from rwanda-about fencing off the park.
May 20th, 2006, 09:01 AM
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from rwanda-about fencing off the park.
May 20th, 2006, 09:12 PM
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Dave-
I asked one of the Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund scientists working in Ruhengeri about the article and they said they haven't heard anything about fencing off the park other than the brick wall which already surrounds the volcanos.
I will keep you updated if or when I hear anything more about it.
I asked one of the Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund scientists working in Ruhengeri about the article and they said they haven't heard anything about fencing off the park other than the brick wall which already surrounds the volcanos.
I will keep you updated if or when I hear anything more about it.
May 21st, 2006, 12:29 AM
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Fencing always seems sad.
But if it will stop poaching perhaps it's a good thing.
There's always a moral dilemma about areas where humans and animals come into conflict... just look at recent hapenings around Nairobi National Park.
I don't know what to think!
But if it will stop poaching perhaps it's a good thing.
There's always a moral dilemma about areas where humans and animals come into conflict... just look at recent hapenings around Nairobi National Park.
I don't know what to think!
May 21st, 2006, 02:28 AM
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hi, i also am disturbed by fences. really would rather have more patrols out in the area.doesnt seem fair to keep mother nature locked in-when really it is people causing the problem.
d
d
May 21st, 2006, 03:32 AM
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Hi Dave,
This is a difficult question! I know very little about gorillas and their problems other than for the gorillas it is a life or death struggle for their survival. For the local people, I often feel that for them also, it is a fight for life or death. What do poachers do with gorillas - is it pet trade or for bushmeat? God knows the poor gorilla would not be in the position they are without our putting them there - diseases, small areas of habitat, senseless killing and I am sure the list goes on.
I also do not like the fences, although in many places they seem used for different reasons, so if it helps the gorillas, who am I to say I do not like the look of it! I also think we can say to have more patrols, but again, I feel a fairly easy response for me to say! Money must be a huge factor and if they do not have the money to feed the people, money to pay patrols for looking after the animals is going to be difficult to come by.
Many animals suffer because of people, both wild and domestic. While I would love it if African countries could keep huge of tracts of unfenced land to keep all those unique African animals for my nieces and nephew and their kids to see in years to come, their numbers are dwindling decade by decade because of the huge population that all of those African countries have - they need land for survival just like the animals. Having seen a lioness suffer for a period of time after being caught in a snare, I was really angry with those that did it, as they were probably after antelope for food and the lioness paid dearly for that mistake as did her cub. But those people need food to eat and it is too easy for me, who does not have any relatives starving to death, to want to punish those that are only trying to survive.
I have no idea what the solution is, I hate knowing that animals are at such a huge risk for being a food source and I do feel bad passing judgement on local people who do need to eat and probably do not think long term when they need to eat this week!
I will not go on as I think I am now rambling, but I hope you get my drift! I really can see both sides, though I certainly do not condone poaching of any description for profit, when it is done to eat, and once again I state that I loathe how they do it, as the animals suffer beyond belief, I can understand why they do it!
Kind regards,
Kaye
This is a difficult question! I know very little about gorillas and their problems other than for the gorillas it is a life or death struggle for their survival. For the local people, I often feel that for them also, it is a fight for life or death. What do poachers do with gorillas - is it pet trade or for bushmeat? God knows the poor gorilla would not be in the position they are without our putting them there - diseases, small areas of habitat, senseless killing and I am sure the list goes on.
I also do not like the fences, although in many places they seem used for different reasons, so if it helps the gorillas, who am I to say I do not like the look of it! I also think we can say to have more patrols, but again, I feel a fairly easy response for me to say! Money must be a huge factor and if they do not have the money to feed the people, money to pay patrols for looking after the animals is going to be difficult to come by.
Many animals suffer because of people, both wild and domestic. While I would love it if African countries could keep huge of tracts of unfenced land to keep all those unique African animals for my nieces and nephew and their kids to see in years to come, their numbers are dwindling decade by decade because of the huge population that all of those African countries have - they need land for survival just like the animals. Having seen a lioness suffer for a period of time after being caught in a snare, I was really angry with those that did it, as they were probably after antelope for food and the lioness paid dearly for that mistake as did her cub. But those people need food to eat and it is too easy for me, who does not have any relatives starving to death, to want to punish those that are only trying to survive.
I have no idea what the solution is, I hate knowing that animals are at such a huge risk for being a food source and I do feel bad passing judgement on local people who do need to eat and probably do not think long term when they need to eat this week!
I will not go on as I think I am now rambling, but I hope you get my drift! I really can see both sides, though I certainly do not condone poaching of any description for profit, when it is done to eat, and once again I state that I loathe how they do it, as the animals suffer beyond belief, I can understand why they do it!
Kind regards,
Kaye
May 21st, 2006, 03:58 AM
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hi,yes this whole thing really bites.
not all that possible(more patrols) for money reasons-i get that-i kinda knew that.but ya know-people should really look at least try to look ahead. you have more -you need more.the population keeps going and going.with no thought of their own hardships,ability to care for ect.they seem to put themselves in that position. they are just going at will.
not caring for anything after that.
my lady friend in the kenya wildlife service-shes 28/29. not married no kids.she realizes the hardships.she does not want kids for these reasons.she sees ahead of it all.when she goes back to her village she gets harrassed all the time from family and friends about her and no family.they dont understand her reasoning. they dont want to.it seems it's a lost cause.whether it is the culture or even the church telling them to keep going and going.
i wish peoples would just step back.think about what they have,dont have before they keep adding to the problem.
i guess i am rambling also.
too bad-i honestly dont see it getting any better.i just hope i am not alive to see it.
d
not all that possible(more patrols) for money reasons-i get that-i kinda knew that.but ya know-people should really look at least try to look ahead. you have more -you need more.the population keeps going and going.with no thought of their own hardships,ability to care for ect.they seem to put themselves in that position. they are just going at will.
not caring for anything after that.
my lady friend in the kenya wildlife service-shes 28/29. not married no kids.she realizes the hardships.she does not want kids for these reasons.she sees ahead of it all.when she goes back to her village she gets harrassed all the time from family and friends about her and no family.they dont understand her reasoning. they dont want to.it seems it's a lost cause.whether it is the culture or even the church telling them to keep going and going.
i wish peoples would just step back.think about what they have,dont have before they keep adding to the problem.
i guess i am rambling also.
too bad-i honestly dont see it getting any better.i just hope i am not alive to see it.
d
May 21st, 2006, 07:13 AM
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KayeN and Dave-
Most of the infant gorillas are captured for illegal pet trade. Selling the infants are the typical thing poachers do. Poachers most often have to kill the entire family to get the infants. When they do, the infants are put into sacks where they are kept until sold. The infants who have been confiscated from the poachers are usually very psychologically traumatized.
DFGFI and its conservation partners in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Rwanda have made tremendous success in improving gorilla conservation, through protecting endangered gorillas, and helping to preserve habitat. However, the illegal trade of endangered species is a pressing issue, particularly in the DRC. All wild animals are negatively affected by illegal trade, but for the trade in infant gorillas the problem is especially acute due to their family social structure. Such infants can not survive alone and will often die quickly in captivity once separated from their family members.
Maisha, a young Grauer gorilla confiscated from poachers, is being cared for in Rwanda.
Right now, DFGFI along with the ICCN (the government agency responsible for conservation in DRC), ORTPN (the government agency responsible for conservation in Rwanda) and the Mountain Gorilla Veterinary Project (MGVP), are caring for five young Grauer's gorillas (eastern lowland) and one mountain gorilla that have been confiscated from poachers and traders. The most recent gorilla was confiscated in March. DFGFI staff assist in care giving, providing food from the forest, and behavioral assessments, while plans continue to be explored for their future. However, while DFGFI, MGVP and government agencies are leading efforts to combat the illegal trade in gorillas, the lack of sanctuaries for these confiscated individuals presents an ongoing problem for their long term future.
On the Park's protection:
DFGFI conducts training programs and workshops for Rwanda's Office of Tourism and National Parks staff to enhance their skills to protect Rwanda's threatened and endangered species and their ecosystems. The training covers all aspects of Volcanoes National Park and its conservation, including general conservation issues, history of the park, primate ecology, gorilla and golden monkey behavior and the botany of the ecosystem. Training manuals for tourist guides and trackers ensure these conservationists are equipped with the latest research to further improve their knowledge and the quality of the tourist experiences they provide.
The gorillas are monitored from dawn to dusk and the outskirts of the park are patroled 24 hours a day.
Quite often there are mobile camps set up within the park by rangers to monitor the groups of gorillas. And if and when there is word of a gorilla being captured, whether lowland or mountain, a sting operation is set up to confiscate that particular gorilla.
As you can see there are many collaborative ongoing efforts to curtail the poaching. If and when you get the chance to do the trekking, by hiring a porter for a mere $5 to carry your backpack, camera gear, etc., you are helping provide income and work to the locals which in turn, helps cut down on the locals' needs to find otherwise illegal means to an end.
Hope this gives you a better idea of what is going on behind the scenes to protect these wonderful animals.
Sandy
Most of the infant gorillas are captured for illegal pet trade. Selling the infants are the typical thing poachers do. Poachers most often have to kill the entire family to get the infants. When they do, the infants are put into sacks where they are kept until sold. The infants who have been confiscated from the poachers are usually very psychologically traumatized.
DFGFI and its conservation partners in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Rwanda have made tremendous success in improving gorilla conservation, through protecting endangered gorillas, and helping to preserve habitat. However, the illegal trade of endangered species is a pressing issue, particularly in the DRC. All wild animals are negatively affected by illegal trade, but for the trade in infant gorillas the problem is especially acute due to their family social structure. Such infants can not survive alone and will often die quickly in captivity once separated from their family members.
Maisha, a young Grauer gorilla confiscated from poachers, is being cared for in Rwanda.
Right now, DFGFI along with the ICCN (the government agency responsible for conservation in DRC), ORTPN (the government agency responsible for conservation in Rwanda) and the Mountain Gorilla Veterinary Project (MGVP), are caring for five young Grauer's gorillas (eastern lowland) and one mountain gorilla that have been confiscated from poachers and traders. The most recent gorilla was confiscated in March. DFGFI staff assist in care giving, providing food from the forest, and behavioral assessments, while plans continue to be explored for their future. However, while DFGFI, MGVP and government agencies are leading efforts to combat the illegal trade in gorillas, the lack of sanctuaries for these confiscated individuals presents an ongoing problem for their long term future.
On the Park's protection:
DFGFI conducts training programs and workshops for Rwanda's Office of Tourism and National Parks staff to enhance their skills to protect Rwanda's threatened and endangered species and their ecosystems. The training covers all aspects of Volcanoes National Park and its conservation, including general conservation issues, history of the park, primate ecology, gorilla and golden monkey behavior and the botany of the ecosystem. Training manuals for tourist guides and trackers ensure these conservationists are equipped with the latest research to further improve their knowledge and the quality of the tourist experiences they provide.
The gorillas are monitored from dawn to dusk and the outskirts of the park are patroled 24 hours a day.
Quite often there are mobile camps set up within the park by rangers to monitor the groups of gorillas. And if and when there is word of a gorilla being captured, whether lowland or mountain, a sting operation is set up to confiscate that particular gorilla.
As you can see there are many collaborative ongoing efforts to curtail the poaching. If and when you get the chance to do the trekking, by hiring a porter for a mere $5 to carry your backpack, camera gear, etc., you are helping provide income and work to the locals which in turn, helps cut down on the locals' needs to find otherwise illegal means to an end.
Hope this gives you a better idea of what is going on behind the scenes to protect these wonderful animals.
Sandy
May 21st, 2006, 08:40 AM
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Sandy,
I am very interested in your reply and excellent summary of the situation in Rwanda. We are going to be there in just a few weeks, and I've just read "In the Kingdom of Gorillas" by Weeber & Veeder, which I thought was an excellent book, btw. I'm wondering if there is something more recent to read which has info about the situation since the genocide? I had not planned to hire a porter for the trekking, but you've changed my mind on that issue.
I am very interested in your reply and excellent summary of the situation in Rwanda. We are going to be there in just a few weeks, and I've just read "In the Kingdom of Gorillas" by Weeber & Veeder, which I thought was an excellent book, btw. I'm wondering if there is something more recent to read which has info about the situation since the genocide? I had not planned to hire a porter for the trekking, but you've changed my mind on that issue.
May 21st, 2006, 08:50 AM
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hi sandy and all-when i did the bwindi thing last june-yes-i went ahead and gave like 20bucks to each the guide and my porter.i already had it in my mind to be doing that-for the reasons you mention.
then i also thought-what is another 40 or 50bucks extra for a couple days when we're spending WAY more than that just to visit.
in my mind-5bucks is not cutting it.these people work so damn hard and are so grateful.
thx, d
then i also thought-what is another 40 or 50bucks extra for a couple days when we're spending WAY more than that just to visit.
in my mind-5bucks is not cutting it.these people work so damn hard and are so grateful.
thx, d
May 21st, 2006, 01:50 PM
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Marty-
Are you interested in learning about the status of the gorillas since the genocide or about Rwanda in general?
I just posted under a new thread, news of a soon-to-be-released special of Sigourney Weaver doing a follow-up to 'Gorillas in the Mist' twenty years later.
Are you interested in learning about the status of the gorillas since the genocide or about Rwanda in general?
I just posted under a new thread, news of a soon-to-be-released special of Sigourney Weaver doing a follow-up to 'Gorillas in the Mist' twenty years later.
May 21st, 2006, 06:36 PM
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Sandy,
I've read a bit about the current politcal situation in Rwanda, but what I was really wondering about is has the gorilla population gone up? Has poaching been better controlled? Of course, I'm also interested in people and wonder about whether there has been genuine reconciliation, etc.
I've read a bit about the current politcal situation in Rwanda, but what I was really wondering about is has the gorilla population gone up? Has poaching been better controlled? Of course, I'm also interested in people and wonder about whether there has been genuine reconciliation, etc.
May 21st, 2006, 08:10 PM
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Hi Sandy,
Who is it that is buying these baby gorillas? The illegal wildlife trade happens worldwide, and having seen TV shows on this subject I know how few make it to their destination alive, let alone survive anytime after that. We have huge problems here in Australia, and we have a reasonably diligent group of customs whose job it is to prevent any reptiles or birdlife from leaving our shores illegally. To see how they sent is unbelievable - hard to see how any animal survives.
Yes, Dave, without a doubt education is part of the solution, but that also comes at a huge expense. Good to hear that the young woman in wildlife services is making a stand for something she believes in and is strong enough to withstand family pressure. Let us hope she stands as a shining example for young kids in her community!
Kind regards,
Kaye
Who is it that is buying these baby gorillas? The illegal wildlife trade happens worldwide, and having seen TV shows on this subject I know how few make it to their destination alive, let alone survive anytime after that. We have huge problems here in Australia, and we have a reasonably diligent group of customs whose job it is to prevent any reptiles or birdlife from leaving our shores illegally. To see how they sent is unbelievable - hard to see how any animal survives.
Yes, Dave, without a doubt education is part of the solution, but that also comes at a huge expense. Good to hear that the young woman in wildlife services is making a stand for something she believes in and is strong enough to withstand family pressure. Let us hope she stands as a shining example for young kids in her community!
Kind regards,
Kaye
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