Where to go in 2008 - Botswana, Zambia, SA?
Nov 5th, 2006, 04:02 PM
#21
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The pans are spectacular, Moira. I have been to Jack's camp. I dont have a trip report as it was prior to my fodors days....but, i highly recommend. You get a chance to see Meerkats, Brown hyenas, the pans themselves that are unique, flamingoes, and you can go quad biking on the pans during the dry winter months. For Deception valley, i think Predator Biologist has a nice trip report from his 2006 visit. Do a search for it on the index.....
Predators in Botswana: Lion prides including Big Pride males (common feature everywhere), leopard, cheetah, wild dog, spotted hyena, serval, other smaller cats etc etc., you need to find camps that are more diverse to the wide variety of predators. (if that's what u are looking for). For the above, my recommendations include : Chitabe, Kwara, Lebala, Zibalianja/selinda, Mombo
There are detailed wild dog planning insights on Sherry's current thread.....cheetah good chance at Chitabe, Zibalianja/selinda, Lebala, Kwara, Little vumbura.
Hari
Predators in Botswana: Lion prides including Big Pride males (common feature everywhere), leopard, cheetah, wild dog, spotted hyena, serval, other smaller cats etc etc., you need to find camps that are more diverse to the wide variety of predators. (if that's what u are looking for). For the above, my recommendations include : Chitabe, Kwara, Lebala, Zibalianja/selinda, Mombo
There are detailed wild dog planning insights on Sherry's current thread.....cheetah good chance at Chitabe, Zibalianja/selinda, Lebala, Kwara, Little vumbura.
Hari
Nov 5th, 2006, 07:20 PM
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Hi Moira,
I feel your pain as one who up until recently had to make some of the same decisions.
Read, read, read, search sites and ask here and it will all magically fall into your lap. Do check out those invaluable and priceless S. African reports.
My current thread 'botswana camps' under cybor has some excellent advice from many fodorites who have been to southern Africa on numerous occasions.
Best of luck to you!
Sherry
I feel your pain as one who up until recently had to make some of the same decisions.
Read, read, read, search sites and ask here and it will all magically fall into your lap. Do check out those invaluable and priceless S. African reports.
My current thread 'botswana camps' under cybor has some excellent advice from many fodorites who have been to southern Africa on numerous occasions.
Best of luck to you!
Sherry
Nov 6th, 2006, 03:25 PM
#23
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Moira
I've been to Mala Mala nine times and will return in ten weeks for my tenth trip. I stay at both Main Camp and Rattrays. Though I think Main Camp is perfect, Rattrays is very luxurious and we enjoy it almost as a bush honeymoon at the end of our wet, summer safari.
For more information on Mala Mala and particularly on what you are likely to see, visit the cyberdiary at www.malamala.tv
This is updated weekly with most sightings and also gives great insight with six years of history for both resident Lions and Leopards.
I've been to Mala Mala nine times and will return in ten weeks for my tenth trip. I stay at both Main Camp and Rattrays. Though I think Main Camp is perfect, Rattrays is very luxurious and we enjoy it almost as a bush honeymoon at the end of our wet, summer safari.
For more information on Mala Mala and particularly on what you are likely to see, visit the cyberdiary at www.malamala.tv
This is updated weekly with most sightings and also gives great insight with six years of history for both resident Lions and Leopards.
Nov 6th, 2006, 05:06 PM
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Hi SteelieJim,
I am glad you have chipped in with your experience.
In this case I am guilty of erring on the side of caution and I am repeating more of what has been said by others than what I have personally experienced...I really shouldn't do this because, really, a lot of this comes from operators who are TRYING to steer away clients from Lower Zambezi, and here I am falling prey to their comments, myself.
I will say that in September 2005, I came across three different lion prides during my six nights at Kasaka River Lodge and Chongwe River Camp, and one of the prides was on a very fresh kill. Fortunately, Alexsandra and I were with another couple who was very much into photography and we just stayed there and watched for no less than 60 minutes, but more like 90 minutes.
I have had less success with leopards in the Lower Zambezi than in South Luangwa, for example, but the lions seem to be doing well and from reports from a few of the camps, such as Chiawa's newsletters, the leopards are doing better and better each year.
I see some urging that the concentration on the safari be in Botswana, but it is just as easily argued that it instead be in Zambia, focusing at least on Lower Zambezi and South Luangwa, but also there is North Luangwa and Kafue to consider, as well.
About the Lower Zambezi...I am going crazy because I miss it so much. I am trying to arrange something I have not yet seen done on this board...next June/July, I believe I will be spending 10 nights on the Zambezi, 5 nights in Lower Zambezi and 5 nights in Mana Pools. It is a not very complicated border crossing that should allow me a road/boat transfer leaving after the morning activity & breakfast, and arriving in the other park prior to the afternoon game activity.
Probably something like:
Ruckomechi (2)
Vundu (3)
Old Mondoro (3)
Chiawa (2)
(with about 12 other Zim nights preceding those nights)
I really think that a safari that includes Victoria Falls (2), Hwange (4), Mana Pools (4), Lower Zambezi (4) and South Luangwa (6) would be an incredible way to go for anyone able to do a three week safari.
I am glad you have chipped in with your experience.
In this case I am guilty of erring on the side of caution and I am repeating more of what has been said by others than what I have personally experienced...I really shouldn't do this because, really, a lot of this comes from operators who are TRYING to steer away clients from Lower Zambezi, and here I am falling prey to their comments, myself.
I will say that in September 2005, I came across three different lion prides during my six nights at Kasaka River Lodge and Chongwe River Camp, and one of the prides was on a very fresh kill. Fortunately, Alexsandra and I were with another couple who was very much into photography and we just stayed there and watched for no less than 60 minutes, but more like 90 minutes.
I have had less success with leopards in the Lower Zambezi than in South Luangwa, for example, but the lions seem to be doing well and from reports from a few of the camps, such as Chiawa's newsletters, the leopards are doing better and better each year.
I see some urging that the concentration on the safari be in Botswana, but it is just as easily argued that it instead be in Zambia, focusing at least on Lower Zambezi and South Luangwa, but also there is North Luangwa and Kafue to consider, as well.
About the Lower Zambezi...I am going crazy because I miss it so much. I am trying to arrange something I have not yet seen done on this board...next June/July, I believe I will be spending 10 nights on the Zambezi, 5 nights in Lower Zambezi and 5 nights in Mana Pools. It is a not very complicated border crossing that should allow me a road/boat transfer leaving after the morning activity & breakfast, and arriving in the other park prior to the afternoon game activity.
Probably something like:
Ruckomechi (2)
Vundu (3)
Old Mondoro (3)
Chiawa (2)
(with about 12 other Zim nights preceding those nights)
I really think that a safari that includes Victoria Falls (2), Hwange (4), Mana Pools (4), Lower Zambezi (4) and South Luangwa (6) would be an incredible way to go for anyone able to do a three week safari.
Nov 6th, 2006, 05:50 PM
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Hi,
Hari, thanks for explaining about the pans. I'm not sure I will have time to visit them if I do all 3 countries, but if I only do Botswana and South Africa I will definitely look in to this more carefully. I would really like a more active safari (not just sitting in Land Rovers all day) and the quad biking sounds fun.
Napamatt, thanks for the link to the game sightings website...the people at Mala Mala know so much about the history of their big cats, it's incredible. I bet this really adds to the experience of seeing them. Main Camp will be more than fine for me. But I'm curious...is there some reason you don't stay at the Sable camp?
I don't think I'm quite ready to start picking camps yet, but when I am I'll definitely look at Cybor's thread. It sounds like we like similar types of camps.
Rocco, I'm not sure I'm quite adventurous enough to go to Zimbabwe...my sister definitely isn't, and I still hope to talk her into coming with me if I can convince her that there are not too many bugs.
Anyone have any hints on how to persuade a reluctant bug-phobic sister to come to Africa?
Moira
Hari, thanks for explaining about the pans. I'm not sure I will have time to visit them if I do all 3 countries, but if I only do Botswana and South Africa I will definitely look in to this more carefully. I would really like a more active safari (not just sitting in Land Rovers all day) and the quad biking sounds fun.
Napamatt, thanks for the link to the game sightings website...the people at Mala Mala know so much about the history of their big cats, it's incredible. I bet this really adds to the experience of seeing them. Main Camp will be more than fine for me. But I'm curious...is there some reason you don't stay at the Sable camp?
I don't think I'm quite ready to start picking camps yet, but when I am I'll definitely look at Cybor's thread. It sounds like we like similar types of camps.
Rocco, I'm not sure I'm quite adventurous enough to go to Zimbabwe...my sister definitely isn't, and I still hope to talk her into coming with me if I can convince her that there are not too many bugs.
Anyone have any hints on how to persuade a reluctant bug-phobic sister to come to Africa?
Moira
Nov 6th, 2006, 08:25 PM
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Moira,
I agree with Hari, but then we have very similar tastes.
My first safaris involved several fairly widespread locations in southern and east Africa (although each had the same guide throughout). However, most of the rest (all in Botswana) were each spent in just one concession, and the last one involved two neighbouring concessions. I love to immerse myself in a locality, and learn about it and its wildlife in some depth.
My next safari is likely to involve a change of scene, Zambia, but again it will be just one concession.
I think if your safari is likely to be the once-in-a-lifetime experience, then it makes sense to sample a few or even several locations. After moving from place to place in my first two safaris, I realised I would be returning to Africa as often as possible, and thought it would be madness to keep skimming the surface at great cost.
John
I agree with Hari, but then we have very similar tastes.
My first safaris involved several fairly widespread locations in southern and east Africa (although each had the same guide throughout). However, most of the rest (all in Botswana) were each spent in just one concession, and the last one involved two neighbouring concessions. I love to immerse myself in a locality, and learn about it and its wildlife in some depth.
My next safari is likely to involve a change of scene, Zambia, but again it will be just one concession.
I think if your safari is likely to be the once-in-a-lifetime experience, then it makes sense to sample a few or even several locations. After moving from place to place in my first two safaris, I realised I would be returning to Africa as often as possible, and thought it would be madness to keep skimming the surface at great cost.
John
Nov 6th, 2006, 08:53 PM
#28
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One more thing.....what makes these boards an interesting place is that all of us here have favourite destinations be it countries, camps/lodges or animals/birds. Most of us have no hesitation in sharing our enthusiasm for our favourite spots that mean something special to us......
Honestly, you can't go wrong with any of these choices....Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa....it's upto YOU to do the research required to match YOUR needs. Good luck!!!
Hari
Honestly, you can't go wrong with any of these choices....Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa....it's upto YOU to do the research required to match YOUR needs. Good luck!!!
Hari
Nov 7th, 2006, 04:00 AM
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Moira
We have stayed at Sable a couple of times, in essence it is a sub section of main camp, with I think 12 guests. It has its own pool, bar, boma etc and is very nice. Also you are 4 per vehicle, which is great, particularly if you have lots of stuff. Also if like us you travel with another couple then the four of you get your own vehicle which is nice. At Main Camp I don't think you ever really notice the fact that there are up to 36 guests, the whole experienced is so well managed, and there is so much space, you just don't seem to be aware of them.
I love lots of camps in Botswana, but Mala Mala is the only place where I feel like I'm coming home, and yes the knowledge of the cat's history is amazing, certainly the record keeping is much stronger in SA than in Botswana in my experience. I am up to the 3rd and 4th generation of some Leopard families and that is a very special feeling.
The really great thing about wherever you choose is that many of us have similar feelings about many different camps in SA, Bots, Zim and Zam, so you are really are embarking on a special journey.
We have stayed at Sable a couple of times, in essence it is a sub section of main camp, with I think 12 guests. It has its own pool, bar, boma etc and is very nice. Also you are 4 per vehicle, which is great, particularly if you have lots of stuff. Also if like us you travel with another couple then the four of you get your own vehicle which is nice. At Main Camp I don't think you ever really notice the fact that there are up to 36 guests, the whole experienced is so well managed, and there is so much space, you just don't seem to be aware of them.
I love lots of camps in Botswana, but Mala Mala is the only place where I feel like I'm coming home, and yes the knowledge of the cat's history is amazing, certainly the record keeping is much stronger in SA than in Botswana in my experience. I am up to the 3rd and 4th generation of some Leopard families and that is a very special feeling.
The really great thing about wherever you choose is that many of us have similar feelings about many different camps in SA, Bots, Zim and Zam, so you are really are embarking on a special journey.
Nov 7th, 2006, 04:38 AM
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Hi Moira,
I found looking at camp offerings (i.e. dogs, leopards, hiking etc.) at the secondary stage of my planning to be helpful b/c the game and terrain does vary often-times considerably from camp to camp or reserve. You could also study the offerings of each park as well. You will them need to decide if you'd like private reserves or parks. Each of the various areas of each country you've spoke about is too diverse to make blanket statements such as go to Zambia, that's where you'll find the elephants.
You could also think about whether or not you want night drives, small camps,luxury etc.
Also, you may find activities do vary sometimes to the extreme from area to area. I found a few camps in Botswana that did offer hiking and others that would give me a taste of water activities.
You may think about putting a check list of wants together and seeing where you'll find as many of your wants as possible, and go from there.
In the end though as Hari stated, only you can determine what suits you best.
Good luck!
Sherry
I found looking at camp offerings (i.e. dogs, leopards, hiking etc.) at the secondary stage of my planning to be helpful b/c the game and terrain does vary often-times considerably from camp to camp or reserve. You could also study the offerings of each park as well. You will them need to decide if you'd like private reserves or parks. Each of the various areas of each country you've spoke about is too diverse to make blanket statements such as go to Zambia, that's where you'll find the elephants.
You could also think about whether or not you want night drives, small camps,luxury etc.
Also, you may find activities do vary sometimes to the extreme from area to area. I found a few camps in Botswana that did offer hiking and others that would give me a taste of water activities.
You may think about putting a check list of wants together and seeing where you'll find as many of your wants as possible, and go from there.
In the end though as Hari stated, only you can determine what suits you best.
Good luck!
Sherry
Nov 7th, 2006, 06:25 AM
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We went to Africa for 3 weeks in Sept. and started at Victoria Falls. We stayed at the Royal Livingstone but I would recommend Zambezi Sun which is even closer to the falls; just a short walk. Do the microlight! It was amazing. We then went to South Luangwa River Lodge with Rocco's help. It was wonderful! Very relaxed and all that we dreamed Africa would be. We did not see many other vehicles. Our guide, James, was top notch and a great guy. The viewing was excellent. We saw so much including lions mating at night, leopards and even a cheetah. The first night, we saw the elephants crossing the river at sunset! After leaving SLRL, we joined a tour in Tanzania and Kenya which was often as you described with many vehicles crowding the animals. However, it was still very enjoyable but the Zambian leg of our trip will always be the most memorable.
Nov 7th, 2006, 06:37 AM
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Hi Moira - Everyone has given you a lot of great advice and things to think about. I just want to echo what Hari, John and others have said about staying longer in fewer places. I spent nearly three weeks in Africa this year - all of it in Zambia. I went to two parks: Lower Zambezi and South Luangwa. I'd strongly urge you to pick one or two countries. It is just so much more enjoyable, relaxing, and you do increase your chances of seeing something great.
Now, regarding bugs. I traveled at the end of May and into mid June. This is the fall/winter in southern Africa, and while game viewing was not at its peak, the bugs were nearly non-existent. No tse-tse flies and few mozzies. I used very little repellent. The weather at that time is very San Fran-like. Cool at night and in the morning, warm and sunny mid-day. This is just a thought if you want to convince your sister to come. I can't speak about the weather or game viewing in South Africa or Botswana at this time though because I've never been there.
If your sister enjoys wildlife and the outdoors, she will probably not even be thinking about bugs. I hope you can convince her to go; no matter which places you end up choosing, you both will have an outstanding experience! Good luck with the planning!
Sharon
Now, regarding bugs. I traveled at the end of May and into mid June. This is the fall/winter in southern Africa, and while game viewing was not at its peak, the bugs were nearly non-existent. No tse-tse flies and few mozzies. I used very little repellent. The weather at that time is very San Fran-like. Cool at night and in the morning, warm and sunny mid-day. This is just a thought if you want to convince your sister to come. I can't speak about the weather or game viewing in South Africa or Botswana at this time though because I've never been there.
If your sister enjoys wildlife and the outdoors, she will probably not even be thinking about bugs. I hope you can convince her to go; no matter which places you end up choosing, you both will have an outstanding experience! Good luck with the planning!
Sharon
Nov 7th, 2006, 06:50 AM
#34
I haven't been to Zambia - yet. I did go to Botswana for 17 nights in Oct 2005 (photos here http://www.pbase.com/cjw/botswana_africa_2005) and I can't help with camps because mine was mostly mobile camping. I went to MalaMala in July 2004 (6 nights) and June 2005 (5 nights) and it was beyond belief both times. (photos 2006 here http://www.pbase.com/cjw/africa_2006)
Bugs - in Bots, there were no bugs on the mobile camping and only a few mosquitos in the permanent tented camps in the Delta. No bugs at MalaMala either time.
There are a few pics of the Makgadikgadi Pans in the Bots pics. It was dry when we were there and I would love to see it wet. We were fly-camping there and slept on mattresses right on the ground. Awesome experience.
The decision of where to go is yours to make but I would probably go to two countries (at most). A couple that posts at a photography website that I like to went to Sausage Tree Camp in Zam and they stayed there 14 days. They loved that trip and she spoke very highly of Sausage Tree Camp. Their website is here if you would like to see their pictures, trip reports, other info http://www.wildworldphotography.co.uk/ (they do sell their images).
Good luck with your planning!
Cindy
Bugs - in Bots, there were no bugs on the mobile camping and only a few mosquitos in the permanent tented camps in the Delta. No bugs at MalaMala either time.
There are a few pics of the Makgadikgadi Pans in the Bots pics. It was dry when we were there and I would love to see it wet. We were fly-camping there and slept on mattresses right on the ground. Awesome experience.
The decision of where to go is yours to make but I would probably go to two countries (at most). A couple that posts at a photography website that I like to went to Sausage Tree Camp in Zam and they stayed there 14 days. They loved that trip and she spoke very highly of Sausage Tree Camp. Their website is here if you would like to see their pictures, trip reports, other info http://www.wildworldphotography.co.uk/ (they do sell their images).
Good luck with your planning!
Cindy
Nov 7th, 2006, 09:12 AM
#36
Sharon, they had private game drives a lot on that trip and it shows. They went out early and stayed late. They certainly have some wonderful images. I especially love several series of their images - the elephant vs the lion, beginning here http://www.wildworldphotography.co.u...=29&pos=65. That's is just incredible! And the lion and the cub beginning here http://www.wildworldphotography.co.u...29&pos=110. #112 has to be my all time favorite.
I emailed with Carol in early 2004 about where to go. I ended up taking the kids to Italy during spring break and didn't have enough vacation time left to do Africa "right" so that's why I ended up in MM for 6 nights. I still want to go to Sausage Tree!
Cindy
I emailed with Carol in early 2004 about where to go. I ended up taking the kids to Italy during spring break and didn't have enough vacation time left to do Africa "right" so that's why I ended up in MM for 6 nights. I still want to go to Sausage Tree!
Cindy
Nov 7th, 2006, 12:20 PM
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Hi everyone,
Thanks so much for your replies. I think I need to sit down and make the list Cybor mentioned and then see which countries/parks/camps jump out at me.
John/Hari...I think I will be returning to Africa, but I can't do every year so it's a long wait between trips, which is why I'm so tempted to try to do all 3 countries. I just can't imagine waiting four years to see Botswana or Zambia!
Thanks also for the bug comments. I'll pass them on to my sister....she does love animals as long as they only have four legs. Since we would be traveling in the winter, it helps to know that the bugs are not bad then.
Moira
Thanks so much for your replies. I think I need to sit down and make the list Cybor mentioned and then see which countries/parks/camps jump out at me.
John/Hari...I think I will be returning to Africa, but I can't do every year so it's a long wait between trips, which is why I'm so tempted to try to do all 3 countries. I just can't imagine waiting four years to see Botswana or Zambia!
Thanks also for the bug comments. I'll pass them on to my sister....she does love animals as long as they only have four legs. Since we would be traveling in the winter, it helps to know that the bugs are not bad then.
Moira
Nov 8th, 2006, 01:19 PM
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Moira,
Wow, starting in Kenya and then moving down to Southern Africa! You deninitely are in for a treat. I understand your comments on Kenya and the mini vans.
I would highly recommend Botswana for your next trip. I would suggest visiting the Okavango Delta, Linyanti area and Moremi area. These are the best 3 locations. I would not recommend Chobe as it is the only park in Botswana where it feels crowded. The other parks are far less busy. I would recommend Botswana over South Africa. South Africa is great for someone who has a limited time and wants to see everything in a few days. Botswana will provide you with a more wilderness, remote experience. Activities in Botswana will include, walking, boating, game drives, mekoros. Look into doing some of the walking trails, such as the Chitabe Walking trail or the Selinda walking trail. You could easily combine Bots with Victoria falls and enjoy the activities in the falls area such as rafting, microlighting, elephant back safaris, bunjee jumping etc, its endless.
Wow I am excited for your trip. Let us know what you end up with.
Wow, starting in Kenya and then moving down to Southern Africa! You deninitely are in for a treat. I understand your comments on Kenya and the mini vans.
I would highly recommend Botswana for your next trip. I would suggest visiting the Okavango Delta, Linyanti area and Moremi area. These are the best 3 locations. I would not recommend Chobe as it is the only park in Botswana where it feels crowded. The other parks are far less busy. I would recommend Botswana over South Africa. South Africa is great for someone who has a limited time and wants to see everything in a few days. Botswana will provide you with a more wilderness, remote experience. Activities in Botswana will include, walking, boating, game drives, mekoros. Look into doing some of the walking trails, such as the Chitabe Walking trail or the Selinda walking trail. You could easily combine Bots with Victoria falls and enjoy the activities in the falls area such as rafting, microlighting, elephant back safaris, bunjee jumping etc, its endless.
Wow I am excited for your trip. Let us know what you end up with.
Nov 9th, 2006, 05:06 PM
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Hi,
Those photos are incredible!
Sundowner (Cindy) you mention private game drives for photography...do you think this is important? I'd really like to get some great photos this time.
Still in the process of making my list and checking it twice! (Sorry, the flood of early Christmas stuff in the stores is making me a bit crazy).
Moira
Those photos are incredible!
Sundowner (Cindy) you mention private game drives for photography...do you think this is important? I'd really like to get some great photos this time.
Still in the process of making my list and checking it twice! (Sorry, the flood of early Christmas stuff in the stores is making me a bit crazy).
Moira
