Kris

My husband and I are planning a two week vacation to Rome, Pompeii and Florence in Sept. or Oct. 2000. We would like to bring our daughter (who will be 18 months old in Sept.)with us but have heard that it can be very difficult to travel with a toddler. We don't have the following options, including -getting a baby sitter for her for two weeks, -bringing our nanny along on the trip, or cutting the vacation to one week. She's a very mild-mannered little girl and is overall good natured. BUT, she will still be nearly two years old in Sept. Any input is much appreciated, especially direct experiences from parents that have roamed Rome with a toddler. Tips, pointers, etc. Thank you!!

notagain

Type in some key words and do a search here, Kris. You will find more info and opinions than you can handle about traveling with little ones, anywhere and everywhere.

Dee

Is there a special reason you want to bring your baby along? She will have absolutely no idea that she is in Italy, to appreciate it or remember it. If you have a nanny, why not leave the child with the nanny for the two weeks? It can be done. But why? I'm not anti-kid, baby, child. But, kids at that age, traveling can be a hassle. It's crowded, and just difficult to manuever around. Plus, they have no interest in being there. My suggestion is to get someone that you trust with your life to look after your daughter, and go and have a nice, relaxing vacation. You deserve it.

lindi

When I was little, my family often travelled. We went by car, and it required getting up at 4 a.m. My sister and me never had any problem getting up, we just continued sleeping in the car. Moreover we never had any reservations, we just stopped for the night at a place we liked. (But we did have the option of only a daytrip if we didn't find a place, or sleeping in the car-which we never actually did.) We went to many countries in Europe this way and never ever had a problem. It is true that I don't remember many things from when I was 4 or 5 years old, but I remember some, like how much we liked collecting shells at an Italian beach etc. Plus we have some fabulous photos to refresh our memory. Yes, sometimes we made our parents tired by our constant activity (we never went tired), but it is more or less the same if you stay at home. It is true however that we always had our own car, and didn't have to fly. We have friends who like to travel, and now they have a little girl less than a year old. They went mountain climbing (just the mild type) with her when she was only a couple of months old, and they all loved it! Fresh air, birds singing etc. They carried the baby on their backs, father for a while, then the mother... <BR>So overall I think you will have a better experience as a family. I also think that the fact that I am very good in learning languages might have something to do with the fact that I was exposed to many when I was little. And of course I (still) love to travel!

Beth Y.

I have a 20 month old girl and went to France in September and am heading to Spain for two weeks this summer. My theory is, the more places you take them, the more places you can take them. My girl was great, but then, just like at home, we did not expect miracles. Just make sure you schedule in a nap (even if it is in the stroller while touring museums... we have great pictures of her fast asleep in her stroller in front of the Mona Lisa!). You will figure this stuff out, but here is our advice. Assuming that you are taking a flight fro the US at night, the flight is no problem, since she will be asleep for most of it. However, she will also be awake when she gets there. Just be ready for staying up the first night a bit with her. My husband and I took turns the first night, getting sleep and dealing with her. Then try to quickly get her on the local schedule. <BR>Second, don't take too much food and diapers, etc, there will be stores there with everything. Find a market early on and get provisions like diapers, wipes, and food that you know she will eat, for us it was things like Kix or other cereal, pretzels, fruit, and keep it in your bag so when she gets cranky, you have something to appease her. <BR>Third, make sure you engage her into things at her level. For instance, stop and look at animals. When you are in museums (we went to one every day) walk her around and point out things in the pictures.. "See the doggy" etc. Our daughter has gotten so she really looks at art now. In the REubens room in the Louvre, she keep running around shrieking and pointing at the pictures, they were very colorful and had lots of animals and she loved them. Ignore the people who say "she won't know where she is, so why bother". Every new experience you can give your daughter will be good for her and build memories for you. <BR>Also, make sure you schedule in play time. We would stop at little parks and playgrounds and just let her go. In Paris, lots of small, beautiful churches had them. What better way to really feel the country your in than to sit down with the other parents and let yourr kids play together?! The downtime for you is not bad either! <BR>Make sure that you are not a real pain. It only happened a couple times, but if she was being disruptive, we just took her out. The more you engage them in what is going on and be mindful of their schedules, the less this is a problem. Also, take plenty of pacifiers. <BR>If possible, stay in hotels that have good service and/or lots of room. In the country side, we made sure we stayed in a farm hotel with a pool, so part of our vacation could be just looking at the animals, playing in the pool and having uninterrupted time as a family. In the city, having a good concierge was a godsend. We took our baby monitor and got to know the concierge very well. She agreed to arrange a babysitter, or, on her suggestion, we just put her down, turned on the monitor, gave it to her and told her what restaurant down the street (she had made the reservations) we would be at. We were able to have a couple of blissful evenings out alone. <BR>FInally, what to take. We took along everything to make our lives easier, and just humped it around. We just limited our hotel changes to make it easier. We took the pack and play for her to sleep in, which she is used to, we took an umbrella stroller, a necessity, and her carseat for the plane and car. <BR>FInally, do it do it do it. If you daughter is good natured, I see no problem. Get her used to experienceing new things and look at them as wonderful, rather than being frightened about new things. My child will be a terrible two when we leave for Spain!

Sandy

I've been to Rome with my them 3 and 5 year olds. Why take young children to Europe? Because it gives you a different perspective. When we went we couldn't believe all the positive attention and help we received because of the young ones. We were even given an exclusive walking tour of the Vatican Gardens by a nun we met on our way to St. Peter's. We were introduced to nuns who did the laundry for the Pope and we attended the first Saturday rosary led by the Pope (which we didn't know about). The friars at San Callisto catcombs were joking around with the kids and everyone else were just as helpful and friendly. No, they weren't distractions because we weren't mugged or anything. Pompeii was a big playground for them as it was an educational tour for us. But who cares? We all enjoyed the trip and had a good. If we had taken the trip with out the little ones, it definitely would have turned out differently, not necessarily better or worse, but just differently! So take your toddler! Just be prepared and be open for the unexpected. Have a good trip!

Dee

Pompeii a big playground for them? Well, thats interesting. I don't think that Pompeii is known for being a playground. But you're probably the parent that lets their little overindulged tike do anything they want, regardless if its not the time or the place. The only place that children should run around and play in is a playground or park. Or a place that is specifically for children. Other than that, you're annoying people.

angel

I've read the kids travel postings up and down Fodor's over time -- it will really help you, Kris. <BR> <BR>Can't give you a direct experience, but a 20 month old "running around and shrieking in the Reubens room" (Beth) breaks my heart. Let's hope there weren't any pictures hung low or vases on pedestals. <BR> <BR>Putting the child down, giving the monitor to the concierge and going to a restaurant down the street (Beth) seems like an unusual recommendation. I really don't understand this lifestyle. <BR>

Sissy

Well Beth - I really pity the poor people that have saved years for a vacation in Spain that you are planning to release your Terrible Two on. It seems to me like not only are you not thinking of others you have no regard for your child.

Sandy

Obviously, you are bitter because you didn't experience travelling as a young child. Yes Pompeii as a big playground! We tried to recreate what life would have been at that time. We showed them where the stores may have been and pretended to play store. We showed them what the different parts of the house may have been and played pretend. No, we don't travel like you and rest who go for 5 five minutes, take a picture and say we've been there. When we were there, a guide encouraged us to touch, feel and imagine. And that't what we did. No, they didn't scream and run around like maniacs. They didn't do anything disrespectful. As matter of fact they behaved better than most adult tourists who disregarded the "do not signs", those who suddenly cannot read signs and instructions and left their manners at home. And there were a lot of them! Unfortunatley, the reason we have annoying, intolerrant adult tourists is because they were never exposed to this cultural experience early in life! Why should this rich, cultural experience be limited to European children and not their American counterparts?

reality-bites

So you are planning to bring a 2-yr old to Florence, one of the art capitals of the world, during a Jubilee year? Exactly whose idea was THAT? You may not only be about to waste YOUR money, but, potentially, about to ruin somebody else's well deserved enjoyment of a (possibly) once in a lifetime experience. You want family time, go to Disney. You want an adult vacation, go to Europe for a week by yourselves.

Enzo

BRAVO SANDY! I totally agree with you! I too am planning a trip to Rome this summer and have no intention of leaving my son at home with a NANNY! We take him everywhere with us. We've been to Greece (he was one year old) and to Vancouver in the past year and did not regret it one bit. Obviously he won't remember the trip, but we will. This is a vacation. Most of us employed people work all year and look forward to their two weeks vacation to spend time with their families, and here you have people like DEE and SISSY telling others to leave their kids behind. I don't think so!! Most people who don't like having kids around usually are people who don't have kids or are too impatient to handle them. <BR> <BR>KRIS! Enjoy your vacation! You are doing the right thing! The only thing I can advise you is too travel light...do not over pack!! Italy has everything we have. It may cost more but it will save you having to lug everything from here. <BR> <BR>Ciao!!! <BR>

BRAT

To Dee, Sissy and Realitybites...Please be more specific and share your experiences on why you have arrived at such conclusions? Did a 2-year old ruin your travel? How? Or did you travel as toddler and hated it? Or did you take your own toddler who ruined your own vacation and others too? Please share so everyone can learn from these experiences. Unfortuntely, even if we want so much to go to places kids-free there will always be families who will travel with kids unless Europe closes its door to families with young children. Name calling and making judgements won't help anyone.

merriem

Take your kids, I frankly don't care! However, I am tired of long airline flights with crying kids that get the bulkhead seats! It happened on our trip to Australia.......we gave up our "premier" bulkhead seats, because they had but two little children next to us.....and then listened to a very upset baby one row away for nine hours from Budapest. If you have a nanny, it is probably because you don't want to be too involved with your children (this is from experience speaking.....had a family member work for a family as a nanny), so just leave the child at home......Guess, I do care, as little children don't like to have their routine disrupted.

Cindy

Oh great. Now we have Merriem telling us that if one has a nanny, that means they don't want to be involved with their children. With all due respect, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. People have nannies for all sorts of reasons. I am a stay-at home mom working part-time from home, and having a nanny help me out allows me to have someone watch my youngest child so I can volunteer extensively in the schools of my older kids (and mow the lawn, help with homework, buy groceries, pay the bills, do the taxs, get the cars fixed, etc.) But why am I telling you this? It is really none of your business how other people handle their child care. People have all sorts of arrangements for all sorts of reasons, and I think I speak for a lot of parents when I say that other people should just leave us alone and keep their uninformed opinions to themselves. My view is that if someone wants to take their toddler to Europe, that means they will miss out on many things and will sometimes inconvenience others. But I figure they will inconvenience me for just a few minutes, but they will have to put up with their own whining kids 24/7. And if you are in the bulkhead and don't want to move, you don't have to. You could just stand up for yourself and decline. (I know this because people have refused to change seats so my family could sit together on planes.)

merriem

Cindy.....Did I hit a nerve? However, I DO know from FIRST HAND experience, that most people that have nannies leave their parenting to the hired help. Justify it anyway you like. Also, the bulkhead seating was four across. We had two together and the two children were put next to us. So FYI, it would have been impossible to REFUSE to give up our seats, the children would still be there.......We moved, and the parents with another baby took our good seats......Don't get so upset about nannies.....I realize it is a very IN thing now with this two family income....just like the SUV sitting in the driveway. Everything will be okay, I just think that parents should raise their own children....and take them traveling when the children are old enough to appreciate it.

Cindy

Merriem, <BR> <BR>Yes, you did hit a nerve, and I'm sorry to have been so hard on you. But I still think you're buying into the "People with nannies are highpowered spoiled yuppies who just want an SUV in the driveway and don't want to parent their kids" stereotype, as evidenced by your comment that it is a very "IN" thing (suggesting that people have nannies just to be fashionable) and the comment about the SUV in the driveway (suggesting that people who have nannies want to be fashionable by having expensive cars, I suppose). My view is that there are all types of parents doing all types of things, and one is in dangerous territory when one expresses sweeping opinions based on the experience of one family member who worked as a nanny for one family. I just wish people would stop being so judgmental about the difficult choices of others who have to figure out the best way to make things work for their families.

Dawn

I think most people realize that it is difficult to face choices, we all do it everyday. Travel with a toddler is difficult. I think the reason that this issue always brings out such passion is that many (not most) people with kids seems to think that the world should revolve around them and their tykes. Forget for a minute about going to Europe. Just spend 5 minutes at your local mall sitting on a bench people watching. Go to a restaurant and watch how most kids behave. You'll know why people feel the way they do. Traveling with babies is difficult, unless you have no concern for others around you. Everyone works hard, not just parents with children. What about the parents of children out of the house, that now want to go and enjoy themselves? We are establishing more and more places for families with kids, and I think its great. If more parents were concerned on how their little dear acted in public you probably wouldn't see the replies you get on this forum. Rome is very crowded in September, not to mention still very hot, and this year is the Jubileo. I'm all for taking kids with you when you travel, as long as they are old enough to have control over themselves, know how to behave in public, and have respect for others.

Sissy

Thank you very much Dawn- WELL SAID. It is however not only a matter of the children being old enough to handle themselves it is just as important that their parents take the time out of their meal, sightseeing (or on a plane sleeping or eating) to keep their children out of everyone else's space. It was after all their parents decision to give them this "enlightening" experience that everyone around them has to put up with.

Cindy

Well put, Dawn. My youngest is a two-year old, and I know he is an unpredictable handful. That is why we don't go anywhere and don't have any fun. You won't see us at a restaurant aside from McDonalds. And I certainly agree that those of us with young kids should make a huge effort not to strain others with this problem. Believe me, most of us feel your disapproving glares and we wish we could be anyplace else when our child starts misbehaving. <BR> <BR>I will allow, however, that there might be other more fortunate parents out there who have kids who will behave consistently, and if they want to chance a trip to Europe, I guess they can try. My son and I will see the rest of you there in about 10 years. In the meantime, I think there are far better places to vacation when one has young kids than Europe. <BR> <BR>By the way, I have seen questions on this forum in which people ask whether it is wise to take a toddler to Europe. Usually, there are several response from parents who took a toddler and had a great time. Why is it that I have yet to see a response from someone who had admits that taking their toddler was a huge mistake?