New high-speed train in Italy -- NTV
Apr 1st, 2012, 08:08 AM
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New high-speed train in Italy -- NTV
http://www.ntvspa.it/en/index.html
Had not heard of this before. Wonder if it will be worth the premium.
Had not heard of this before. Wonder if it will be worth the premium.
Apr 1st, 2012, 09:44 PM
#4
It's discussed a bit in these two threads.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...systemwide.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...e-179341-2.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...systemwide.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...e-179341-2.cfm
Apr 2nd, 2012, 02:31 AM
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"It's discussed a bit in these two threads."
Really?
As far as I can see, NTV haven't published their fares (or timetables) yet, so we don't know what service will be offered (except that it won't be using the major city-centre stations in Milan or Rome, and it'll be on a very infrequent timetable for the first couple of months) or what the pricing strategy will be.
If there IS a pricing strategy. The overwhelming majority of new railway companies in Western Europe competing with a legacy incumbent over the past 20 years have swung between premium, discounted, and "premium-priced service in First: aggressive discounts in Cattle" strategies more or less every other month.
Till we know what NTV are offering, and what their price strategy on scrb11's proposed route is the nanosecond he books it (believe me: it'll be different the day after), how can anyone advise on whether a possibly non-existent premium is worth it?
Really?
As far as I can see, NTV haven't published their fares (or timetables) yet, so we don't know what service will be offered (except that it won't be using the major city-centre stations in Milan or Rome, and it'll be on a very infrequent timetable for the first couple of months) or what the pricing strategy will be.
If there IS a pricing strategy. The overwhelming majority of new railway companies in Western Europe competing with a legacy incumbent over the past 20 years have swung between premium, discounted, and "premium-priced service in First: aggressive discounts in Cattle" strategies more or less every other month.
Till we know what NTV are offering, and what their price strategy on scrb11's proposed route is the nanosecond he books it (believe me: it'll be different the day after), how can anyone advise on whether a possibly non-existent premium is worth it?
Apr 2nd, 2012, 04:58 AM
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ah welcome to deregulation of Europe's previously monopolistic train systems and competition - more choices than ever but if Britain's abysmal IMO example of privitization is any harbinger do not expect improved total service.
Apr 2nd, 2012, 05:10 AM
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Would-be passengers may be better looking at the company's new website, under their "Italo" trading name...
http://www.italotreno.it/IT/Pagine/default.aspx
... or, in English, here...
http://www.italotreno.it/EN/Acquista.../overview.aspx
They say: "The start is April 28th, with the first connection: Napoli - Roma- Firenze - Bologna – Milano, the fares will be announced on April 12nd and yet since the 15th tickets sale will be active through all Italo sales channels."
Peter
http://www.italotreno.it/IT/Pagine/default.aspx
... or, in English, here...
http://www.italotreno.it/EN/Acquista.../overview.aspx
They say: "The start is April 28th, with the first connection: Napoli - Roma- Firenze - Bologna – Milano, the fares will be announced on April 12nd and yet since the 15th tickets sale will be active through all Italo sales channels."
Peter
Apr 2nd, 2012, 06:08 AM
#9
>>>So they will have their own stations and tracks?<<
No, as mentioned in the other threads I linked, they are not using some of the main stations that the Trenitalia AV trains use. In Rome, they will be using Tiburtina and Ostiense, not Termini.
http://www.italotreno.it/EN/collegam.../stazioni.aspx
No, as mentioned in the other threads I linked, they are not using some of the main stations that the Trenitalia AV trains use. In Rome, they will be using Tiburtina and Ostiense, not Termini.
http://www.italotreno.it/EN/collegam.../stazioni.aspx
Apr 2nd, 2012, 06:14 AM
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"So they will have their own stations and tracks?"
No. They're using what some might see as secondary stations in Milan and Rome. Less convenient for most tourists - but possibly more convenient for many businesspeople in Lombardy and Lazio - than the ones Trenitalia uses. The same railway lines are available to all railway operating companies, but access to stations has to be commercially negotiated between then train operator and the station owners. It may not be their intention, but NTV's offering - secondary, cheaper, stations using trains with lower operating costs - is closer to Ryanair's than to a premium priced airline.
"Britain's abysmal IMO example of privitization "
Which over the past 15 years has produced the fastest growth in railway use of any developed country. A few more "abysmal" examples elsewhere in Europe and we might make some real progress in cutting unnecessary road use, instead of building endless high-speed, planet destroying, vanity projects.
No. They're using what some might see as secondary stations in Milan and Rome. Less convenient for most tourists - but possibly more convenient for many businesspeople in Lombardy and Lazio - than the ones Trenitalia uses. The same railway lines are available to all railway operating companies, but access to stations has to be commercially negotiated between then train operator and the station owners. It may not be their intention, but NTV's offering - secondary, cheaper, stations using trains with lower operating costs - is closer to Ryanair's than to a premium priced airline.
"Britain's abysmal IMO example of privitization "
Which over the past 15 years has produced the fastest growth in railway use of any developed country. A few more "abysmal" examples elsewhere in Europe and we might make some real progress in cutting unnecessary road use, instead of building endless high-speed, planet destroying, vanity projects.
Apr 2nd, 2012, 09:12 AM
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whatever has caused Britain's leap in rail ridership may not be at all due to privitization as you myopically state is the sole cause - how about the escalation in the price of petrol and the decline in income for many folks not to mention things like London's steep daily congestion fee that basically forces folks from cars onto trains.
A big negative of the privatization I read is that with the myriad of various fares where the early bookings pay less has resulted also in sky high full fares bought on the day of travel - thus detering spur of the moment or sudden need travel as some Brit on Fodor's - the late CW I think - said was his reason for driving up to some far away soccer match rather than taking the train since he was too late for discounted tickets and was not sure what train he wanted to take, etc.
One thing clear about British railways is the lack of meeting the demand by new high-speed railways or new train cars - second class is invariably chock full often IME - I have never ever seen the incredible overcrowding I have seen on some medium-range trains in Britain - like one I rode recently from Lincoln to Peterborough - heck there was hardly even room to stand on that train - British rail operators continual to cancel services suddenly, resulting in overcrowding - anyway what is happening in Italy and across the Continent is different - it is by law requiring state railways to open access to their tracks and some stations to competition - Trenitalia could probably never be privatized due to its huge operating costs with labor contracts, etc.
A big negative of the privatization I read is that with the myriad of various fares where the early bookings pay less has resulted also in sky high full fares bought on the day of travel - thus detering spur of the moment or sudden need travel as some Brit on Fodor's - the late CW I think - said was his reason for driving up to some far away soccer match rather than taking the train since he was too late for discounted tickets and was not sure what train he wanted to take, etc.
One thing clear about British railways is the lack of meeting the demand by new high-speed railways or new train cars - second class is invariably chock full often IME - I have never ever seen the incredible overcrowding I have seen on some medium-range trains in Britain - like one I rode recently from Lincoln to Peterborough - heck there was hardly even room to stand on that train - British rail operators continual to cancel services suddenly, resulting in overcrowding - anyway what is happening in Italy and across the Continent is different - it is by law requiring state railways to open access to their tracks and some stations to competition - Trenitalia could probably never be privatized due to its huge operating costs with labor contracts, etc.
Apr 2nd, 2012, 11:03 PM
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Although first announced years ago, it may have escaped the notice of those more preoccupied with polemics.... however Trenitalia will also soon be running many of their fast trains through the new stations at places such as Tiburtina and Afragola.
The main idea is to speed long-distance travel by getting away from those like Roma Termini and Napoli Centrale - where lines terminate, with the crew having to change "ends" and run the train in reverse for the next leg of their journey - and use instead ones where they simply pass through...
Try starting here:
http://www.rfi.it/cms/v/index.jsp?vg...0080a3e90aRCRD
Peter
The main idea is to speed long-distance travel by getting away from those like Roma Termini and Napoli Centrale - where lines terminate, with the crew having to change "ends" and run the train in reverse for the next leg of their journey - and use instead ones where they simply pass through...
Try starting here:
http://www.rfi.it/cms/v/index.jsp?vg...0080a3e90aRCRD
Peter
Apr 3rd, 2012, 04:36 AM
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Florence SMN also is a dead end terminus that is very congested - some trains only serve Campo di Marte (not sure of name) and Rifredi stations and do not go into SMN.
Peter thanks for that link.
Peter thanks for that link.
Apr 3rd, 2012, 05:51 AM
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I would imagine the private operators are going to cherry-pick the most profitable routes.
Whether that means targeting business people or tourists should be an interesting development.
Milan isn't as big a tourist draw as Rome, Florence and Venice but apparently that north-south route covers a lot of the country.
Whether that means targeting business people or tourists should be an interesting development.
Milan isn't as big a tourist draw as Rome, Florence and Venice but apparently that north-south route covers a lot of the country.
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