canned hunting...your opinion pls
Apr 30th, 2008, 07:45 AM
#1
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canned hunting...your opinion pls
i got the following message today. would highly appreciate your thoughts on that...
Captive Lions Hunts Are OK Through 2008
(posted March 19, 2008)
[] If you have a hunt booked in South Africa for a captive lion this season and you have been wondering if it will be legal when your hunt date comes around, relax. The Hunting Report has just learned that captive lion hunts already booked for 2008 will be honored irrespective of the outcome of the ongoing law suit over these hunts.
We have that news from Peter Butland, President of PHASA (Professional Hunters Association of South Africa), who called us this afternoon from Cape Town. Butland had just met with officials of DEAT (Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism), the governmental body that has the authority to make a statement like the one above. "Your subscribers can rest easy with booked hunts for captive lion this season," Butland said.
Longer term, it is not clear how captive lion hunts will be handled. It appears almost certain that they will continue; the ambiguity centers on the length of time that a captive lion must be released before it is hunted. The government has called for a two-year release period, while the South African Predators Breeders Association (SAPBA) wants a six-month period. This disagreement over release periods is the central issue in the lawsuit SAPBA has filed against the government. SAPBA says nothing less than the future of the industry is at stake, as a captive lion hunting industry requiring a two-year release period would not be economically feasible.
Butland said it was impossible to predict when the lawsuit would be over or how it would be decided. For the moment, though, the issue is moot. Subscribers who have called us about 2008 captive lion hunts can rest easy. - Don Causey.
Captive Lions Hunts Are OK Through 2008
(posted March 19, 2008)
[] If you have a hunt booked in South Africa for a captive lion this season and you have been wondering if it will be legal when your hunt date comes around, relax. The Hunting Report has just learned that captive lion hunts already booked for 2008 will be honored irrespective of the outcome of the ongoing law suit over these hunts.
We have that news from Peter Butland, President of PHASA (Professional Hunters Association of South Africa), who called us this afternoon from Cape Town. Butland had just met with officials of DEAT (Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism), the governmental body that has the authority to make a statement like the one above. "Your subscribers can rest easy with booked hunts for captive lion this season," Butland said.
Longer term, it is not clear how captive lion hunts will be handled. It appears almost certain that they will continue; the ambiguity centers on the length of time that a captive lion must be released before it is hunted. The government has called for a two-year release period, while the South African Predators Breeders Association (SAPBA) wants a six-month period. This disagreement over release periods is the central issue in the lawsuit SAPBA has filed against the government. SAPBA says nothing less than the future of the industry is at stake, as a captive lion hunting industry requiring a two-year release period would not be economically feasible.
Butland said it was impossible to predict when the lawsuit would be over or how it would be decided. For the moment, though, the issue is moot. Subscribers who have called us about 2008 captive lion hunts can rest easy. - Don Causey.
Apr 30th, 2008, 08:33 AM
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Pippa,
Personally, I find this disgusting.
I'm not a hunter myself but every single friend of mine who is a hunter would find this disgusting as well. They would SHOUT that this is the kind of thing that gives hunting a bad name.
I live in Montana in the US where hunting is very common and popular for a variety of very good reasons and poaching is strictly enforced.
There are private businesses in the US that have large acreage that is fenced enclosing "game" animals for people to pay to come and shoot. It's the same thing as the article that you've posted. It's legal but not sporting. And if people can pay all that money that is charged to come "hunt" on fenced land then they certainly aren't hunting out of the necessity to put food on their table or to keep the levels of free range game in balance.
-doo
Personally, I find this disgusting.
I'm not a hunter myself but every single friend of mine who is a hunter would find this disgusting as well. They would SHOUT that this is the kind of thing that gives hunting a bad name.
I live in Montana in the US where hunting is very common and popular for a variety of very good reasons and poaching is strictly enforced.
There are private businesses in the US that have large acreage that is fenced enclosing "game" animals for people to pay to come and shoot. It's the same thing as the article that you've posted. It's legal but not sporting. And if people can pay all that money that is charged to come "hunt" on fenced land then they certainly aren't hunting out of the necessity to put food on their table or to keep the levels of free range game in balance.
-doo
Apr 30th, 2008, 10:43 AM
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A dead canned lion has no impact on the environment.
Whereas a dead wild lion leaves a gap in the pecking order, which will result in the death of cubs and the emergence of a weaker genetic strain.
If they are going to shoot an animal, let it be one that is raised for that purpose, it will at least allow the environment to succeed.
Sorry for the lard laced bellies who need to hang a trophy from their wall....
What great men... and women...
Whereas a dead wild lion leaves a gap in the pecking order, which will result in the death of cubs and the emergence of a weaker genetic strain.
If they are going to shoot an animal, let it be one that is raised for that purpose, it will at least allow the environment to succeed.
Sorry for the lard laced bellies who need to hang a trophy from their wall....
What great men... and women...
Apr 30th, 2008, 11:47 AM
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I agree with Mkhonzo on this one. While I have great respect for the work hunters do in the US for wildlife habitat preservation, and the ethical way most conduct their pasttime (its not a sport)I have nothing but contempt for the people who feel the need to collect another species to add to their list of trophies, particularly when those species are in alarming decline.
Apr 30th, 2008, 11:58 AM
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Sorry to be a little dense on this (I really didn't know it existed until I became a regular on this board), but what do the 'sport' hunters do with the lions once shot on a canned hunt? Do they flay and mount the skin on their walls and leave the rest to nature? Give away the rest for meat to .... ????
(PS, I am seriously asking this question, I really don't know)
(PS, I am seriously asking this question, I really don't know)
Apr 30th, 2008, 12:43 PM
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It may have no impact on the environment, but it still says a lot that there are people in the world who want this product. It is therefore hardly surprising that it is provided, a bit like all of the porn stes also from the same place as the canned hunters.
The use of the word "sport" is based on how hunting is described in UK.
The use of the word "sport" is based on how hunting is described in UK.
Apr 30th, 2008, 01:22 PM
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Having recently returned from South Africa where I spent time with 2 people who are involved / have been involved in rescuing lions from the Canned hunting industry, (Paul Hart and Louise Joubert), there are currently 5000 +/- lions in the canned hunt industry. None serve any conservation value and the only options will be to euthanize them: there are not the facilities such as SanWild or Drakenstein to rehome such a huge amount.
One can read interviews on Safaritalk with Paul Hart (Drakenstein Lion Park):
http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=406
Louise Joubert (SanWild)
http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=124
and Chris Mercer (Campaign Against Canned Hunting):
http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=429
Matt
One can read interviews on Safaritalk with Paul Hart (Drakenstein Lion Park):
http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=406
Louise Joubert (SanWild)
http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=124
and Chris Mercer (Campaign Against Canned Hunting):
http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=429
Matt
Apr 30th, 2008, 01:43 PM
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And in a perfect world, maybe if humans stopped breeding like rabbits and taking over wildlife habitats, there would be room for lions and other wildlife thus breeding lions for this disgusting so-called "sport" would be completely put to an end.
But unfortunately there will always be sick individuals who get their "rocks" off from activities such as canned hunting.
But unfortunately there will always be sick individuals who get their "rocks" off from activities such as canned hunting.
Apr 30th, 2008, 01:44 PM
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@ matt
thx for uploading paul's and chris' links!
both are doing a great job and bev(erly) deserves to be mentioned as well!
mr. schalkwyk promised a legislation to be introduced by last sep., postponed to feb this year - but there are so many loopholes that in the end canned hunting won't be abolished at all!
mr. schalkwyk by the way himself a hunter serves nothing but the hunting industry!
especially south africa had all chances to become a modern democracy. but it has wasted so many chances.
and paul simply cannot take care of many more lions after he has got a further 3 from a romanian circus lately.
it's a double edged knife. if they abolish once and forever they have to put down thousands of lions which is heart breaking. but then it's done and no more suffering.
i think it's a shame that a country allows such cruelty. but obviously as long as there are people who consider money their only goddess it never ends!
i won't argue with any hunter. but i would one day like to understand what kind of feeling it is to pull the trigger in order to enhance the selfesteem/ego....
thx for uploading paul's and chris' links!
both are doing a great job and bev(erly) deserves to be mentioned as well!
mr. schalkwyk promised a legislation to be introduced by last sep., postponed to feb this year - but there are so many loopholes that in the end canned hunting won't be abolished at all!
mr. schalkwyk by the way himself a hunter serves nothing but the hunting industry!
especially south africa had all chances to become a modern democracy. but it has wasted so many chances.
and paul simply cannot take care of many more lions after he has got a further 3 from a romanian circus lately.
it's a double edged knife. if they abolish once and forever they have to put down thousands of lions which is heart breaking. but then it's done and no more suffering.
i think it's a shame that a country allows such cruelty. but obviously as long as there are people who consider money their only goddess it never ends!
i won't argue with any hunter. but i would one day like to understand what kind of feeling it is to pull the trigger in order to enhance the selfesteem/ego....
Apr 30th, 2008, 01:51 PM
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I am not a fan of canned hunts for any purpose. I grew up with hunters in the US (I don't hunt) and they felt the same way. They viewed hunting (in the US) as a sort of game management. They always ate what they hunted.
I really don't see the need to hunt "big game" or "predators". I don't mean to insult anyone but that always seemed too much like trying to prove something - I think you all know where I'm going there without getting graphic...
I always feel why would I want a dead head on the wall or skin on the floor when I can enjoy a great picture I took and know that I was so close to such a magnificent animal that is still out there in the wild where it belongs. If that makes me weird then I'm weird, happy and proud of it!
Bob
I really don't see the need to hunt "big game" or "predators". I don't mean to insult anyone but that always seemed too much like trying to prove something - I think you all know where I'm going there without getting graphic...
I always feel why would I want a dead head on the wall or skin on the floor when I can enjoy a great picture I took and know that I was so close to such a magnificent animal that is still out there in the wild where it belongs. If that makes me weird then I'm weird, happy and proud of it!
Bob
Apr 30th, 2008, 01:56 PM
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Here's a short pictorial report on my visit to Paul at Drakenstein, showing the three lion cubs, Goliath Simba and Ringo who arrived in February.
http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=2408
Unfortunately I didn't have time to meet with Chris and Beverly though we spoke beforehand.
The point made earlier by mkhonzo was one I heard more than once in South Africa, but on the other hand there exists the argument of trophy hunting as a conservation tool...
http://safaritalk.net/index.php?showtopic=2408
Unfortunately I didn't have time to meet with Chris and Beverly though we spoke beforehand.
The point made earlier by mkhonzo was one I heard more than once in South Africa, but on the other hand there exists the argument of trophy hunting as a conservation tool...
Apr 30th, 2008, 02:16 PM
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hi matt,
very glad that you met paul! extremly dedicated to his cause and extremly knowledgeable! admire him for what he does!
support him in every aspect incl. promotion.
spoke to chris on the phone last june when i was in joburg and he was coming over but missed him because our schedules simply weren't matching - both omn business.
support also chris and bev and do their "promotion" in europe.
regarding trophy hunting as a conservation tool: of course hunters argue it is conservation, supporting communities etc etc etc. know all of their arguments. don't argue.
since i watcheed "cindy" on you tube shooting lions and the video which shows male and female hunters shooting a male lion (the lion regrettably missed the hunter
) i don't consider it a necessity to evacuate "women (and children) first"
very glad that you met paul! extremly dedicated to his cause and extremly knowledgeable! admire him for what he does!
support him in every aspect incl. promotion.
spoke to chris on the phone last june when i was in joburg and he was coming over but missed him because our schedules simply weren't matching - both omn business.
support also chris and bev and do their "promotion" in europe.
regarding trophy hunting as a conservation tool: of course hunters argue it is conservation, supporting communities etc etc etc. know all of their arguments. don't argue.
since i watcheed "cindy" on you tube shooting lions and the video which shows male and female hunters shooting a male lion (the lion regrettably missed the hunter
) i don't consider it a necessity to evacuate "women (and children) first"
Mar 26th, 2009, 08:04 PM
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As a REAL hunter I find this both disgusting and agonizingly inevitable.
As long as people who have lots of money feel the need to dominate those weaker then themselves (Egomaniacs like a number of U.S big shots that have been'related' to Canned Hunting) then Canned hunting will be around.
I also volonteer with my local Fish and Game division as a tracker and occasional "retreiver" (going to people who have 'adopted' baby wildlife and are now haveing trouble with them). I have been to Canned hunting Raids and have seent he vile nasty....I do not know of a word in ay language that can describe these conditions. Moose TIED to a tree with chains and strong cables so that all they can do is stand there looking at you. Deer packed ten to a dog-kennel barely big enough for five St. Bernards to stand in and still be able to breath. these canned hunts are dispicable. but there are somethings that closely compare.
about three years ago I became a junior "Hunting Guide" for some Wallstreeters who came up every year to 'hunt'. At a grand a week I couldnt complain, my dog needed chemo and it isnt free (sadly). they came armed with semi auto 12 gauge shotguns with quick load clips. Illegal here in my home state but they had the money to get 'special' permits. Disgusted I still led them to the deer. a herd of about 12 does and maybe 14-16 fawns the buck was hiding in the trees at the back. as they do sometimes.
Despite that i told them not to fire until they saw antlers, they opened fire. 000 buck shot is about 15 pellets of lead being fired as fast as the gun can spit them out. 12 rounds per man (6 in the gun to start plus 6 more in the quick loader clips that they had kept attach to the guns) thats over 11000 pellets flying into that herd. only the buck escaped. the men saw the heads off the biggest of the does and left the rest as 'useless' I dragged every carcass to my truck ( i had just gotten my lisence) loaded my truck, and my double stack trailer, went straight to fish and game. the meat was used to feed rehab. predators and 8 wall streeters can no longer hunt in the state of maine. canned huntings is horrid but so is this. shooting everything you see and taking the heads.
A trophy rots but the satisfaction of your first buck NEVER goes away.
the words my grnadfather spoke to me and his father to him and his father and so on. My last name is Huntley for a reason. my ancestors were the rangers of The Kings forest back in what is now the UK and we have continued that line my protecting wildlife for every generation.
hunting is neccasary for population control if we dont hunt the deer will over populate and starve. but hunting like this with trapped animals and with excassive force not only give hunting a bad name but result in restriction after restriction preventing the future hunters from enjoying the trade of their ancestors.
Hunting isnt bad. People who think they can kill because they can are bad. and that rubs into the name of what they do.
As long as people who have lots of money feel the need to dominate those weaker then themselves (Egomaniacs like a number of U.S big shots that have been'related' to Canned Hunting) then Canned hunting will be around.
I also volonteer with my local Fish and Game division as a tracker and occasional "retreiver" (going to people who have 'adopted' baby wildlife and are now haveing trouble with them). I have been to Canned hunting Raids and have seent he vile nasty....I do not know of a word in ay language that can describe these conditions. Moose TIED to a tree with chains and strong cables so that all they can do is stand there looking at you. Deer packed ten to a dog-kennel barely big enough for five St. Bernards to stand in and still be able to breath. these canned hunts are dispicable. but there are somethings that closely compare.
about three years ago I became a junior "Hunting Guide" for some Wallstreeters who came up every year to 'hunt'. At a grand a week I couldnt complain, my dog needed chemo and it isnt free (sadly). they came armed with semi auto 12 gauge shotguns with quick load clips. Illegal here in my home state but they had the money to get 'special' permits. Disgusted I still led them to the deer. a herd of about 12 does and maybe 14-16 fawns the buck was hiding in the trees at the back. as they do sometimes.
Despite that i told them not to fire until they saw antlers, they opened fire. 000 buck shot is about 15 pellets of lead being fired as fast as the gun can spit them out. 12 rounds per man (6 in the gun to start plus 6 more in the quick loader clips that they had kept attach to the guns) thats over 11000 pellets flying into that herd. only the buck escaped. the men saw the heads off the biggest of the does and left the rest as 'useless' I dragged every carcass to my truck ( i had just gotten my lisence) loaded my truck, and my double stack trailer, went straight to fish and game. the meat was used to feed rehab. predators and 8 wall streeters can no longer hunt in the state of maine. canned huntings is horrid but so is this. shooting everything you see and taking the heads.
A trophy rots but the satisfaction of your first buck NEVER goes away.
the words my grnadfather spoke to me and his father to him and his father and so on. My last name is Huntley for a reason. my ancestors were the rangers of The Kings forest back in what is now the UK and we have continued that line my protecting wildlife for every generation.
hunting is neccasary for population control if we dont hunt the deer will over populate and starve. but hunting like this with trapped animals and with excassive force not only give hunting a bad name but result in restriction after restriction preventing the future hunters from enjoying the trade of their ancestors.
Hunting isnt bad. People who think they can kill because they can are bad. and that rubs into the name of what they do.
Mar 27th, 2009, 04:10 AM
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I have an idea. Let's train all the animals that these mental retards hunt and equip them with guns. Maybe we'll then have a fair fight.
Any person who kills an animal for sport(is it sport?) deserves a similar fate. I personally never want to feel what this is like, but then I'm secure in my sexuality and the size of my appendage!
Any person who kills an animal for sport(is it sport?) deserves a similar fate. I personally never want to feel what this is like, but then I'm secure in my sexuality and the size of my appendage!
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