary that would include Botswana (2 delta camps, land-based and water-based), a Savuti/Linyati camp, Victoria Falls, a Lower Zambezi camp, then back to SA and a Sabi Sands camp. We did that this year, minus the Lower Zambezi in two weeks. You'll love the absolute "wildness" of Botswana and Zambia! The camps are beautiful and you'll probably never see more than 2 or 3 other vehicles, if that. The Sabi Sands reserves also limit the number of vehicles at sightings. I stayed at Kirkman's so that my fellow travelers could see leopards and rhinos. We saw 'em on our first drive! We also saw leopards at Chitabe in the Delta, but SS is definitely leopard heaven!

Hi ShayTay,

Thanks for your post! Since it's so far in advance I can be flexible and request my vacation time to match the best time to go. I'm pretty sure I could get whatever dates I request...as a single person I have worked a lot of holidays so my co-workers could spend time with their kids, so they owe me!

I read in the Bradt books that the best time is in the "winter" which sounds like it would be our summer, from June to October. That's a pretty big time range, though...when would you recommend? It would be nice if it was warm (I'm a California girl!) but not too dusty so I can get some nice pictures.

How many days did you spend at each camp? What was your itinerary? Some people here seem to spend weeks at one camp, and others move around a lot. I really didn't like the long drives between camps in Kenya, but it sounds like I will be mostly flying in Zambia and Botswana so maybe moving between camps will be easier.

Would you recommend Kirkman's? I haven't seen it mentioned often here.

Moira

Sorry, forgot to say thanks for the info on leopards...Sabisands is definitely on the list now!

Moira

2008, yeah, that's what I call plan ahead.
We just got back from these three countries a month ago, Sep 2006. One nice long 18 camp nights of safari. I did a trip report pieces of which you migh find useful. It is at - http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34881694
If this link does not work, go back to about message number 213 titled "SAFARI 2006, Carolyn and Tom, So. Africa, Zambia, Kenya"
regards - tom

Hi Tom,

Wow, your trip report is amazing (and so are your photos!) Now I'm wondering if I should switch to DSLR. I have a Panasonic FZ20 that I bought a couple of years ago. It worked pretty well for my Kenya trip, but the viewfinder was hard to use when it started getting darker. I was thinking about getting a new camera for this trip so maybe I'll look into a DSLR.

But first things first...I need to plan my trip!

Mala Mala sounds awesome. I think I've found my Sabisands camp! I've noticed that a lot of Fodorites stay there and really like it. I looked it up on line and saw that they have three camps. Did you stay at the Main camp, the Sable camp, or Rattrays? (I think any of them look fine, just curious really).

A friend in England recommended the Robin Pope camps and said that she had great game viewing there. But it sounds like that wasn't the case for you. Did your wife enjoy the walking?

It's funny, I stayed at Little Governors too. Since you have been to both, did you feel that Kenya was more crowded than Zambia and South Africa?

Thanks!

Moira

Hi Moira,

Ruth and I returned from our first African safari ever, to Zambia, on Oct. 9, and it was a dream come true. No, better. A high priority was uncrowded conditions, and I can verify that is what we found on the Lower Zambezi. In our stays at Chiawa and Old Mondoro, we saw a (one) vehicle from another camp only a couple of times the six nights total we were there--and we went on every day/night game drive, walks, and canoeing. And, elephants everywhere, including rubbing up against our tent while gathering winter thorne pods. Along with lions every day and night, leopards, and a too close encounter with a hippo, plus so many other critters it was hard to keep track.

I've started a trip report on the first part of the trip at "Zambia--what an amazing journey!" which includes getting there and our stay at Chiawa (first class all the way-- accommodations, guides, food)) The pics were just from our P&S's, but I just got some of the slides from the SLR digitized so will be posting more soon.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Lower Zambezi sounds perfect...only one other car, lots of elephants, and so many different activities. The Bradt guide (or maybe it was a post here, I don't remember) said that you can canoe from one camp to the next which sounds really exciting...did you do this?

What made you choose Zambia for your trip? As you can tell I'm having problems choosing which country or countries to visit...how did you decide?

Moira

Seven nights in the south luangwa valley walking amongs th the bushcamps.

followed by a couple of nights in livingstone, vic falls, bungee jumping and the rest, maybe make that three nights.

then spend six nights with Ilsnads in Africa.
two at Ntwala as a base for the river safari up the chobe, Continue on by air or road as your budget dictates to Susuwe in the Caprivi National Park.

Date of trip. 20 October to mid-November. I would almost say you are guaranteed of the big cats in both the SLV and Caprivi. Plus you will see more elephant than you evere dreamed of, both in the chobe and up the kwando at susuwe.


You can extend for a couple of days in SA to take in the Sabi Sands, there budget will dictate which you choose, but don't be mislead into beliveing that game viewing is better at one or the other: It is good throughout, your accommodation style nad budget will dictate your preferences.

Hi Moire,

Yes, we canoed from Sausage Tree Camp to Old Mondoro down the Chifungula (sp) channel. That's where Ruth was dumped out of her canoe by a hippo. But, we can't wait to go do it again!

I almost hesitate to mention how we found our way to Zambia because don't want to get Rocco, a frequent poster here in trouble again. We were just as confused about all the safari possibilities, but wanted to be in small camps, without too many other camps around, and wanted to be around water, plus, of course good game viewing opportunities.

We eventually found our way to Fodor's. Rocco was very helpful and enthusiastic about Zambia, and he seemed to quickly tune into our desires.

We started communicating in early spring, and during the time we were homing in on what we wanted to do, Rocco had started his (with Julian) travel agency, Destiny Africa. We ended up going through him, and we couldn't have been happier.

The only disappointment was our short stay at Sausage Tree, but that was a place that I had found on my own and I wanted to fish for tiger fish. I'll comment more detail about our experience there when I get back to my trip report.

OTOH, Chiawa and Old Mondoro Bush Camp were, as I said before, beyond our wildest imaginations.

We also stayed in South Luangwa Nat. Park at the Luangwa River Lodge. It was also first class, and wonderful guide and game, but since it's located closer to the center of other camps, there were a few more vehicles than we saw on the Lower Zambezi. Nothing like what you described though in your experience, and the bush camps mentioned above are deeper into the park.

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your post...I can't wait to read your trip report. Though I'm having second thoughts about the canoeing...how common is it for people to get dumped out of the boat?

I had sort of focused in on Lower Zambezi for my Zambia portion because of the activities and the elephants. Would you recommend visiting South Luangwa too? I wouldn't mind seeing a few other cars, just not herds of them crowding the animals at sightings. I felt horrible for the cheetahs in the Mara. My guide said that they are having problems hunting because there are too many cars harrassing them and getting in the way.

Hi Mkhonzo,

Sorry to be so clueless, but where is the Caprivi Strip? Would you recommend the Chobe river area over Lower Zambezi? I read that Chobe can be crowded so I had planned to skip it.

Thanks!

Moira

Hi Mkhonzo,

Ignore the last question...next time I will search first and post second!

I found out Caprivi is in Namibia. From what I read here it sounds like this is not a great area to see the big cats, but I was only able to find one report (from Jiggylou). Did you see big cats there?

Moira

MalaMala would be a great place to stay in Sabi Sands. Kirkman's used to be a part of MalaMala and shares some traversing rights with MM. Main Camp would be fine; all MM camps have the same game drive areas and, IMO, you don't need over-the-top camps. Kirkman's is less expensive than MM, but doesn't have as much land area in which to drive. That said, you'd still see LOTS. We saw the Big 5 on one drive and that was in February when the river was high and our driving area was cut in half. I believe CC Africa now runs Kirkman's, so you might find a package deal with CC Africa camps in Botswana. As to how many days in each camp, try to stay at least 3.

Caprivi Strip was mentioned; it's across the river from the Kwando, Savuti and Linyati areas of Botswana. Because of poaching problems, their wildlife viewing isn't as good as Botswana. It's an area that's coming back, but I think you'd be happier in Botswana.

Moira,

You're going back! I'm an early planner as well, working on Africa 2008.

If you end up in Botswana, you actually are not that early. 2008 is filling up in the winter months.

Here is a Southern Africa trip report index link where you can read about many trips.

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34858382

For cats, especially leopard, I think Mala Mala is ideal. My first trip there will be in June of 2007.

Phinda in South Africa is a cheetah conservation area. That's the other place I'm headed in June.

Either Zambia or Botswana would be winners in my opinion and would complement South Africa nicely. That Chifungulu Channel canoe trip in the LZ, mentioned by Steeliejim, takes a day and is truly outstanding. Getting dunked is highly unusual and I would not be concerned about it.

Zambia is known for walking, which you mentioned you were interested in, so I think a SA and Zambia combo would be a logical combo for 3 weeks.

Kafue in Zambia is noted for lions and I spent several days with a pride in Busanga Plains. I believe Kafue is the only Zambian park where you can see cheetah. I saw four there.

South Luangwa has a good rep for leopards. I've seen one at dusk, a couple at night, and one on a walk in that park.

North Luangwa has a very strong emphasis on walking and you have a decent chance of seeing lions on foot. There is a recent post of a Fodorite who stayed at Buffalo Camp in North Luangwa and saw lions on foot. I saw 3 walking from Kutandala Camp in N. Luangwa.

I am unhappy to read about the harrassed cheetahs in the Mara. Not good for anyone, especially the cats.

Here is a link as to what parks are best when. It coincides with your comment on going in winter. Best is defined as best wildlife viewing. That also means the highest prices.

http://www.africa-adventure.com/dsp_besttime.html

In 3 weeks, you could see all 3 countries with something like this

4-6 SA
6 Botsw--something like Little Vumbura
and Savuti for 3 nts each
5-6 LZ in Zambia
allow 5-6 days for travel to/from/within Africa

Though 3 works well, I'd pick 2 countries, especially if you think you might ever return for a third time.

Good luck with the exciting planning process and please post your progress.

I agree with ShayTay that it is very possible to do each Botswana, Lower Zambezi and the Sabi Sand in three weeks, providing that you are not also trying to force in Cape Town or elsewhere.

I would suggest an itinerary, as follows:

Johannesburg - 1 night to recover from long journey, preferably in the Sandton area.

Okavango Delta - 3 nights at land camp, 2 nights at water camp

Linyanti or Kwando concession - 3 nights

Victoria Falls - 2 nights, preferably on the Zim side if you are going in high season for the best views of the falls, but if on the Zambian side at least doing a tour of the Zim side

Lower Zambezi - 4 nights

Johannesburg - 1 nights, preferably in the Sandton area.

Sabi Sand - 4 nights, preferably at the same camp.

TOTAL TIME = 20 nights. If you have an extra night, add it to Botswana, but not necessarily at the water camp, but probably at the Linyanti/Kwando concession camp.

The Lower Zambezi is a very special place and it may very well be my favorite park in Africa. What it lacks in predators, it more than makes up for in elephants, hippos, crocodiles and, especially, in its safari activities and owner operated camps.

Good luck.

Moira,

I wouldn't hop around all over the place....you sound like you are the kind that has been bitten by the "Africa bug" and are likely to return...

SO, i would do no more than two countries in a 3 week trip- Zambia and Botswana perhaps. Honestly, you can do either country over a 3 week stay. If you want to maximize your game viewing chances, you need to spend time at a location and not shuttle around too much.....

The others can give you great inputs on Zambia, so will leave your choice of camps to them.......

Here's some great choice of camps in Botswana for you to pick:

Linyanti/Selinda/Kwando: Dumatau, Savuti, Selinda, Zibalianja, Lebala, Lagoon

Water camp: Kwara/little Kwara/Little Vumbura/Kwetsani

Land delta camp:Chitabe/Mombo

For all out luxuary:Kingspool, Mombo, Jao.......

You can add a trip to the Kalahari/Makgadigadi pans where the following camps are: Deception valley lodge, Jack's camp and San camp.

Lots of info for you to get started....

Hari

Hi Moira-
To answer your questions-
1) -Did you stay at the Main camp, the Sable camp, or Rattrays? (I think any of them look fine, just curious really).- Main camp Mala.
2)-A friend in England recommended the Robin Pope camps and said that she had great game viewing there. But it sounds like that wasn't the case for you. Did your wife enjoy the walking?-
What is she comparing the game drives at Robin Pope with? By comparison with other camps, I found not. My wife loves to walk. We have walked the Camino de Santiago from the French border to Santiago Spain, 480 miles. I did it once, she has done it several times but from closer starting points in Spain, e.g Burgos, Leon. She really liked her two walks at Robin Pope. She would love to do fly camping.
3)-did you feel that Kenya was more crowded than Zambia and South Africa?-
Yes, at some Mara sightings there were 10 vehicles. They were all polite and did not cut in front of one another. But that many vehicles very much limits your position possibilities. At Zambia (RP) two vehicles at a sighting. At Mala no more than 3 at a sighting. They have great regulations for the number of vehicles at sighting and how they move about.
Camera, the primary reason I went with DSLR is the viewfinder on a SLR. I simply can not tolerate the EVF on a camera like the FZ20 or the Canon S2 that we used in 2005 and that I took for backup in 2006.
It's great fun planning the trip, isn't it?
regards - tom
ps - I have reservaton at Mala for six nights Sept 2007

Hi Moira --

Congratulations, I'm sure you'll enjoy both the trip and the planning!

I've visited both Sabi Sands and Botswana (different trips) as a single traveler, and, as you must have figured out by now, both are fantastic.

If I were planning such a trip for myself, I would begin in Sabi Sands, where you are likely to find a higher concentration of game/cats, especially leopard. I would begin the trip at Sabi Sands with its higher game (and people) density, then head over to the Zambezi and Botswana having eased into the Africa Feeling.

You will lose about a day and a half traveling in each direction, and I'd certainly recommedn that you plan a decent night's sleep en route before getting to a camp.

Gosh, Moire, I'd never thought I'd ever disagree with Rocco, me being such a newbie and all. But on the subject of predators in the Lower Zambezi, I have to respectfully dissent.

There were two resident prides of lions close to Chiawa, one on each side. One is a small pride of five and the other a pride of nine (although Douglas, the wonderful male, seems to be the pride male for both (so maybe they are more properly called prides of 8 1/2 and 4 1/2). We saw them every day and/or night. We tracked the pride of five on foot one morning but lost the sign. Exciting though, as Joe said they were probably watching us as we walked through the brush. Saw them hunting that evening, though, and the next morning they were laying fully in sight within 200 meters of our tent.

We did not see an actual kill, but we saw the lions hunting several times, day and night, and on a fresh kill, an impala which they tore apart and devoured within minutes.

Leopards were a little more iffy, but the first night we had a wonderful, if troubling, sighting of a mom leopard, impala kill, and her two cubs in a tree with hyenas milling around the base trying to get at them. Watched them for at least 10 minutes with snarling, growling, hissing, and a tremendous commotion all around until the hyenas finally gave up. Mom came down, moving to another nearby, more open tree (trying to distract the hyenas we were told).

We had one other good sighting one night. Ruloph, at old Mondoro (I think I goofed when I wrote on the other thread that it was Joe at Chiawa) would occasionally turn off the engine and spotlight, and we would just listen--and feel. It's impossible to describe the feeling as I sat, silent, in the blackness, all of my feeble human senses raised to another level, trying, and failing, to absorb, the life, and wildness all around.

He heard the low grunts and coughs of a male marking its territory. And when Ruloph turned the spot back on, there it was, a magnificent male walking slowly, pausing occasionally, in front of us!

Oh yes, servals. We saw two, one the usual (so we were told) briefest of glimpses, and the other, an amazing, even to Ruloph, long, up close (it walked up within inches, and past the LC) sighting of a serval hunting. We even saw it do one of those crouches and leaps (it missed though) servals are noted for.

So, maybe were just lucky, and I guess that is the case with leopards (at least ones that are not being baited (see the thread on that topic) and certainly servals, but lions seem to be a sure a thing. Although we wondered at the vulnerability of the prides considering that Douglas was the only adult male for both.

And, yes, we did have lots of lion sightings at South Lunagwa, too, and a good leopard sighting. Probably the most memorable was watching a lioness, alone, stalking impala for over 1/2 hour at a water hole in the late afternoon until the wind changed direction slightly and blew her cover. We were the only ones there the whole time(humans, that is, because there was a fat hippo sleeping in the middle, fish eagles, cranes, and warthogs coming and going).

Jim

Hi,

Thank you to everyone for your generous responses! I can't believe that Botswana is already filling up in the winter months...I thought I had plenty of time to plan. Good thing I started early!

Atravelynn, thank you for pointing me to the trip report index. I'm in the middle of reading one report now which seems to like it should be a novel...the link to the when to go chart was really helpful too. It looks like the "winter" is definitely the best time to go, though I will be sad to miss out on summer in California.

I'm completely torn on the 3 countries versus 2 countries question...I do think I will be back but it will probably not be until two or three years after this trip, so it might be a long wait. There are so many things I want to see, but I don't want to rush around so much that I end up missing out on things...I think I definitely want to do the Sabi Sand for the big cat viewing, so if I did only two countries I would need to choose between Botswana and Zambia.

Thanks for your camp recommendations, Hari. I'll look them up. But I have to admit that I don't really understand the attraction of the Makadigadi (sp?) Pans. Have you been there? What makes it special?

Thanks!

Moira