Lebala and African Travel Resource
Jun 24th, 2006, 02:19 PM
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Lebala and African Travel Resource
I've just discovered a site that rates the various game lodges in Botswana - is anyone familiar with ATR and its ratings. It describes Lebala as one of its favorites - Here guests can expect to be worked very hard, day and night. "There are no easy drives and no set mealtimes. The result is hardcore game-viewing with a deserved reputation for hippo-hunting lion, wild-dog and leopard. Not for the faint-hearted" - is this accurate. It suits me, but Lebala's own website doesn't give me the sense that this is an accurate description.
Also they said that Selinda is qute worn -a ny thoughts?
Also they said that Selinda is qute worn -a ny thoughts?
Jun 24th, 2006, 02:55 PM
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zephyr2,
All I can say is that the same company rates Olduvai Camp as their favorite in the Serengeti!
http://www.africatravelresource.com/...TOLD/TOLDa.htm
My final trip as a regular safarigoer before starting my own operation, was booked through ATR and it was with the above advice (strengthened through conversations with the agent) that I followed up my 2 nights at Tarangire Treetops, 2 nights at Lake Manyara Tree Lodge and 2 nights at Ngorongoro Crater Lodge with, fortunately, only a single night at Olduvai Camp. I thought it was awful and my wife agreed. So, although you are asking about Botswana, I am just commenting on the ratings of that particular agent...they are meaningless. They are far from impartial and favor all the camps that their ground handlers own.
Given the availability remaining in Botswana this year, especially in the Linyanti area, I would advise you to grab whatever there is left. While there are nicer camps than Selinda appears to be, they come at a price. Selinda is priced about the same as Lebala and Lagoon while the Wilderness camps will be higher, topping out with Kings Pool as the highest.
All I can say is that the same company rates Olduvai Camp as their favorite in the Serengeti!
http://www.africatravelresource.com/...TOLD/TOLDa.htm
My final trip as a regular safarigoer before starting my own operation, was booked through ATR and it was with the above advice (strengthened through conversations with the agent) that I followed up my 2 nights at Tarangire Treetops, 2 nights at Lake Manyara Tree Lodge and 2 nights at Ngorongoro Crater Lodge with, fortunately, only a single night at Olduvai Camp. I thought it was awful and my wife agreed. So, although you are asking about Botswana, I am just commenting on the ratings of that particular agent...they are meaningless. They are far from impartial and favor all the camps that their ground handlers own.
Given the availability remaining in Botswana this year, especially in the Linyanti area, I would advise you to grab whatever there is left. While there are nicer camps than Selinda appears to be, they come at a price. Selinda is priced about the same as Lebala and Lagoon while the Wilderness camps will be higher, topping out with Kings Pool as the highest.
Jun 24th, 2006, 03:46 PM
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My experience with ATR was different zephyr. When I contacted and worked with the agent he gave me advice based on the locations and within parameters that I gave. Not once did they push their own camps - not once.
They do have good information on the ATR web site - but keep looking at others and do a search on Lebala to see if any trip reports include a stay there.
Rocco - why don't you give Zephyr information that compares Lebala and Selinda from your experience or knowledge.
Keep an open mind Zephyr - Rocco is also a travel agent himself. There are several on the board. Do your research and look for others that have stayed at the camps.
They do have good information on the ATR web site - but keep looking at others and do a search on Lebala to see if any trip reports include a stay there.
Rocco - why don't you give Zephyr information that compares Lebala and Selinda from your experience or knowledge.
Keep an open mind Zephyr - Rocco is also a travel agent himself. There are several on the board. Do your research and look for others that have stayed at the camps.
Jun 24th, 2006, 04:37 PM
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lovetodiscover,
I am far from the only person on this board who has had Mt. Kiliminjaro Safari Club's camps pushed hard on them by ATR. MKSC is the ground operator of ATR and I would not be surprised if ATR did not own or partially own MKSC.
Good luck doing a safari with ATR and not having Olduvai, Mawe Ninga in Tarangire or Ronjo Flycamp (for budget safaris) crammed down your throat. Fortunately, I insisted (after Mawe Ninga was continually proposed by ATR) on staying at Tarangire Treetops.
As far as Botswana knowledge goes, I will put the knowledge of Botswana Julian Asher's (Jasher on this forum and my business partner) up against anyone else that is likely to be selling safaris.
Agent or not, I remain one of the biggest consumer advocates on this board.
I am far from the only person on this board who has had Mt. Kiliminjaro Safari Club's camps pushed hard on them by ATR. MKSC is the ground operator of ATR and I would not be surprised if ATR did not own or partially own MKSC.
Good luck doing a safari with ATR and not having Olduvai, Mawe Ninga in Tarangire or Ronjo Flycamp (for budget safaris) crammed down your throat. Fortunately, I insisted (after Mawe Ninga was continually proposed by ATR) on staying at Tarangire Treetops.
As far as Botswana knowledge goes, I will put the knowledge of Botswana Julian Asher's (Jasher on this forum and my business partner) up against anyone else that is likely to be selling safaris.
Agent or not, I remain one of the biggest consumer advocates on this board.
Jun 24th, 2006, 04:46 PM
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(Looking back, I was quite pleased with ATR prior to my own safari, as well. I did not even mind paying full rack prices...I think their London office is great but the product you get on the ground in Tanzania may be quite less impressive).
Jun 24th, 2006, 04:48 PM
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Not to be misunderstood - I was encouraging your description of the camps mentioned by Zephyr because of your companies focus/expertise in Botswana.
Repeating my comment on ATR - I have booked and planned a trip with them already - and again NOT ONCE did I have a camp pushed on me. Also, not staying at any of the camps you noted.
It is fair for the people who come to the board to hear more than one perspective.
Repeating my comment on ATR - I have booked and planned a trip with them already - and again NOT ONCE did I have a camp pushed on me. Also, not staying at any of the camps you noted.
It is fair for the people who come to the board to hear more than one perspective.
Jun 24th, 2006, 05:36 PM
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Sorry Zephyr - don't think your question on the camp description got answered yet.
Here's a link to Botswana camp discussion and some positive mention of Lebala.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34824321
Here's a link to Botswana camp discussion and some positive mention of Lebala.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34824321
Jun 24th, 2006, 06:52 PM
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Zephyr2,
If there was one camp in Africa i was to choose......it would be Lebala without a doubt. My fav!!! (Also bear in mind, i have been to Mombo also)
Just do a search on these boards for Lebala.....lots of info....BTW, i have a return trip planned for August 2006
Selinda is meant to be very good also, but, i don't visit until June 2007 at the earliest.
Hari
If there was one camp in Africa i was to choose......it would be Lebala without a doubt. My fav!!! (Also bear in mind, i have been to Mombo also)
Just do a search on these boards for Lebala.....lots of info....BTW, i have a return trip planned for August 2006
Selinda is meant to be very good also, but, i don't visit until June 2007 at the earliest.
Hari
Jun 24th, 2006, 07:34 PM
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Jun 24th, 2006, 08:32 PM
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The above is a link to some of my pictures......both from Wilderness and Kwando camps. IMO, zephyr2, pl state what are your primary objectives for your botswana safari??? i.e., what are you looking for.....
I have no knowledge or info about ATR, so i wont comment........
Hari
I have no knowledge or info about ATR, so i wont comment........
Hari
Jun 24th, 2006, 09:34 PM
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I think the camp reviews for Botswana aren't updated for a long time.
Last year, Selinda was bought by Derek and Beverly Joubert and is now under the wings of Wilderness Safaris. And the camp was recently rebuild.
I am going to Selinda in June 2007 for a week. In the last decade, dogs are usually denning at Selinda and it's one of the best places to see them although it's never guaranteed (especially if you don't go in the denning season or if they denned somewhere else). Because of it's open space it's an excellent place to see cheetah. It was at Selinda that a pride of lions learned to take hippos down but also you have to be extremely lucky to see that happen.
I have been several times at Lebala and I am going there for 10 nights in September/October because it's also a very productive area. It used to be infested with lions in the past but not today. Of course you can still see them and I did everyday when I was there last month (8 nights). You have a chance of seeing wild dogs but again you have to be lucky. The pack that usually dens at Selinda covers a huge area like all wild dogs do and can be seen as far as Duma Tau and Lebala.
In the 8 nights I was there I saw them on 3 occasions. Because Lebala is in the same concession as Lagoon and they have a small pack (6 or 7 dogs) that frequent the area quite often. You can always have a look there.
Lebala isn't particularly good for leopards like mentioned at the ATR website. Most of them are quite skittish but I was lucky to see a relaxed male.
Normally Lebala is like Selinda quite good to see cheetahs. This time I had only one sighting but it was top quality. I stayed with them for more than six hours and saw them killing a warthog. If I wanted to I could have at a look at cheetahs that were seen in Lagoon but I decided to stay at the lion sighting in Lebala because of the light conditions.
I don't know who is guiding at the moment in Selinda but at Lebala they have two resident guides who are excellent: Spencer (mentioned in Botswana insider's guide) and Charles (mentioned in African Geographic in the March 2006 issue - he was driving Christophe Courteau while he was taking pictures from a clash between hyenas and wild dogs).
You can't go wrong with both camps I think. I have to admit that I have a special relationship with Lebala because of the management and guides I've been working with there.
Best regards,
Johan
Last year, Selinda was bought by Derek and Beverly Joubert and is now under the wings of Wilderness Safaris. And the camp was recently rebuild.
I am going to Selinda in June 2007 for a week. In the last decade, dogs are usually denning at Selinda and it's one of the best places to see them although it's never guaranteed (especially if you don't go in the denning season or if they denned somewhere else). Because of it's open space it's an excellent place to see cheetah. It was at Selinda that a pride of lions learned to take hippos down but also you have to be extremely lucky to see that happen.
I have been several times at Lebala and I am going there for 10 nights in September/October because it's also a very productive area. It used to be infested with lions in the past but not today. Of course you can still see them and I did everyday when I was there last month (8 nights). You have a chance of seeing wild dogs but again you have to be lucky. The pack that usually dens at Selinda covers a huge area like all wild dogs do and can be seen as far as Duma Tau and Lebala.
In the 8 nights I was there I saw them on 3 occasions. Because Lebala is in the same concession as Lagoon and they have a small pack (6 or 7 dogs) that frequent the area quite often. You can always have a look there.
Lebala isn't particularly good for leopards like mentioned at the ATR website. Most of them are quite skittish but I was lucky to see a relaxed male.
Normally Lebala is like Selinda quite good to see cheetahs. This time I had only one sighting but it was top quality. I stayed with them for more than six hours and saw them killing a warthog. If I wanted to I could have at a look at cheetahs that were seen in Lagoon but I decided to stay at the lion sighting in Lebala because of the light conditions.
I don't know who is guiding at the moment in Selinda but at Lebala they have two resident guides who are excellent: Spencer (mentioned in Botswana insider's guide) and Charles (mentioned in African Geographic in the March 2006 issue - he was driving Christophe Courteau while he was taking pictures from a clash between hyenas and wild dogs).
You can't go wrong with both camps I think. I have to admit that I have a special relationship with Lebala because of the management and guides I've been working with there.
Best regards,
Johan
