Switzerland and Italy 8 days

Old Jul 1st, 2016, 10:27 AM
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Switzerland and Italy 8 days

I will traveling with my mother to Switzerland and Italy in September this year from India.
I am now stuck as to how I plan the itinerary considering she is 60.

Here is my current plan
Sep 11:
Reach Zurich by Flight @ 7pm, reach Lucerne night halt
Sep 12:
Mount Titlis and evening leisure
Sep 13:
Jungfrau day trip
Sep 14:
Checkout and reach Zurich and checkin hotel there
Rhine Falls and Lindt Chocolate Factory trip
Sep 15:
Reach Rome
Sep 16:
Rome full day
Sep 17:
Rome full day
Sep 18:
Rome - Venice, reach by 12, checkin hotel
Half day Venice
Sep 19:
Half day Venice
Checkout and leave Venice by 3pm and reach Milan Airport by 7.30pm
10pm Flight back to India

My questions are like, do I need to skip Rome or Venice? I am torn between both of them.
Since my mother might not be able to do a lot of walking and we might skip Vatican, do I skip 1 day in Rome and do 2 days in Venice instead?

In Switzerland, I am planning to get the Swiss Rail Pass, should I skip Zurich and do some day trip to Zermatt / Brienzer Rothorn instead?

Is doing Jungfrau and Titlis during Sep both needed and won't be like similar?
I added both from the point of view the train journeys and the scenery both of them offer.

--
Maddy
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Old Jul 1st, 2016, 10:57 AM
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In Switzerland, I am planning to get the Swiss Rail Pass, should I skip Zurich and do some day trip to Zermatt / Brienzer Rothorn instead?

Is doing Jungfrau and Titlis during Sep both needed and won't be like similar?
I added both from the point of view the train journeys and the scenery both of them offer.>

skip Titlis and spend 2-3 days in the Jungfrau Region - a day trip to Jungfraujoch would mean several hours on a train getting there and back - make it more relaxed base in a mountain village like Grindelwald and chill. Do the Jungfraujoch but also from nearby Interlaken boat rides on either lake bookending Interlaken - take the gondola to the Mannlichen.

From Zurich do the day trip to the Rhine Falls and chocolate factory if that is a priority. Otherwise Lucerne makes a nice 1 or 2 night stop - again sweet lake boat trips.

anyway yes to the Swiss Pass for what you outline - check www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com for lots of great info on Swiss transports and passes, etc.

Going to train to Rome from Switzerland in one day - well it's a very very long day - consider flying from Zurich to Rome.
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Old Jul 1st, 2016, 11:03 AM
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Maddy, Does your mother have physical limitations? You mention her age as 60, but many people that age are still in fine shape to do a physically active trip with lots of walking. Suze
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Old Jul 1st, 2016, 11:06 AM
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I suppose you know that weather is always unpredictable in the Alps. It wouldn't make sense to go to either Titlis or Jungfraujoch if these mountains are in fog and snowfall and if temperatures are below 0 degrees centigrade.
So have a plan B.

If you sleep at Winterthur after arrival and visit the Rhine Falls and may be Schaffhausen the following day, you could proceed by train to Lucern and Interlaken (better base for Jungfrau) and then continue by train to Italy. Interlaken - Milan is 3 hrs by train and Milan - Venice or Rome another 3 hrs.
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Old Jul 1st, 2016, 11:52 AM
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@PalenQ,

Thanks, I will then re-plan by staying a day in Interlaken / Grindelwald for Jungfrau instead of Lucerne. And will stay in Lucerne for 2 days instead of going towards Zurich and staying there.

I agree that train will be like 4.5hrs + 3 hours, but in India we have travelled like 24 hours and more at one stretch so that shouldn't be a problem for us.

@suze,

No she doesn't have any issues, but we don't want to be doing a lot of walking as well. That is why I thought should I reconsider Rome and add Venice. There we can take boat rides (though might end up expensive) but easier.

@neckervd,

Yes, I understand, Have visited the Himalayan region in India and know of the sudden rains, fogs and sunny at the same time.

Thanks, I didn't consider traveling from Interlaken to Milan then onto either Rome/Venice, I will re-look at that.

Plan B is plain and simple for us, just travel the other regions on trains and relax, like take perhaps Glacier and Bernia express or head towards Montreux.

I am still torn between Rome and Venice, maybe I am thinking skip Rome and add a day in Interlaken and make it 3 days in Venice instead.

Typically I have read weather being decent in September and hoping for that.
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Old Jul 1st, 2016, 12:04 PM
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60 is not old for most people. My parents retired in their mid 60s and traveled all over the country by car for more than 20 years. And I would guess that many of the people on this board are 60+ or else close.

Now, your mother may have mobility or health issues - but only you can determine how much activity is good or too much for her. My DH and I are both 59 and routinely wander around the city for hours on foot to work off a nice sunday brunch. We're not climbing K2 - but are certainly reasonably active and could do all of the trip you're talking about.

But only you know your mother, her mobility and her activity level.

In terms of time I think you are trying to cover too much territory for people of any age. I would select either Rome or Venice but not both in the limited time that you have.

I would also focus on one mountain, rather than two - keeping in mind that unless the mountain is clear at the top (and the tops are often in the clouds) you will see nothing and going up is a waste of time and money. And there is no way to tell that before the actual morning. You are more likely to be able to get a clear morning at the lower mountains near Lucerne (Titlus or Pilatus) than the Jungfrau which is so much higher.
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Old Jul 3rd, 2016, 04:44 AM
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Here is my revised itinerary.

Day 1:
Reach Zurich @ 7.30pm
Zurich Night halt
Day 2:
Checkout early @ 7am (I know its early but this is the only option)
Zurich - Chur - Tirano - Chur
Bernina Express
8.32am Chur - 12.45pm Tirano
2.25pm Tirano - 6.20pm Chur

Now my confusion is where to stay, whether in Chur or Filisur or head ahead a bit more to get a different experience and stay in either Sargans or Feldkirch.

Day 3:
Glacier Express to Zermatt
10.30am Chur - 4.10pm Zermatt (If staying at Chur)

If From Filisur
9am, 10am, 12pm

If staying in Sargans
Sargans to Chur is 20mins
Best to take the 12.20 GEX train
If staying in Feldkirch

Feldkirch - Sargans - Chur
9.43am - 10.24am Sargans
10.34am - 10.56am Chur

Explore for 1 hour in Zermatt (Just roam around)

5.37pm Zermatt - 8.15pm Bern
Change @ Visp

Night Halt

Day 4:
Bern till 12pm

Bern - Interlaken - Lucerne
Golden Pass type route

Lucerne Stay @ Ibis Luzern Kriens

Day 5:
Mount Titlis Half Day
Mount Rigi / Pilatus half day or boat rides

Lucerne Stay @ Ibis Luzern Kriens

Day 6:
Lucerne - Lugano
Wilhelm Tell 10am - 3.30pm
Pay 28CHF 1st class upgrade over the Swiss pass

Lugano - Chiasso
Use Swiss pass

Chiasso - Milan - Venice
Reach by 9pm

Day 7:
Venice Full Day

Day 8:
Half Day Venice
8.30am - 12pm

Back to Hotel by 1pm

Venice - Milan
1.50pm - 5pm

Evening Sights/Shopping

Day 9:
Half day Sights/Shopping
8.30am - 12pm

Checkout keep bags @ 1.30pm

Sights of Milan
2pm - 5pm

Milan Central - Airport
5.55pm - 6.45pm or 6.25pm - 7.15pm

Night flight @ 10.20pm

My Questions
- By my calculations it looks 8 days Swiss Pass 2nd class is best option.
- Is my calculation for Wilhelm Tell correct that I need to pay only 28CFH per person extra for upgrade?
- Is this doable, added majority of train rides get to enjoy the Glacier, Bernina, Wilhem Tell + mountain experience in Titlis (I know its half fare but still there is saving).
- Is Day 5 a bit too much or just stick with Titlis and relax that day? I feel since previous day we have rested it should be fine.
- What boat rides to talk / train ride in the 2nd half of Lucerne in Day 5? Pilatus or Rigi or something else, don't want a long boat since next day we do that.
- Where to buy good chocolates in Lucerne (since this is the only place we spend more time) or Chur.
- Do I need to reserve twice for Bernina since I am returning back to Chur or one is sufficient
- Can I reserve that when I reach the station or do I need to reserve before hand?
- Good Hotel suggestions around 140CHF max in Chur/Filisur area for Day 2 or do I head ahead for Sargans/Feldkirch or return Zurich and stay there itself.
- I am torn between staying in Bern on day 3 vs going upto Geneva. Other option is stay in Zermatt/Interlaken and next day goto Lucerne via Interlaken.
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Old Jul 3rd, 2016, 07:51 AM
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- What boat rides to talk / train ride in the 2nd half of Lucerne in Day 5? Pilatus or Rigi or something else, don't want a long boat since next day we do that.>

You're William Tell boat ride will be enough - more than enough perhaps but if doing Rigi or Pilatus it is nice to take a boat to the starting points for those trains or gondolas.

Yes 8-consecutive-day pass may be the best even if only doing 5 days of travel (Lugano - Chiasso is just a few francs - don't need a day on a pass. Check to see if 3 day Swiss Flexipass + 1/2 off Half-Fare Card is not a better deal) - for lots of info on Swiss trains check www.swisstravelystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com (I've bought passes from Byron there for years - will answer all your questions IME expertly even if not buying!) and www.ricksteves.com.
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Old Jul 3rd, 2016, 01:11 PM
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I cannot see what all this zig-zagging and backtracking should be good for.
Why not Zurich - Bernina - Tirano - Lugano - Lucerne - Interlaken - Bern - Zermatt - Brig - Venice?
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Old Jul 3rd, 2016, 07:14 PM
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@PalenQ
Thanks, will look at those forums. I checked Flex pass might not be such a good option for this.

@neckervd
I get that but that would mean we miss out on Glacier express (Chur - Zermatt).
Though I have seen mixed reviews of that train (Slow, expensive ..), it is still something like a not miss when you are in Switzerland for first time.

The only reason for Zig Zagging is that, had our Flight reach Zurich say @ 3 that day, we would have headed to Zermatt first then take the Glacier, Bernina upto Lugano, Wilhelm upto Lucerne, then Lucerne - Venice.
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Old Jul 4th, 2016, 08:32 AM
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it is still something like a not miss when you are in Switzerland for first time.>

I heartily disagree after taking the GEXtwice - a long ride that often becomes boring for many travelers- the best scenery of the GEX is from St Moritz to Reichnau/Chur and from Visp to Zermatt - the rest becomes tediousfor 8-9 hours on a train - the Bernina Express is to me the most awe-inspiring scenic train in Switzerland. If the trip were not so long it would be better.

I'd put that time into a day at least in the Jungfrau Region where you can take trains that are also more scenic IMO than much of the GEX route.

Well that's my take - consider taking the GEX or that route to Andermatt then catch thrilling postal buses that go over two dramatic passes to the Interlaken area.
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