Family trip to Spain in March - itinerary and train help, please!
Feb 25th, 2008, 11:26 AM
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Family trip to Spain in March - itinerary and train help, please!
During Holy Week in March, my family of four (two children) will be in Madrid for 7 nights. I want to take a couple of day trips during the week to places that we will all find interesting. I am strongly considering Toledo and Segovia. It looks to me that they are each about a 30-minute train ride away. I am hoping someone can answer these questions:
1. Given that it is Semana Santa, should I buy our train tickets to Toledo and Segovia in advance of our trip?
2. There are a number of different types of trains from Madrid to Segovia -- called Alvia, Ave, Avant, Talgo -- and all look like they take roughly 30 minutes between cities. What is the functional difference to us among the trains? Some of them have only one class of service (tourist) and cost 9 Euros, while others have two classes and cost 20 for tourist and 31 for preferente. Given that the trip is only 30 minutes, is there any reason I should pay the more expensive fare?
3. I understand that in Toledo El Greco's house is closed. What would you recommend we focus on during that trip, and where would you recommend we dine? Should we get advance reservations?
4. Where do you recommend we dine in Segovia, and do we need reservations?
5. What is "not to miss" in those cities?
6. I would love to see the Alhambra in Granada and would replace either Toledo or Segovia with that, but it looks like a long train ride. Is Granada considered a day trip from Madrid?
7. If Granada is not a day trip, and if we decide to take a third day trip, what city would be a "don't miss"?
8. I have heard bullfights don't begin until April, but I have also heard they begin during Semana Santa, which is unusually early this year. Will there be bullfights during Semana Santa in Madrid?
9. We will stay near Plaza Mayor. Can someone recommend good family restaurants that are not totally touristy?
10. Is it worth trying to see flamenco, and would you take children to see it? (9 and 13)
12. Is the Teleferico worth doing?
13. Please critique our remaining Madrid plans:
Day of arrival (Saturday): One museum, Plaza Mayor strolling, tapas and bed.
Sunday: Retiro Park most of the day, plus Prado.
Monday: Suggestions needed since most museums are closed! Dinner with friends Monday night.
Tuesday: Possible day trip to Toledo
Wednesday: Two museums -- one of the remaining "Big Three" plus Sorolla
Thursday: Possible day trip to Segovia
Friday: Another possible day trip (if Granada is a doable day trip, I might do it on Thursday, leave out Segovia, and make Thursday a very long day and relax in Madrid on Friday).
Saturday: Depart for States.
Thank you.
1. Given that it is Semana Santa, should I buy our train tickets to Toledo and Segovia in advance of our trip?
2. There are a number of different types of trains from Madrid to Segovia -- called Alvia, Ave, Avant, Talgo -- and all look like they take roughly 30 minutes between cities. What is the functional difference to us among the trains? Some of them have only one class of service (tourist) and cost 9 Euros, while others have two classes and cost 20 for tourist and 31 for preferente. Given that the trip is only 30 minutes, is there any reason I should pay the more expensive fare?
3. I understand that in Toledo El Greco's house is closed. What would you recommend we focus on during that trip, and where would you recommend we dine? Should we get advance reservations?
4. Where do you recommend we dine in Segovia, and do we need reservations?
5. What is "not to miss" in those cities?
6. I would love to see the Alhambra in Granada and would replace either Toledo or Segovia with that, but it looks like a long train ride. Is Granada considered a day trip from Madrid?
7. If Granada is not a day trip, and if we decide to take a third day trip, what city would be a "don't miss"?
8. I have heard bullfights don't begin until April, but I have also heard they begin during Semana Santa, which is unusually early this year. Will there be bullfights during Semana Santa in Madrid?
9. We will stay near Plaza Mayor. Can someone recommend good family restaurants that are not totally touristy?
10. Is it worth trying to see flamenco, and would you take children to see it? (9 and 13)
12. Is the Teleferico worth doing?
13. Please critique our remaining Madrid plans:
Day of arrival (Saturday): One museum, Plaza Mayor strolling, tapas and bed.
Sunday: Retiro Park most of the day, plus Prado.
Monday: Suggestions needed since most museums are closed! Dinner with friends Monday night.
Tuesday: Possible day trip to Toledo
Wednesday: Two museums -- one of the remaining "Big Three" plus Sorolla
Thursday: Possible day trip to Segovia
Friday: Another possible day trip (if Granada is a doable day trip, I might do it on Thursday, leave out Segovia, and make Thursday a very long day and relax in Madrid on Friday).
Saturday: Depart for States.
Thank you.
Feb 25th, 2008, 12:59 PM
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You may be hopping to do too much with 2 small children in a big city.
I would not count on visiting museums on the first day ( jet lag, museums are huge and not favorite of most children)
A visit to the Royal Palace at one point rather than seeing more museums
The train to take to Toledo is AVE - it is 3o minutes and very popular.
make sure you have tickets ahead of time. It is a lovely spot .
If things have not changed the only train to Segovia was almost 2 hours.
Granada is a long way from Madrid -
about an hour by plane.
Madrid is a big city ;takes time to get around - can be tiring !!!
I would not count on visiting museums on the first day ( jet lag, museums are huge and not favorite of most children)
A visit to the Royal Palace at one point rather than seeing more museums
The train to take to Toledo is AVE - it is 3o minutes and very popular.
make sure you have tickets ahead of time. It is a lovely spot .
If things have not changed the only train to Segovia was almost 2 hours.
Granada is a long way from Madrid -
about an hour by plane.
Madrid is a big city ;takes time to get around - can be tiring !!!
Feb 26th, 2008, 01:24 PM
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bakerstreet,
I'll attempt a few answers. We'll also be in Madrid during Holy Week.
1. Yes! Book your Segovia and Toledo train trips on line NOW at www.renfe.es
2. Book the 9 euro AVANT, or if the schedule is better on the AVE look for a 8.15 WEB fare (but they may now be all gone).
We have tixs, bought last week, for the 8:30 AVE to Segovia. On my other post, I said AVANT both ways, but just checked; we're coming back on the 5 pm AVANT.
3. Toledo is a far more strenuous day trip than Segovia (as in heavy in 16-17th c. art sightseeing and requiring more leg work up and down the hilly, narrow, cobblestone streets).
I think children like Segovia more-"more like recess and less like classwork", says one Fodorite, a former teacher.
If you don't want to choose one over the other and really want to do both, focus in Toledo on the cathedral (hit it first), then the 2 synagogues, the Sinagoga del Tránsito has the Sephardic museum, then see El Greco's famous painting, Burial of the Count of Orgaz in the Iglesia de Santo Tomé, walk over the Alcántara bridge for views of the city or take a taxi up to the Parador (still under renovation) for the view that El Greco painted, buy marzapán
Maybe eat lunch at the Hostal del Cardenal (same owners as Madrid's Sobrinos de Botín), tucked into the city's walls at the Bisagra Gate. Since it's Holy Week, I would reserve at 925 224 900
In Toledo the Alcázar is still closed for renovation, the El Grecos from the El Greco museum are on tour (in Seville).
4. If you're up for the local speciality, tostón (roast suckling pig), then dine at one of the 3 legendary restaurants, Cándido, Duque or José María. I've dined at all 3 with families. The cuisine and execution of it is essentially the same. Cándido has the best, most memorable setting, next to the Aqueduct and grandson is doing a steady job brining it back as number one, but José María gets less tourist traffic. Yes, reserve!
If you want less expensive, non typical roast fare, go to Narizotas on the street that leads from Aqueduct to Plaza Mayor.
5. Not to miss in Segovia-Aqueduct, cathedral, fairy-tale, Disney-esque Alcázar and a taxi ride down (or long walk) to the confluence of the two rivers below the Alcázar for amazing photo ops.
6. No-no-no, to Granada. You need 2 days minimum.
7. I don't think you want to fit in a 3rd day trip. Stay in Madrid, slow down the pace, as danon says, enjoy the city, and see the Holy Week processions.
We'll go to the Wed. and Thurs. ones in Old Madrid (starting about 7 pm). The famous Good Friday procession, Nuestro Padre Jesús Nazareno, starts near the Plaza de Jesús at 7.
8. At Las Ventas there's a corrida on Easter Sunday. But I would not take my children to a bullfight.
9. I have a list of restaurants that are easy on a family budget in my Madrid guide at www.maribelsguides.com
You could try the new Ginger on the Plaza del Angel, across from the ME hotel, and Terra Mundi on Lope de Vega or Come Prima on Echegaray.
10. I've seen plenty of families with young children at the first evening flamenco show at Casa Patas, but show them some short flamenco videos on youtube and let them decide if it is of interest.
www.casapatas.com
12. Kids like the teleférico.
13. I wouldn't do a museum on your first day. Just stroll and get to know Old Madrid by walking around.
On Monday the Reina Sofía is open, but the 400+ Picassos from Paris are there now, so expect crowds. Do Picasso, Dalí and Miró interest your children?
On Wednesday, I would see the Changing of the Guard at the Royal Palace between 11 and 2.
Hope this helps!
I'll attempt a few answers. We'll also be in Madrid during Holy Week.
1. Yes! Book your Segovia and Toledo train trips on line NOW at www.renfe.es
2. Book the 9 euro AVANT, or if the schedule is better on the AVE look for a 8.15 WEB fare (but they may now be all gone).
We have tixs, bought last week, for the 8:30 AVE to Segovia. On my other post, I said AVANT both ways, but just checked; we're coming back on the 5 pm AVANT.
3. Toledo is a far more strenuous day trip than Segovia (as in heavy in 16-17th c. art sightseeing and requiring more leg work up and down the hilly, narrow, cobblestone streets).
I think children like Segovia more-"more like recess and less like classwork", says one Fodorite, a former teacher.
If you don't want to choose one over the other and really want to do both, focus in Toledo on the cathedral (hit it first), then the 2 synagogues, the Sinagoga del Tránsito has the Sephardic museum, then see El Greco's famous painting, Burial of the Count of Orgaz in the Iglesia de Santo Tomé, walk over the Alcántara bridge for views of the city or take a taxi up to the Parador (still under renovation) for the view that El Greco painted, buy marzapán
Maybe eat lunch at the Hostal del Cardenal (same owners as Madrid's Sobrinos de Botín), tucked into the city's walls at the Bisagra Gate. Since it's Holy Week, I would reserve at 925 224 900
In Toledo the Alcázar is still closed for renovation, the El Grecos from the El Greco museum are on tour (in Seville).
4. If you're up for the local speciality, tostón (roast suckling pig), then dine at one of the 3 legendary restaurants, Cándido, Duque or José María. I've dined at all 3 with families. The cuisine and execution of it is essentially the same. Cándido has the best, most memorable setting, next to the Aqueduct and grandson is doing a steady job brining it back as number one, but José María gets less tourist traffic. Yes, reserve!
If you want less expensive, non typical roast fare, go to Narizotas on the street that leads from Aqueduct to Plaza Mayor.
5. Not to miss in Segovia-Aqueduct, cathedral, fairy-tale, Disney-esque Alcázar and a taxi ride down (or long walk) to the confluence of the two rivers below the Alcázar for amazing photo ops.
6. No-no-no, to Granada. You need 2 days minimum.
7. I don't think you want to fit in a 3rd day trip. Stay in Madrid, slow down the pace, as danon says, enjoy the city, and see the Holy Week processions.
We'll go to the Wed. and Thurs. ones in Old Madrid (starting about 7 pm). The famous Good Friday procession, Nuestro Padre Jesús Nazareno, starts near the Plaza de Jesús at 7.
8. At Las Ventas there's a corrida on Easter Sunday. But I would not take my children to a bullfight.
9. I have a list of restaurants that are easy on a family budget in my Madrid guide at www.maribelsguides.com
You could try the new Ginger on the Plaza del Angel, across from the ME hotel, and Terra Mundi on Lope de Vega or Come Prima on Echegaray.
10. I've seen plenty of families with young children at the first evening flamenco show at Casa Patas, but show them some short flamenco videos on youtube and let them decide if it is of interest.
www.casapatas.com
12. Kids like the teleférico.
13. I wouldn't do a museum on your first day. Just stroll and get to know Old Madrid by walking around.
On Monday the Reina Sofía is open, but the 400+ Picassos from Paris are there now, so expect crowds. Do Picasso, Dalí and Miró interest your children?
On Wednesday, I would see the Changing of the Guard at the Royal Palace between 11 and 2.
Hope this helps!
Feb 27th, 2008, 08:01 AM
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hi bakerstreet-
Maribel and others have given you great advice already. I'm no expert but just returned from a 12-day trip to Spain, so I'll answer some of your questions:
3) For Toledo, apart from the Cathedral, Sinagoga del Tránsito, and, the Iglesia de Santo Tomé, you can also visit the Museo Santa Cruz. It is free and has a few El Grecos. The upper floor has a nice porcelain exhibit.
I also recommend visiting the Real Fundación de Toledo. It's €3pp and you can watch a 15-min video on Toledo and then tour the museum which houses sculptures by Victorio Macho. But the best part is the <b>view</b> from there. In addition, they currently have one of El Greco's painting on view - <i>View of Toledo</i>.
Even though the Alcazar in Toledo is closed, I also recommend walking up there for the view.
4) I ate at Meson de Candido for lunch in Segovia. The suckling pig is <b>incredible</b>! It wasn't crowded for lunch on a Monday but it won't hurt to reserve, esp during Holy Week.
7) I'd suggest you stay put in Madrid instead of doing another day trip. I also recommend against going to a museum on the arrival day as you'll all be tired and jet-lagged.
I also recommend avoiding 2 museums in one day. As much as I LOVE art and museums, I find 2/day a bit overwhelming. Others recommend Palacio Real and I think your children will enjoy it.
Maribel and others have given you great advice already. I'm no expert but just returned from a 12-day trip to Spain, so I'll answer some of your questions:
3) For Toledo, apart from the Cathedral, Sinagoga del Tránsito, and, the Iglesia de Santo Tomé, you can also visit the Museo Santa Cruz. It is free and has a few El Grecos. The upper floor has a nice porcelain exhibit.
I also recommend visiting the Real Fundación de Toledo. It's €3pp and you can watch a 15-min video on Toledo and then tour the museum which houses sculptures by Victorio Macho. But the best part is the <b>view</b> from there. In addition, they currently have one of El Greco's painting on view - <i>View of Toledo</i>.
Even though the Alcazar in Toledo is closed, I also recommend walking up there for the view.
4) I ate at Meson de Candido for lunch in Segovia. The suckling pig is <b>incredible</b>! It wasn't crowded for lunch on a Monday but it won't hurt to reserve, esp during Holy Week.
7) I'd suggest you stay put in Madrid instead of doing another day trip. I also recommend against going to a museum on the arrival day as you'll all be tired and jet-lagged.
I also recommend avoiding 2 museums in one day. As much as I LOVE art and museums, I find 2/day a bit overwhelming. Others recommend Palacio Real and I think your children will enjoy it.
Feb 27th, 2008, 08:23 AM
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bakerstreet - also see my thread about the new Segovia train station in case you decide to go there as a day trip:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35111914
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35111914
Feb 27th, 2008, 09:17 AM
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bakerstreet,
Ditto to what yk has told you regarding the Museo-Hospital de Santa Cruz and its pinoteca downstairs with numerous El Grecos, and the very interesting Ceramics exhibit upstairs.
I didn't mention it because I didn't know how museum intensive you want your Toledo trip to be with your children, but it's free.
And it doesn't close during siesta. Open from 10-6:30. On Sundays and holidays until 2.
It's located on Calle Cervantes, just below the Plaza de Zocodover, the main square.
And starting March 12 and running until May 25, the museum will house a special exhibit, "The Spanish Portrait in the 19th Century from the Prado", with 67 works from the Prado's collection by Goya, Sorolla and others.
If you decide on dining at Mesón de Cándido in Segovia, you can reserve by calling 921 425 911
See the menu and the pictures of its unbeatable location here
www.mesondecandido.es
Ditto to what yk has told you regarding the Museo-Hospital de Santa Cruz and its pinoteca downstairs with numerous El Grecos, and the very interesting Ceramics exhibit upstairs.
I didn't mention it because I didn't know how museum intensive you want your Toledo trip to be with your children, but it's free.
And it doesn't close during siesta. Open from 10-6:30. On Sundays and holidays until 2.
It's located on Calle Cervantes, just below the Plaza de Zocodover, the main square.
And starting March 12 and running until May 25, the museum will house a special exhibit, "The Spanish Portrait in the 19th Century from the Prado", with 67 works from the Prado's collection by Goya, Sorolla and others.
If you decide on dining at Mesón de Cándido in Segovia, you can reserve by calling 921 425 911
See the menu and the pictures of its unbeatable location here
www.mesondecandido.es
Feb 28th, 2008, 06:53 AM
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This is such great advice! Maribel and yk, I now have reservations for lunch at Candido and can't wait to go to Segovia! The restaurant was prompt to respond when I emailed them. For anyone interested in the restaurant, since the hours don't appear to be posted on the website, it is open for lunch from 1 to 4 p.m. and for dinner 8 to 11 p.m., every day.
Thanks for the link to the Segovia train station information -- I was wondering whether "Segovia AV" was different from "Segovia" on the renfe website.
I tried earlier to buy train tickets but didn't have our passport numbers with me. (Not sure why they need our passport numbers for travel within the country, but the website wouldn't let me buy tickets without that information filled it). Now that I am ready to buy the tickets on the website, which I have not done before, I am wondering how I actually get the tickets. Is it "ticketless" travel so I just show ID, or do they mail me tickets, or do I pick them up at the station? Do I get to select our seats, or is it open seating? If seat selection is possible, I'd like my family of four to be together -- will I be able to do that on the website?
Final question (at least for now -- you guys have been SO helpful!): Do you know of any car and driver service I can hire to take my family to El Escorial/Valle de los Caidos and back to Madrid if we decide not to do the bus?
I will take everyone's advice and avoid a museum on our first day. Instead, if the weather is good, I'm thinking the Teleferico for a good view of the city in the afternoon to help keep us all awake...if the weather is bad, maybe the zoo/aquarium? Looking for things the kids will enjoy.
Thanks to yk's trip report, I will know to print Maribel's guide and take it with me.
Thanks for the link to the Segovia train station information -- I was wondering whether "Segovia AV" was different from "Segovia" on the renfe website.
I tried earlier to buy train tickets but didn't have our passport numbers with me. (Not sure why they need our passport numbers for travel within the country, but the website wouldn't let me buy tickets without that information filled it). Now that I am ready to buy the tickets on the website, which I have not done before, I am wondering how I actually get the tickets. Is it "ticketless" travel so I just show ID, or do they mail me tickets, or do I pick them up at the station? Do I get to select our seats, or is it open seating? If seat selection is possible, I'd like my family of four to be together -- will I be able to do that on the website?
Final question (at least for now -- you guys have been SO helpful!): Do you know of any car and driver service I can hire to take my family to El Escorial/Valle de los Caidos and back to Madrid if we decide not to do the bus?
I will take everyone's advice and avoid a museum on our first day. Instead, if the weather is good, I'm thinking the Teleferico for a good view of the city in the afternoon to help keep us all awake...if the weather is bad, maybe the zoo/aquarium? Looking for things the kids will enjoy.
Thanks to yk's trip report, I will know to print Maribel's guide and take it with me.
Feb 28th, 2008, 07:10 AM
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bakerstreet-
Regarding buying renfe tickets online, first, I find this thread quite helpful:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35097045
Even though renfe site has Enligsh version to purchase your ticket, I find the Spanish version more reliable.
Make sure you check to see your train offeres "web" fare or "Estrella" fare. Web fare gives 60% off and estrella fare 40% off. However, I think these fares are non-refundable.
Okay, when you're ready to purchase your ticket, the most important thing is <b>turn off your pop-up blocker</b>. After your purchase has gone through, the ticket comes up as a pop-up pdf file which you can print it out. You will also get an email notification of your purchase, but the email doesn't have the pdf attachment.
Once you print it out (it has a bar code, your train info, your seat), you can just use it to get on the train. There is no need to exchange this "ticket" for any other ticket. No one (of my 6 trips) asked for any ID either. When you purchase your ticket, you're automatically assigned a seat. I don't think there's a way to choose your seat.
In the event that your ticket didn't print out for whatever reason, you can still get your ticket when you arrive at the train station. Just bring along your email confirmation which will have your "localization code" and type that into any of the e-kiosks at the station; it'll spit out the ticket for you.
Hope this helps.
Regarding buying renfe tickets online, first, I find this thread quite helpful:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35097045
Even though renfe site has Enligsh version to purchase your ticket, I find the Spanish version more reliable.
Make sure you check to see your train offeres "web" fare or "Estrella" fare. Web fare gives 60% off and estrella fare 40% off. However, I think these fares are non-refundable.
Okay, when you're ready to purchase your ticket, the most important thing is <b>turn off your pop-up blocker</b>. After your purchase has gone through, the ticket comes up as a pop-up pdf file which you can print it out. You will also get an email notification of your purchase, but the email doesn't have the pdf attachment.
Once you print it out (it has a bar code, your train info, your seat), you can just use it to get on the train. There is no need to exchange this "ticket" for any other ticket. No one (of my 6 trips) asked for any ID either. When you purchase your ticket, you're automatically assigned a seat. I don't think there's a way to choose your seat.
In the event that your ticket didn't print out for whatever reason, you can still get your ticket when you arrive at the train station. Just bring along your email confirmation which will have your "localization code" and type that into any of the e-kiosks at the station; it'll spit out the ticket for you.
Hope this helps.
Feb 28th, 2008, 11:38 AM
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Hi bakerstreet,
Glad you have your Botín dinner reservations and your Segovia tickets!
Just a note about the WEB and ESTRELLA fares for anyone else interested:
Now Renfe has put icons on the train list pages to show which trains have WEB and ESTRELLA fares. Look for the W and the *. If you don't see them, they're not availble for that particular train.
And the AVANT trains to Toledo and Segovia have one fare only, 9€ and one class of service, tourist.
About exchanges:
The WEB fares are non-exchangeable.
To exchange an ESTRELLA fare for a later train on the same day, there is a 15% penalty;
for another day, a 20% penalty.
If you do this online under 7 days prior to departure, you will need to pay the difference between the ESTRELLA fare and the general (peak) fare, since ESTRELLA fares need to be purchased a minimum of 7 days out.
And once your train has departed, unused tickets are non-refundable.
Hope this helps a bit more to decipher this new and confusing Renfe system.
Glad you have your Botín dinner reservations and your Segovia tickets!
Just a note about the WEB and ESTRELLA fares for anyone else interested:
Now Renfe has put icons on the train list pages to show which trains have WEB and ESTRELLA fares. Look for the W and the *. If you don't see them, they're not availble for that particular train.
And the AVANT trains to Toledo and Segovia have one fare only, 9€ and one class of service, tourist.
About exchanges:
The WEB fares are non-exchangeable.
To exchange an ESTRELLA fare for a later train on the same day, there is a 15% penalty;
for another day, a 20% penalty.
If you do this online under 7 days prior to departure, you will need to pay the difference between the ESTRELLA fare and the general (peak) fare, since ESTRELLA fares need to be purchased a minimum of 7 days out.
And once your train has departed, unused tickets are non-refundable.
Hope this helps a bit more to decipher this new and confusing Renfe system.
Feb 28th, 2008, 02:03 PM
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bakerstreet,
An answer to your other question:
I do know of a guided tour by car to take your family to El Escorial-Valle de los Caídos from Madrid.
See
www.madrid-museum-tours.org
Click on Tours. It's their tour #14.
They are all licensed guides.
An answer to your other question:
I do know of a guided tour by car to take your family to El Escorial-Valle de los Caídos from Madrid.
See
www.madrid-museum-tours.org
Click on Tours. It's their tour #14.
They are all licensed guides.
