ThomasH

My girlfriend and I are going to Europe for 3 weeks in the middle of April next year and looking for a bit of help with the itinerary.

Also if anyone knows of any seasonal events or festivals taking place around this time that would be awesome!


I am curious regarding transportation and if a Eurail select 4 country pass would be the way to go.
$964 for two 4 Country pass 8 travel days

1 Fly from LA to Paris
2 Paris
3 Paris
4 Paris Day trip to Versailles
5 Paris Train from Paris to Bruge
6 Bruge
7 Bruge Train from Bruge to Amsterdam
8 Amsterdam
9 Amsterdam
10 Amsterdam Day trip
11 Amsterdam Train from Amsterdam to Cologne
12 Rhine River Rhine river cruise from Cologne to Mainz
13 Train from Mainz to Munich Stop in Stuggart contiunue on to Munich
14 Munich
15 Munich Train from Munich to Prague
16 Prague
17 Prague
18 Prague
19 Prague

Any advice much appreciated!

adrienne

As a quick answer I'd say that the rail pass was too much money, particularly as you only have 4 travel days. You can check train ticket pricing and compare and then decide for yourself. Check tickets 60 to 90 days out for best fares.

France: https://www.capitainetrain.com/
Belgium: http://www.belgianrail.be/en/Default.aspx
Netherlands: http://www.ns.nl/en/travellers/home
Germany: http://www.bahn.de/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml

Remove Bruges from your itinerary and have more time in Paris. Two days is really not enough time.

PalenQ

Whether you want a pass or not depends on whether you want first class travel and whether you want total flexibility to hop any train anytime - if either of those are wanted then yes a Eurail Selectpass may be cheaper than regular full-fare tickets.

You actually have 7 days where a pass could be viable, including the Rhine boats on which it is full valid.

If you want to go into each individual country's web site and book weeks or months in advance 2nd class tickets that are typically either non-changeable nor refundable or hard to do so then that may save a little money - but you lose flexibility and go 2nd class - IME of years of European rail travel first class has significant benefits - especially for folks with baggage and yes just hopping on trains as there are usually quite a few empty seats in first class but not always in 2nd class.

So the efficacy of a pass depends on several factors besides total cost of alternatives.

anyway for lots of great info on European trains and passes check out these IMO superb sites - www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets - www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

StCirq

Forget the rail pass. You know what days you want to travel, so you're not looking for "total flexibility," and $900+ dollars is a ridiculously high price to pay for those train rides when you can buyu point-to-point tickets for half that/

I totally disagree about 1st class tickets - they are completely unnecessary IMO and a waste of money you could spend on other things. There is barely any difference at all between 1st and 2nd class on just about any European train. Google Man in Seat 61 for the best information on European train travel. He will assure you that 1st class travel is usually a waste of money and that most train passes are also.

Otherwise, your plan looks pretty good, but I'd spend more time in Paris and wouldn't necessarily go to Versailles.

bigtyke

Day 12 - Don't do the Rhine boat from cologne to Mainz. I did it years ago in the opposite (faster) direction and it was waaaaaay too loooong. At most do the Koblenz to Bingen section.

PalenQ

Board the boats at Rudesheim if possible as many boats begin there and you cana get the better seats - the ones on top deck out front before folks get on at Bingen right across the river.

Rudesheim to Koblenz - downstream as bigtyke found out - is the best choice - many folks I've seen get bored after an hour or so so going downstream, quicker, is often better.

Russ

11 Amsterdam Train from Amsterdam to Cologne
12 Rhine River Rhine river cruise from Cologne to Mainz
13 Train from Mainz

I think this part is very screwed up right now. As bigtyke points out Cologne-Mainz by boat is absurd. The way the boat schedule is, you can't even make it to Koblenz in one day, and you're talking about 16 hours stuck on a boat - no chance to actually visit any of the old-world towns and castles.

On Day 11, there are direct trains from A'dam to Cologne that take less than 3 hours; do a stopover there of 6 hours or so, then continue on to the heart of the Rhine Valley (between Koblenz and Bingen) to one of the smaller villages for a 2-night stay. Boppard or St. Goar would be convenient.

On Day 12, take a cruise. First, hop on a train to Bingen, the southern end of the best scenery (takes 23 min. from St. Goar, 35 min. from Boppard.) then board a K-D boat north. Stop for an hour or two in Bacharach and/or Oberwesel for a look around. In Oberwesel you can take a walk atop the old town wall from tower to tower:
http://oberwesel.welterbe-mittelrhei...dweg_karte.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...chsenturm1.jpg
http://s1.germany.travel/media/conte...T_1024x768.jpg

Then get off the boat in St. Goar. You will have had a 1.5 hours of cruise time by this point through the best section. Take a tour of Rheinfels Castle in St. Goar at your own pace (no guided tour.)

http://www.st-goar.de/17-1-rheinfels-castle.html

Take the train to Boppard and enjoy the late afternoon and evening there. (Return later to St. Goar if that's where your room is.) Boppard has a cool chairlift ride, a nice river promenade, and lots of places to enjoy a meal and some wine as well as many fine old half-timbered buildings.

http://www.holidaycheck.com/data/url...1157457092.jpg

You can head to Munich from either St. Goar or Boppard. These towns are not far from Mainz and add relatively little time to your train ride to Munich.

PalenQ

Towns on the Rhine like Bingen, Boppard, St Goar, etc are nice but I would suggest most folks will love Cochem, on the much prettier IMO Mosel and use that as a base to day trip to the Rhine - Koblenz being but 20 minutes by train from Cochem.

I've taken over 1,000 folks on tours thru the Rhine and Mosel and though they liked the Rhine nearly all preferred Cochem - the Rhine is loud - a main railway goes along the western bank and a sideline railway goes along the eastern bank plus two busy roads hug the river - Cochem is much more quiet and IMO much more scenic - more the dream picture-postcard town many dream about staying in but rarely do.

The Mosel at Cochem is tranquil - no loud highways or trains interrupting its solace.

I suggest Cochem as the base most folks will love more than a Rhine town - if you have time do both bases but if only for a few days Cochem IMO will an even nicer base.

Cochem the dream town:

https://www.google.com/search?q=coch...w=1455&bih=978

Russ

"...the Rhine is loud..."

Cochem is very nice as well and could be a good choice for a short stay. Most accommodations are located such that trains that serve Cochem are not a problem.

But it is an overgeneralization to say that the whole Rhine is loud, and while there are good reasons to choose Cochem, I certainly don't think that noise is a reason to avoid the Rhine. If you are careful about the location of your inn or hotel, you should do alright. Perhaps PalenQ was not so careful. In several Rhine towns, including Boppard, the rails are set back well from most of the old town area inns. And staying on the Rhine means quick access to several other interesting old-world towns as well.

In Bacharach, one has to be especially careful when choosing accommodations. You can read numerous comments on Tripadvisor about the noise levels in some inns and hotels there, some of which line up within a few yards of the tracks. Operators use triple-paned glass windows to help ameliorate the noise, probably with limited results:

http://www.rhein-zeitung.de/cms_medi..._bacharach.jpg

But even in Bacharach you can locate very quiet spots, like most accommodations in the Steeger Tal, a tiny valley with several wineries that shoots off perpendicular to the town's main drag and where savvy travelers book rooms. Here's a photo of the Steeger Tal, with an arrow identifying a Pension by the same name; no trains here, and it's an easy stroll into the center of town:

http://aff.bstatic.com/images/hotel/org/658/658311.jpg

ThomasH

Thank you everyone for your advice especially the rail pass! Further research on that matter showed p2p tickets would save a substantial amount. Everyone's advice has given me a lot to consider and a lot of reading to add to my list.

Thank you again Will go through and update soon once I have a bit of time.

PalenQ

, I certainly don't think that noise is a reason to avoid the Rhine.>

It's not just noise but the Rhine is just not nearly as dreamy as the Mosel and does lack the tranquility of the Mosel. I mainly base this on the thousand folks I took to both areas and nearly all preferred the quietness and tranquility and awesome beauty of the Mosel.

Germans call the Mosel the Mother Mosel - a slow winding river with southward facing slopes carpeted in vineyards - they call the Rhine the Father Rhine - a fast slowing river with tons of freight traffic, etc (which I personally find more fascinating but others did not) and they found the Rhine not all that scenic - it is nice but not the awesome scenic picture of the Mosel.

But not to say that Rhine towns Russ mentions are not great bases - but even for the Rhine Cochem is just a short drive or train ride away. If you want to explore both river valleys then one base is better to me than two - packing, etc takes time - a half day usually to relocate, etc.

But really you cannot go wrong - a Boppard, St Goar or Bingen will be much more dreamy than a Munich, Berlin, etc - picture postcard towns with cozy family-run hotels and guesthouses, etc. I would avoid Rudesheim as it is tour bus depot for the area and tons of bus groups stay there - takes away the German aspect somewhat.