The hotel called one king west in Toronto

I have stayed at One King West and can confirm that the base of the Hotel is the Bank constructed as part of the rebuild in the early 20th century... only the basement vault and lobby remain for hotel guests access... the new hotel is ultra-modern and offers short and long term rentals with great views... Your aunts apartment and living quarters are long gone... except for a wander through the lobby, and the possibility of a molecule of 1928 air being left to share, nothing remains of the old... It is a great place to stay and if you believe in energy, go for it!

I should mention that there are also residences in the old building base that are converted from the bank offices... the additional floors were removed..

It was the habit of banks in the UK (or at least in Scotland where my personal experience took place) to have residences for the bank's chief officer above the 'shop' so to speak.

As a small child in the early 1920's, my Mum visited Great Uncle Harry in a small town in Scotland and stayed with the family in his apartment above his office in the bank. I would think that the arrangement might have been a bit like the minister and the manse, an economic one. If small towns were to lure people of learning, like pastors and bank officials, they had to provide housing.

But I don't know whether this would likely have been the case in the Toronto of the 20's...it is possible that they retained some sort of accomodation for visiting employees.

But it seems more likely that your family simply used the address of their bank (which would have certainly had UK connections) as a registration for mail and so forth in their new life? Downtown Toronto was already pretty much built up in those days with streetcars and so forth as my copies of old photography books suggests.

BAK is a bit of a history buff, maybe he will know about this and chime in?

I think that LJ's suggestion that the Dominion Bank building was a forwarding address is the most probable. This was the headquarters of a large national bank and it is likely that the building was filled with the bank offices. Although I wasn't around in the 1920s, I did grow up in Toronto a few decades later and I have no recollection of there being any residences or apartment buildings in the downtown business area.

As a suggestion, you might check a Toronto City Directory for that era. I believe they can be found on-line.

Enjoy your visit.

I don't know if it will be any help to you but here's the website for the City of Toronto archives. Maybe you can find out more about the building here.

http://www.toronto.ca/archives/

Bank staff did live above quarters in small branches in residential neighbourhoods years ago but, as noted by laverendrye, I doubt that anyone lived upstairs from that branch.

Good suggestion to search the city directories - I've traced a lot of my family using them - if not online, they're on the shelves at the reference library on Yonge Street, a block north of Bloor. You can search by name and by address. http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca - you need a library card to search online.

Hi
Thank you all for your answers; it makes sense that my Great uncle collected money from my Greatx2 Aunt’s bank. Looking at the ships paperwork my uncle arrived first, and around eight weeks later his wife and two niece’s (my mum and aunt) arrived and the address on their paper work was “45 Anne street Youge street Toronto” We believe the aunt in Canada paid their fare over from Scotland,after the children's parents died , so that would make sense .I had not thought of that!
I will check out all the links and, try and have a look at Toronto City directory .we are still planning a trip next spring or summer to Canada so by then I may of pinned down a couple of sites to visit.
My mum always spoke of Canada and told tales of the bears coming to the cabin they lived in, we as a family remember her speaking of a place called Silverthorne.
Would Canada in the 1920’s/1930’s still had bears roaming around or was that maybe, just a tall tale!! We all thought it was but would never say that to her.
Anyway thank you all so much .we may still stay at the one west hotel as it looks like a nice hotel. Is it a good place to stay when you want to visit Toronto?
Thank you Liz

Very nice hotel... good location... they also have a classic car service that will drop you off in downtown... we took it to dinner...

I think the Anne Street you refered to no longer exists. There is an Ann Street in Port Credit/Mississauga, a sort of distant suburb of Toronto, but it is no where near Yonge Street (you will want to note that spelling if you are seeking out old directories).

Silverthorne is a pretty common name...it was the name of my doctor here in TO when I was a little kid in the 50's.

As to the bears story...if you went far enough north you would have seen bears, but not in downtown TO! However, it was very common for families, my own included, in those days to take the train to Muskoka, cottage country, and bears would have been part of the scenery for sure. Maybe Silverthorne was a lodge or cottage they rented and saw bears?

Possible there was an area of Toronto called Silverthorne years ago - I'm on the fourth floor of the ref library right now and could look up names if gleaner is reading this. I'll surf around and check back before giving up this computer.

Well, I did it anyway - researched that is:

Silverthorn was a suburban village: a suburb 5 miles northwest of Toronto City Hall, around, I think, present day St. Clair and Dupont/Keele areas or maybe further north to Eglinton.

45 Ann Street, was off Yonge on the east side, one block south of Carlton which makes it Granby Street, I think - in the city directories it was Ann, on the fire maps, it was Anne. I wonder why they changed it - most streets in the area are the same names todays.

The computer at the library signed me off...so to continue:

In 1921, William J. Merchant lived at 45 Ann St., no occupation.

1922 - Emerson H. Berlett, also no occupation.

1923 - William Gearing, he was a checker at Massey-Harris.

In 1924, Mrs. Jane Hazell lived there.

1925 till 1927 - Frank C. Weaver is the occupant, he was first listed as a pianist, then an elevator operator at Eaton's (a department store).

1928 - 1929 - Mrs. Annie Roberts, widow of Joseph

Then I jumped to 1934 - no 45 Ann Street but numbers 37 to 47 are listed as a rooming house.

Sally: you are a super -sleuth...I had no idea all this was a matter of public record...how very fascinating: I hope this will be of some assistance to gleaner...still hard to believe there were bears that far into the city: I think that may be a tall tale!

Wow!!! Sally... great job! I'm glad no one knows who I am... Sally might publish my dirty laundry... There have been some nights exiting the Pubs in Toronto that I swear I've seen Bears.... I may have even slept with a few in my younger days... nuff said (Sally might uncover my Cubs)

The city directories start around 1840s - I've spent hours finding out where generations of my father's family lived from 1860 on; looked up a couple of addresses today on my mother's side.

I don't believe the bear story either except in garyt22's case, of course. That has the ring of truth to it!

Took a walk after the ref library to 45 Granby Street, formerly Ann, and I would say it is the same house gleaner's mother stayed in, tarted up but the bricks to me look old.

Now I hope gleaner has a look at this thread again - I'd like to know if Annie Roberts is the Aunt who paid for the family's passage to Canada.

Sally: there are times when Fodor's is SO unsatisfying...like now...I really do hope Gleaner comes back but some never do (sigh...)but the rest of us have enjoyed the ride and sharing your research expertise has given me ideas!

Wow and thank you everyone
I am amazed at the amount of information that Sally came up with, but sadly we at present cannot place an Annie or a Joseph Roberts.
We are now going to have a look at my great uncles family and see if he had any Annie’s or Joseph’s. Fingers crossed.
However it is great to know that the house could still be there and a must to visit when we come to Canada.(and get plenty of photos )
We always thought the bears may have been a tall story, my dad was great at telling them, so mum must of got in on the act too.
Mind you my Great uncle was an engineer and reportedly worked on a logging camp at some stage so maybe that was up north (I just want to believe my mum’s story really) although I liked Gary’s theory .
So at present it is still a mystery as to their movements in Canada, I know that my mum travel on the SS Letitia in August 1928 and they returned to Scotland abroad the SS Athenia in June 1933 as my great Aunt Jessie was not well and missed her home land.
However my Great Aunt Agnes Wilson Sim (Sim was her maiden name) stayed in Canada and the family lost contact with her over the years, so that was the aunt I was expecting to find living at Ann street and it was Agnes that paid my mum and her sister fare after their parents died.
So I will carry on searching for my great uncles family to see if I can find Annie or Joseph. If I do find the link, I will let you know.
Another question, how easy is it to find 45 Granby Street, formerly Ann, as we will be hiring a car and really would love to see the area, I expect we will be staying in Toronto, probably the one king west hotel.
Thanks Liz

Granby street is an easy walk from your hotel, right in the downtown core, near the old Maple Leaf Gardens.
Good luck!

thanks for that LJ we are now looking at the best time to travel.i can hardly wait.spent the last hour looking for Annie or joseph without luck ,even managed to lose Allen Wilson ,my uncle ,yes i am going to need luck
thanks liz

To search the directories, one can look under the address or the surname so I'll have a look for Allen Wilson later today..I should have checked 45 Ann in 1929 the other day. And the suburbs, such as Silverthorn, are listed separately.

What was Aunt Jessie's surname - and her husband's first name - they're likely in the directories, too.

As LJ says, 45 Granby is an easy walk from One King right up Yonge or 3 stops on the subway to College Station and then walk one block south - I wouldn't bother taking a car to that street; it's narrow and somewhat congested; it has a pedestrian-only entrance from Yonge Street, beside #431 Yonge.

Gleaner: where were your family from originally? that spelling of Allen is a family name in my past too, though as a surname...Allen was a very common name in Aberdeen, Scotland. That part of Toronto (Ann/Granby) was populated by a lot of working-class Scottish Presbyterians in the early days...it is very close to the WCTU (Women's Christian Temperance Union) headquarters, a project of Scots and stricter Methodists back in the early part of last century. If you know your relatives church affiliations, it can give you another place to look.

Hi sally and LJ,
I can not tell you how grateful I am for all your help, I have managed to go back eight generations of my family on my mum’s side, so far all of them are Scottish, but the Canada bit had stumped me, I was thrilled when I found them on the outgoing passage list, the first one I found was my great uncle on the SS Transylvania. And the address for him was the bank.
Then I found his wife great aunt Jessie, their son and my mum and her sister on the SS Lettitia.and they had 45 Ann street Youge street Toronto as their arrival address
They sailed from Glasgow; however, my mum was born in a small coal-mining village called Leslie near Dunfermline in Fifeshire Scotland, her uncle Allen was a Colliery Engineer and his son was a Painter.
LJ, I have no idea what church they used, I do know my Great Aunt always went to church and my Aunt Jessie went to Kirk every Sunday, unlike my mum (I think it was a Methodist church, aunt Jessie was married in) My uncle Chic (Jessie’s husband used to love a wee dram whiskey but we were told never to tell aunt Jessie)
Well their names
Allen Wilson, Mrs Jessie Wilson, their adopted son was 18years old and called Ernest Wilson. They adopted him when he was a small child around 5 or 6 I believe
My aunt Jessie was, Jessie Ferrier Sim Black aged 8
And my mum was, Margaret Watson Black aged 4

The great aunt that was already out in Canada was called Agnes Wilson Sim. (Maiden name)
We know she was in Canada in 1922 as she never met my mum until she went to Canada and when they were going to be returning home she had wanted to adopted my mum and aunt so they could stay in Canada, but her older sister great aunt Jessie would not allow it and took them back to Scotland and brought them up as her own.
We know Agnes was married by 1928 and we think to a Canadian, so we have no married name for her. There was some sort of family fall out after they returned from Canada and the family sadly lost touch with Agnes
Well I have printed out the directions to get to 45 Granby. I can hardly wait to see what the house looks like (silly I know)
Are there any other suggestions of places not miss while we are in Toronto, we are considering Toronto and the Niagara falls now, are the falls worth a visit? as we will be so close.
Well thank you all again
Liz

Liz: Best of luck with that family tree!

Take some time out from the search to go to Niagara Falls. Whenever we have guests from Scotland (Aberdeen, in my family's case), we do the falls trip and they love it and so do I...and this must be my 100th time!

And though I hear you about that not-churchy thing, do spend a moment checking out the records of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. I know you said 'Methodist', but you used the word Kirk and that is very Presb vocab.The Methodists in Canada combined with one branch of the Presbyterians to form the United Church of Canada in 1928, and records are well-archived.

Except for the rare few, most of the Scots who came to Canada in those days passed through the portals of the Presbyterian church especially when it came time to get married or buried. You may be able to track them down yet.

Best of luck!

Hi LJ
Well we will be going to the falls for sure now.
And thank you for the suggestion of checking out the records of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. I will do that, have you any idea how I can access there archives on line.
My mums family always referred to the church as a kirk, I had not realized the word kirk was related Presbyterian church, I always just thought it was a Scottish word, it is simply amazing how much I have learnt since I began this research .We grew up in Yorkshire and as a child I used to love visiting Scotland and Ireland (my dad’s family) as they all had such lovely accents. my father was a Catholic so my mum converted which is why I have no real knowledge of which church the family would have been apart off.
I should have paid more attention when she was alive and used to tell us her stories of growing up in Canada
Is there a good time to visit Niagara falls and Toronto we are edging towards September next year, and would you advise driving? I saw somewhere that there was a train that goes there?
Thanks again Liz

I was reading gleaner's new posting with the names at the ref library after I looked for Allen Wilson but lost the piece of paper with my password for Fodor's somewhere so had to wait till I got home to reply.

(Speaking of not being able to sign on to Fodors without the password, which isn't a word, I wish we had an easy-to-remember password for this site for when we're not home.)

I quickly looked for Agnes Sim but there wasn't one Agnes Sim or Agnes Wilson Sim from 1922 to 1927; there were lots of Ernest Wilson's but I didn't compare the addresses as this annoying woman was hanging around trying to do her research and taking my books! I saw her putting them back on the shelves and POINTED to the sign that said not to reshelve them...no wonder they're out of order sometimes. I wanted to avoid rush hour on the subway, too.

But I can reply now with what I did find and while eating a big PB sandwich with a drink...non-alcoholic.

In 1930 and 1931, the residents of 45 Ann Street were Samuel Balsom and Mrs. Margaret Barry.

In 1929, there were 2 AllAns and one AllEn but Allen was a student who lived with his family - the father was named John.

One Allan was an employee of Firtsbrook Bros (I think that might really have been Firstbook - Firtsbrook sounds wrong but it was definitely spelled like that) who boarded at 139 First Avenue - two women owned or ran that boarding house - their surnames were Donahue and Kelly.

The other Allan was a steelworker who lived at 623 Ontario Street, the owner/renter listed for that address was named Blaney.

In 1930, there were 4 Allan Wilsons listed - none spelled their name with an 'e' but that might have been the person compiling the directory. One was a carpenter who was in the directories for several years at the same address, 57 Warren Cres., one a student, the same one noted above; one Allan was an assistant shipper at a wallpaper company and one an employee I suspect was related to the assistant shipper at the same company but with different addresses which I didn't write down but one lived on Lascelles Blvd.

In 1931, there were still 4 Allans - one a steelworker, so likely the same person from 1929, worked at Dominion Bridge Company and lived at 944 King St. West with Alec Burns.

(If there was a male adult in the residence, the women's names were not noted - the males even made it once they were dead as the woman would be Mrs. J. Smith (widow of John).)

Allan the student is still listed as are Allan the carpenter and Allan the shipper.

I don't know why but there are only 3 volumes for 1932 - each year sometimes has as many as 10 volumes, perhaps something to do with the depression - anyway, there were 2 Allans - one a baggageman for the CNR (Canadian National Railway) who roomed at 351 Crawford Street.

The second AllEn, with an E, was a stationary (or is it stationery) engineer with Dominion Bridge and lived at 186 Garden Avenue in Parkdale - I have a cousin who lives on that street.

Because of the lack of volumes, I was unable to check who owned the homes these 2 Allans lived in.

In 1933, there was an Al - who was a driver for something called The Suititorium - my eyes are bad with small print but it was something like that - he roomed at 20 Charles West - that house was owned by Ed Doer.

Allan from Dominion Bridge was still listed but with an A instead of an E and lived at 68 Van Horne which was owned by Edgar Holmes.

The carpenter and the student were still listed.

The last AllEn was an employee at Dunlop Rubber Company and roomed at 31 Connaught Avenue (people named Wolstenholme and Hartley were the owners).

I know you said they returned to Scotland in 1933, but these directories were compiled a year or so ahead so I checked 1934 and there were was one Allan who was a music teacher and Allen who still worked at Dunlop but it was called Dunlop Tire now and he still roomed at 31 Connaught Avenue.

Did Ernest return to Scotland, too? He would have been in his 20s then and possibly married.

31 Connaught, the house itself is possibly still there running south from Queen Street East, just east of Greenwood Avenue and across from the Ashbridge House; the Connaught Barns where the TTC keeps streetcars is the other side of the street.

Perhaps if that is your Allen, they may have rented one of the floors for the family.

I think 'lived' meant you lived on your own, 'boarded' included meals and 'rooms' meant you rented a room or rooms but fended for yourself regarding meals. But I could be entirely WRONG about that and Allen with an 'e'.

While I had the volumes out, I checked my father's family and found them living with relatives - so that was news to me - I knew they lost their home in the depression but didn't know they'd bunked in with relatives for a time - it must have been crowded. I need to go and have a look at that house.

Ontario marriage records are available at the Ontario Archives and at the North York Main Library which has Canadian genealogy on the top floor. The Archives has a filmed copy of the marriage certificate with signatures, the location, the witnesses, the Minister/Priest and so on; the NL library branch has the records on fiche, so you get the number from the fiche when you find the one you want and then have to go to the Archives to see a copy of the certificate. In this case, we'd be searching for Agnes Sim so you find her listing but then need to take that number to the Archives and find the record which will then tell you who she married. The marriage records are available up to 1927 - they add a year each year so if she married in 1928, that record won't be public till next year. http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/english/archival-records/interloan/v-myear.aspx

Sounds complicated but it isn't and much easier than trying to find church records, I know from experience.

The Archives of Ontario used to be conveniently located downtown but moved this past May WAY UP to York University so not so easy to get to - in my case, anyway. I hate going north of Eglinton Avenue...which means nothing to gleaner, of course.

Agree that you must see Niagara Falls and September is a good time. Yes, there's a train, and bus tours but an easy drive - my son takes us there all the time for a drive.

I hope all this helps....any names or occupations mean anything?

TTT

hi sally
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you, however I have been in Scotland visiting my cousin Anne and ploughing our way through old photos belonging to her mum and her grandmother (my Aunt Jessie).
Well we found a wedding photo of Agnes we believe.
It was taken in a studio in Canada around the mid to late 1920’s we think, Agnes was born in 1891 so that would make her in her mid twenties. Of course there was nothing written on the back so no clues but we can not think of anyone else it could be, but we still do not have a married name which we were hoping for.

On to Allen we also found a photo of him with his Aunt in Toronto taken in 1929, we had not even been aware that Allen had an Aunt in Toronto until now her name was Bearnice Mores (not my spelling I would of thought most likely Bernice) this was written on the back of the photo, this was not a studio photo so someone had a camera, but sadly we could not find any other Canadian photos.

While we were chatting we all agreed that we had been told the Uncle Allen served his engineering apprenticeship on the building of the Fourth Rail Bridge that still spans the Firth of Fourth in Scotland linking Edinburgh to fife were my mums family come from originally. Allen’s family are originally from the Scottish borders place called Kelso.

In fact my mum always told me that Allen and his dad built the fourth Rail Bridge, she failed to mention that at its peak, the workforce constructing the bridge reached a total of 4600 so they did have a little help.

Now this brings me on to the Allen that you found, as you wrote.

“In 1931, there were still 4 Allans - one a steelworker, so likely the same person from 1929, worked at Dominion Bridge Company and lived at 944 King St. West with Alec Burns.”
The second AllEn, with an E, was a stationary (or is it stationery) engineer with Dominion Bridge and lived at 186 Garden Avenue in Parkdale - I have a cousin who lives on that street.

Could this be my Allen?? We were all very excited at this link bearing in mind that the Fourth Rail Bridge was the world's first major steel bridge. So working for a steel company in Canada could fit in the jigsaw so all your incredible hard work may off paid off, I have contacted the Fourth Rail Bridge historical society to try and get more details on Allen as the Scottish were great at keeping records I am hoping to find out what sort of engineer he trained as. Or if in deed you did specialize in the late 1800’s when you did engineering.

Now on to Ernest, yes Ernest did return to Scotland as I met him when I was a child and he was quite a character he passed on many years ago his wife’s name was Chrissie and she lived to a grand old age I was very fond of her, she had a lot to put up with I am sure Ernest was not the easiest husband to have. Even thou we children always thought he was great fun to be with.
We did some research on Sunday and we did come across Ernest
We found Ernest returning to Scotland in late 1934 alone, as the rest off the family had left the previous year .He was Deported (every family has to have one, we got Ernest) we are assuming he found it hard to carry on with the depression and no real family support so maybe he was shipped home.

While we were looking through the photos we came across Ernest and Chrissies wedding photo, and it seems that Chrissies maiden name was Roberts .we then went on to search for their wedding, or Chrissies birth in Scotland but we drew a blank so we tried to find Chrissie’s birth using Mrs. Annie Roberts, widow of Joseph (the same people you found living at Ann Street) as her parents but still we drew a blank, so was Aunt Chrissie, a Canadian. I have just ordered a death certificate of a Christine Wilson with the hope it is the right person (we were not able to view it on line) I am interested in whom her parents are.
So maybe the
1928 - 1929 45 Ann Street - Mrs. Annie Roberts, widow of Joseph
May have had a connection.

So we are now trying to contact Ernest and Chrissies grandchildren, they only had one daughter who passed away many years ago and they have two grandchildren, Steven lives and works in Dubai and Christine immigrated with her family to New Zealand many years ago. We hope they can tell us whether their gran was Scottish or Canadian.

Sally ,
I do not know how to thank you for all your detective work, I am so grateful to you for all your help and my whole family are amazed at how much you have found out, I would off replied at the weekend, but the time just ran away with us and I did not have had my log in details with me as I never thought that far ahead .I have now written my log in details down in my dairy so I will always have them to hand in the future
Well my trip to Canada may be sooner rather than later as my sister is very keen on coming now, I think she is getting the bug, this family tree thing is addictive, as my husband can not get time off work until next year. My sister and I are looking at the end of this month; we are hoping it will not be to cold for Niagara Falls and we can hardly wait now, I have left her to find flights and then we can get accommodation sorted once I have confirmed time of from my work,hope my boss is in a good mood . so we are keeping everything crossed.
So thank you again
Liz

You're most welcome.

I've made trips to London where I spent the whole week tracing family in the now-closed Family History Centre, wandering through graveyards, going to public libraries or travelling around England meeting new relatives so know how you and your sister feel about clues to family.

It shouldn't be cold - September is often a warm month...it's started out well.

Perhaps we can meet - I could show you Granby Street, at least, not that it's hard to find. And I could introduce you to the city directories at the reference library if you care to see them. I'm going to be doing some research for an elderly friend, too, and will possibly need to go to the new Archives of Ontario...you need to find out who Agnes married but, if you have a Mormon church near you, you maybe able to find out through their records - they have an amazing amount of information and anyone is able to search at their libraries - I spent many Saturday mornings at Mormon libraries. So check if they have Ontario records.

www.canada411.ca - phone listings for Canada - there are several Mores in Toronto.

Cheers

Hi sally

That is a great idea my sister and I would love to meet up and have a coffee and it is a lovely offer to show us Granby street and introduce us to the city’s directories at the reference library.

if I can get the time off work we have decided to stay at the one king west hotel while we are in Toronto ,even if our mum never went there it sounds like a nice hotel and central.we are becoming really excited.the last time I went searching I ended up in Broughty Ferry Dundee Scotland with my husband and spent many hours wandering around old burial grounds ,we found out loads from that trip .and discovered how lovely that part of Scotland is .

I have spent many afternoons going through the Mormon church’s records as you can do a lot on line now

www.familysearch.org

well I have left my Cousin Anne going through any photos or paperwork we never managed to work or way through.

it is so easy to become distracted by photos you find especially the awful ones of when you were only a small child and you mum made you were that horrible dress,so we had many giggles over the weekend .

so maybe she will come up with something about Agnes

Anyway I will have to go as I have managed to do nothing at all to day ,except for the tree ,looking forward to having a coffee soon and thanks again

Liz

If you're here on the 26th, there's a GTG downtown - walkable from One King West.

familysearch is okay but it's riddled with errors in the information submitted by patrons.

Due to taking the wrong bus today, I ended up at the Ontario Archives - checked for a marriage for Agnes Sim from 1923 to 1927 (which is the latest year available) but she wasn't married in those years. So either before 1923 or 1928 which information won't be released till next year - I may be up near the library which has the index fiche (but not the actual registrations) this weekend and if I have time will check earlier years.

gleaner

I had followed the early part of this thread until a few days ago and I am intrigued by the process you and SallyCanuck have worked through. I was in downtown Toronto today for family business and as I drove down Yonge Street I passed One King West and immediately thought of you and your quest. The building looks quite majestic and I am sure you will enjoy your time there.

I will be bold and re-iterate SallyCanuck's invitation for September 26. If you happen to be in Toronto at that time, you and your sister would be very welcome to join the group.

SallyCanuck, what an amazing researcher you are. Awesome job!

tC

hi sally
the get together sounds fun ,i should find out today when i go into work if i am able to have the time of ,my boss is back today and my sister is just waiting to get everything booked .
thanks Sally for checking Agnes marriage,i know what you mean about the errors i have in the past gone off on a complete wild goose chase ,the fishing folk of Broughty ferry inter marry and all it took was a miss spelling and i put me back ages
liz

I love genealogy...if only I could make a living at it. AND find all my mystery family hiding out in Leicestershire and area.

944 King St. West still exists.

Hi sally
just arrived in from work with the bad news that i am unable to have the dates off that i requested so it looks like the trip is on hold for a while ,so i will miss the get together .I can not tell you how disappointed we are.
we have already booked a holiday for late February in the sunshine .we will be ready for some sunshine by then after a dreary British winter .
So it will be either spring or summer next year before we can get over to Toronto .I think hubby is a little pleased with himself as it was his air miles my sister and I were going to use and also leave him at home with only the dog for company .
So your family are from Leicestershire ,my sister-in-law was born and grew up in a small village about 30 minutes drive outside Leicester,and my brother Richard is a lecturer at De Montfort university in the center of Leicester.They now live close to Northampton as Marie (sister-in-law)works at Northampton university another lecturer.
we drove up to visit them this weekend , a beautiful part of the country ,with its pretty little stone villages .
it was my birthday on Saturday and i received a new camera and a couple of memory cards to go with it ,from my two brother's ready for the trip to Canada.I take it they want picture's as well !

I was thrilled to see that 944 King St West still exists
I had a look at 944 King St.West, on goggle maps ,it is a large building, would it of been made up of apartments in the 1930's?and what is it used for today?well i have noted that one down for a visit as well .i can hardly wait for this trip .
Liz

Oh too bad you can't come - I was looking forward to your visit! And Happy belated birthday.

My mother's birth mother was born in Tilton on the Hill in 1884 - to make a long, long story short, birth mother died in London, Ontario 13 days after giving birth to my mother - her husband placed all 3 of his Canadian children for adoption and went back to England - he was born in Greenwich. What village is your sister-in-law from...I feel I know every village in the area - and in Rutland, too.

Mother was in England only once with me - we spent a day in Leicester (where the birth mother married for the first time and where her siblings lived and died). I now know lots of my English cousins and family who ended up here in Ontario, too, on the Grandfather's side. But still looking for more - one in particular at the moment who doesn't know that his Grandfather was actually raised by his Aunt, not his birth mother, and that birth mother was my mother's mother making them half-siblings, but he isn't in the phone directory at www.bt.co.uk so that's a roadblock to telling him this thrilling news...well, thrilling to me, anyway.

I've been to Leicester several times, once staying several days to search for family at the LRFHS - one time a newly-found cousin drove me around and I took photos of every house family had lived in and then she dropped me at the train station for the trip back to London. Only another person interested in family history would understand anyone doing that.

Now back to 944 King West - that building is called the Palace Arms so likely a bar in there with rooms to rent upstairs. Years ago, you could only serve liquor or beer if the establishment was part of a hotel so rooms would be let upstairs - I suspect most were rather downmarket and still are now but the sign is still up over the door so I think the Palace Arms is still doing it - it seems single men live in these places. Attached to the "Palace" are 3 story houses - there are 4 them - an old man was standing in the doorway of 946 today - I went past on the streetcar again - I expect it was nicer in the 1920s but it has been slightly tarted-up in the past few years as that area has become gentrified but, as I said, I doubt the condo owners go there for a drink. (I hate to say it but it's the kind of place one of my sons would think was worth a visit...he goes to the worst places. I should ask him but if he hasn't been there it might give him the idea to do so.)

So I wrote the above and then found this on the internet - "fine venue for dining, entertainment and lodging" at the Palace Arms?? Hummmm, I'll reserve judgment on that comment. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9326442@N08/sets/72157601324687751/ - lots of photos though. But whoever wrote the description spelled Strachan wrong so can we trust him/her? Photo 14.3 shows the houses.

Massey-Harris, farm implements and John Inglis, appliances and likely other products, had factories in the area but not any longer, the Palace Arms probably had the workers from the factories as clients.

The area has newer townhomes and condos as far as the eye can see. Toronto has started naming every single area it seems and that one is called Garrison Creek on the street signs - Garrison Creek http://www.ontariotrails.on.ca/trails-a-z/garrison-creek/ has long been buried in pipes underground though. A couple of blocks east, the street signs say Fashion District - practically across the street to the south of the Palace Arms, it's Liberty Village which is a very hip place to live.

Didn't Allen live at 186 Garden Avenue, too? Maybe you can find it?

Hi sally
my sister-in -law Marie ,was born in Houghton on the hill ,apparently not to far from were your grandmother was born ,She spent her teenage years in Rothwell and they now live in Weldon Northampton .
I smiled about you taking the photo's of the house's your family had lived in.
i know just what you mean ,i am sure the girls i work with think i am a little mad when i told them i was planning a trip to Canada to try and trace some of my mums journey to Canada and visit the places that she had lived .Having said that, two of them have recently started researching there own trees ,i have warned them it is highly addicted .

It is great that you were able to meet up with your cousins in the UK.and i really hope you make contact with the missing cousin and give him the good news .
Families are just so complicated my mum discovered on her return from Canada that her dad was still alive(she had been told that she and Jessie were orphans ) and an added bonus was she also had an older brother who had stayed with his dad and a younger baby brother from her dad's second marriage .Had she stayed in Canada she may never of known about her brothers.
Thanks for the link to The Palace arms ,it looks like a interesting building ,the little round tower is very cute, the house's are very much what i had pictured of old Canada ,isn't that silly!(i have been watching to many old Canadian T.V. . shows)
However i think i will stick to the One King West Hotel for my stay,even if the Palace Arms offers a " fine venue for dining, entertainment and lodging"

bye for now Liz

Checked with my son today - I suspected he'd know - the Palace Arms hasn't had a bar in it for at least 20 years - when he tried to go there it was already closed but his father did drink there when he was a student working at a summer job. So it's just residences now.

Well Sally
we will just have to find somewhere else for a coffee.

I am trying to picture my great Uncle Allen living there ,from what i have heard he was a very self-righteous and very Victorian,and was tee total all his life so i expect he never used the bar ,if in deed it had a bar in the 1930's.

I was chatting to Marie (sister in law)and she suggested the links below may help with your search for the phone number you were looking for ,as not everyone has a B.T. number ,Virgin media is now one of our largest telephone and Internet providers here in the U.K. ,only if you live in a cable area which Leicester is .my phone number is not in the B.T. directory as we are with virgin media cable company.


http://www.192.com/?gkw=find+telephone

http://www.192.com/?gkw=find+telephone

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080914051746AA2ihwZ

good luck with that and it goes without saying if i can be any help .
As soon as i get soon dates confirmed for our visit to Toronto , i will get back with more question no doubt.
Liz

Hi gleaner - thanks, I had checked 192.com earlier - they want money in order to show more than names - there are several men with the name or similar but 192.com gives an age range so I suspect he's the fellow in his 50s.. I may have to pay to join it. Due to my lack of gainful employment, I've been trying not to buy anything I don't really need. But it is tempting so I will continue to think about it.

There are dozens of nice coffee shops we can go to once you're here.

I'm researching for an elderly man who isn't well and wants to know what became of his father so I've joined Ancestry...not having a lot of luck finding his father but thought I'd look up Agnes Wilson Sim.

Agnes Wilson Sim, age 34 of Leslie, Scotland, was the daughter of Richard Sim of 34 Kenmar Terrace in a town I can't make out. Agnes' occupation is noted as domestic; she travelled on the Montrose, departing August 7 from Greenock, arriving in Montreal on the 14th of August 1926 but her final destination was Chicago.

I can't find her on the US 1930 census ... the information about the ship is from border crossing lists from Canada to the US but it is the ship's manifest so hard to know if she travelled briefly to Chicago and then returned to Toronto in 1933 where she stayed at 944 King West for one week before her death at St. Michael's Hospital from (hard to read) periodontis (TB) and pulmonary tuberculosis.

Agnes Sim's death is reported in the Ontario records, #004666. She died 23 June after being cared for by a doctor for 10 days. There was an autopsy.

The death certificate says Agnes was born October 10, 1893 in Scotland, daughter of Richard and Jessie (nee Fairer).

There is a check mark beside: "In Canada (if an immigrant)"...so not sure what that means - I didn't think people from the British Isles were immigrants at that time. Maybe it means she was an immigrant from the US?

Her occupation is given as "housewife domestic" but the form says she was single. The informant was Jack Barnes of 944 King West who was her brother-in-law. So was Jack married to Agnes' sister?

Agnes is buried in Prospect Cemetery.

Just reading over the thread - Jessie went back and wasn't married to Jack Barnes, it would appear; Agnes was single and died in June 1933 and it sure sounds like the correct Agnes. And there's a wedding photo you think is Agnes.

Oh boy - we've got ourselves a mystery....although a lot of family lore turns out to be wrong.

I've got a cousin who believes things about my Dad's family that no amount of information in black and white will make her change her mind.

ttt

hi morningglory47
i could not believe my eyes this morning when i saw your reply ,i had tried to find Agnes marriage and her passage out to Canada ,i can not believe we missed her,But we did ,i agree that you have found the right Agnes as her parents (my great grandparents)were indeed Richard Sim and Janet(Jessie) Ferrier,they lived in Kenmore Terrace in Buckhaven Fife Scotland at the time that Agnes would of been traveling out to Canada .In fact my great aunt Jessie had Kenmore terrace down as her departing address too.
As to the wedding photo there were two couples on the picture the bride and groom and the witness's we assumed ,now i am thinking we were we way off the mark and is it a case of always the bridesmaid and never the bride,poor Agnes!!
Looking at the information i have in front of me,i see she died only 13 days after her sister Jessie and brother in law Allen and of course her little nieces sailed home to Scotland ,they arrived home on the 18th June 1933,so my Great Aunt Jessie lost at least two sister's to T.B. as my Grandmother also died of T.B in 1925.
So who is the other sister ,we now have Flora ,Jane and Elizabeth left and unaccounted for,the mystery deepens ,So who was married to Jack Barnes???
I am also a member of Ancestry..,however i only had the international section for the 14 day trail,i only signed up and paid for the standard Annual Essentials Membership and have done most of my research on the Scottish People's website as my mum's side of the family are nearly all Scottish and as i was drawing a blank with Agnes and had never ever really thought about any other Sims being out in Canada ,How wrong was I??I am going to have to look at the international membership now
Well you have just renewed my interset in the scottish side again as i had hit a brick wall on the Ferriers of Dundee and had become distracted by my dad's family and my husband grandparents .So now i have to solve the mystery aunt in Canada ,we are all statching our heads ,the only thing we know for sure is that Elizabeth Thomson (nee Sim)was living in Scotland in 1937 as she recorded her Father Richard Sim's death,so i am now thinking Jane or Flora maybe?

Guess what i will be doing this weekend after we have dropped our youngest son off at university for the new term.

I googled the cemetery and it looks very large ,Is it a public graveyard and would i be able to visit it?i am asking as some grave yards are private here in the u.k. My list of places to visit is just getting longer and longer.
Have you any idea how i could find out if her grave is marked ?Do the cemerty's keep records ?
anyway i wil have to go, ironing and shopping to do for the returning student(i expect his clothes will not see an iron again until the holidays)
thankyou so much ,i can not believe the amount of help i have been given on this forum.
regards liz

Well
i can not believe i have just found my Great Aunt Jane married to a Alex Barnes in 1902 marriage took place in Prinlaws Leslie Fife.
I have had a look at the passenger list for out going passengers arrivals in Canada and there is a Jane and Alexander Barnes arriving in Quebec,haven't been able to access them until I up grade my subscription to Ancestry..Now was Jack a Nick name?
Looks like we may be on our way to solving this mystery .
Still not sure who the bride is???
thanks again ,i am going to check out the other sister and see who they married ,just in case!

Still haven't done the ironing or shopping ,it is going to be a busy day tomorrow ,or maybe just do the shopping when we arrive in Bristol when we drop him off and let him do his own ironing
thanks again liz

Hi Liz,

So happy you saw this - I hoped you would. And to heck with the ironing and shopping!

My mother's adoptive father is buried in Prospect Cemetery in the veteran's section; there is no problem with access. I belong to a group that takes the public on guided walks and one of them was in Prospect this summer - before the walk I went into the office and asked for the location of Grandfather's grave (he died in 1948) and they gave me a marked map - I couldn't find it but getting a map will be no problem. The guided walk was to point out all the types of trees in the cemetery; it's quite a lovely park-like spot with some unusual trees.

The St. Clair Avenue West streetcar stops almost at the gates of Prospect; the cemetery is in the area of the city known as Via Italia - it's at the western end of that area so lots of Italian restaurants to eat in after a visit to Prospect.

After I posted, I thought I should have mentioned that Prospect is in the area of the city at one time known as Silverthorn...you had mentioned Silverthorn before so maybe the Barnes family ended up living in the area. But there still NOT any bears there!

As I mentioned, I am rushing to try and trace his father for an elderly man who is quite sick but will try to check the city directories for Alex or Jack Barnes. Jack is usually the nickname for John. Could it be that Jack is the brother of Alex? He would sort of be Agnes brother-in-law and maybe the authorities wanted a relative to be the informant and it was just easier to say he was her brother-in-law.

Carolyn

Odd that you found Jane and Alexander travelling together - I have just found Alexander Barnes, age 54, of Leslie, Scotland, miner (intends to be a labourer in Canada) and his 12 year old son, Allan, travelled on the Minnedosa out of Glasgow to Montreal, third class, arriving 6 September 1930.

It states they had never been to Canada before but intended to stay; the relative they are going to stay with is Jane Barnes, wife of Alexander, who lives at - where else! - 944 King St. West.

Alex was born in Leslie; Allan in Methil.

The nearest relative in Scotland is (it's faded) Mr. James Barnes, High Street, Leslie, Fife.

Hi Carolyn
that is great news about Prospect Cemetery,i am going to need a few months in Canada at this rate ,it is worth a shoot that i may find a marker for Agnes grave.
So it looks like we have found the Silverthorn connection,this is just so amazing.
As for the bears (if my dad could tell tales about the war ,Why couldn't mum tell tales about her bears and the molasses barrel on their porch in Canada)We loved her telling us the stories of Canada with all the snow and bears as children. so maybe there were no bears,but we loved the stories all the same.

When i said i had found a Jane and a Alex arriving at Quebec ,It looks like they were both on different list and at present i am unable to access them until i up grade my subscription ,which i will most likely not get sorted until Sunday on my return from Uni.drop at Bristol.

However i think you have found Alexander for me.
according to the marriage certificate i down loaded last night from the Scottish Peoples website ,Alex Barnes aged 26 years,of Prinlaws Leslie and Jane Sim aged 22 years,of Croft outserly Leslie(the house my mum and uncle Billy were born in)married on the 25th June 1902,Alex was a paper worker and Jane worked in a paper mill.Alex's father was a John Barnes and a Yard bleacher.
So i am now going to look to see if Alex also had a brother called John or even Jack to establish the Jack link.Hopefully i can find the family on the 1901 census in Leslie
One of the witness's for their wedding was Robert Barnes(most likely Alex's brother)

Well Sally was correct all along about 944 King St West.What great detective work Sally .
Sally if you come across this ,is the Palace Arms number 944 or could one of the house's had been 944 as you mentioned the old man standing out side number 946?I am being to think they had a lot of Sim's in the rooms above the Palace Arms !!

It looks like at least three of the Sim girls and their families left Scotland and gave Canada a go,Leslie is a small village/town in fife and it must of been a huge thing to end up in a large city like Toronto(especially with all those Bears
Methil where Allan was born is a tiny coastal village not far from Leslie it must of been a huge adventure for Jane and Alex's 12 year old son Allan
Well i have a day off work today so looks like my day will be playing on the computer looking for the Barnes and Sim and to heck with the ironing and think of the money i will save if i do not do his shopping for him(i quite simply have no hope of that one!!!!)
so thankyou again regards Liz
I Can not wait to come to Canada ,my brother is interested in visiting as well now .

Hi
Just found The Barnes on the 1891 Census for Leslie Fife and there is no Jack ,however a son called John aged 10years old and Alex, Jane Sim's husband to be is only 14 years old so it looks like John/Jack Barnes may of travelled to Canada as well.could not find any deaths in Scotland for either Jane or Alex Barnes death(who were born in scotland ) ,so i am now wondering if Jane was the Aunt that did settle in Canada and had offered to adopt my mum and Aunt Jessie .
So who knows i may still have living relatives in Canada somewhere.
I am a huge step closer thanks to all the help from yourself and of course Sally ,I now knowing the name Barnes ,because even with Agnes i had only Sim to work on .So thanks again ,i need to switch off this computer and go and have some breakfast ,i dreamt about Barnes and Sim's last night and i had hardly opened my eyes before i was sat in the study this morning ,i am sure i will be back later
bye for now Liz

Great! At least 3 more tourists for Canada next year!

Odd that I have Ancestry World but can't find Jane Barnes or a John Barnes.

944 King is 3 stories, there may have been room for all of them.

I'll check the city directories today hopefully to find John, I hope; I'm having no luck with the elderly man's father.

Carolyn (formerly Sally)

Checked the city directories 1933 to 1955 and then skipped to 1958; here's the first few years (I have to go out), spellings change for Alan/Allan and Alex sometimes has the initial C...:

1933

Alex Barnes, labourer, h. 944 King West
Alex Jr., porter at Honey Dew, r. 944 King West
Harry, engineer/fireman at City Dairy, h. 85 Ypres Rd, Silverthorn (I wasn't looking for a Harry but noticed Silverthorn)
John, labourer, r. 944 King West

1934

Alex, Alex Jr. and John, as above
Harry - as above

1935

Alex and Alex Jr. (and likely Jane) must have moved mid-year as they are listed in two places:

Alex, no occupation given, Alex Jr., still at Honey Dew, first living at 867 Dundas East, then at 412A Roncesvalles Ave. but second listing as Alex C., labourer, so he was working when they movedd to Roncesvalles
Alan W., (no occupation given), also at 412A Roncesvalles
Harry, as above
John, musician at Marks-Winn School, r. at 412A Roncesvalles

1936

Alex, h. 316 Brock Avenue, no job noted
Alex Jr., r. 316 Brock, same job
Alan, not listed
Harry, as above
John, musician, r. 316 Brock

1937

Alex and Alex Jr., as above
Harry, as above
John, warehouseman, Roofers Supply, r. 316 Brock

1938

Alan, sheet metal worker, Roofers Supply, r. 316 Brock
Alex, as above
Alex Jr., still at Honey Dew, r. 316 Brock
Harry, as above
John, as above

1939

Alex C., 28 Shannon
Allan, same job and living at 316 Brock
John, Shipper, at same place and living at 316 Brock
Harry, as above

1940

No Alex(s)
Allan, press hand, Trane Co. r. 1054 Ossington
Jack, employee Rubber Supply Co. h. 1054 Ossington
John, warehouseman, Roofers Supply h. 1054 Ossington
Harry, as above

hi
Ended up in Bornemouth yesterday afternoon as the weather was surprising good for England in October,so we headed for the beach ,most likely for the last day this year.We did head out to visit the New Forest ,but we saw the sign post for Bournemouth and thought we can do the New Forest anytime

So i spent yesterday evening and this morning Researching the Barnes's,i have now got credits on my ancestry account so ,i did find Alex and Allen going out to Canada as you said,i also downloaded Agnes's details.thankyou so much for that ,that is another piece of the jigsaw .

So like you i came to a blank on Jane Barnes ,there were loads of Jane's but not the one i was looking for !!I had no luck finding Jack/John Barnes either.Although it looks like you found him in 1940
"Jack, employee Rubber Supply Co. h. 1054 Ossington"

So i went back to The Scottish Peoples website and found Alex and Jane's children.To see if i could find any clues.
So we now have a number of children from Jessie ,John ,Richard, Alex crombi,and of course Allen.
So when i read your reply this morning and saw you had found a Alex C ,i gave that a try and to my delight i not only found his passage to Canada on board the Letitia,
leaving Glasgow on the 28th June 1929 arriving in Quebec on the 7th July ,HE was a fountain pen worker and he was going to be staying with his Auntie Jessie Wilson,maiden name Sim,at 539 Silverthorn Avenue.
So this is where my mum and her sister were living with their aunt Jessie and uncle Allen .So that is where Silverthorn comes in???
Still no bears !!
So it looks like the Barnes settled in Canada as they were there for at least 10years.Long after Agnes Died and Jessie returned to Scotland .
I wonder if any of them are still in Canada !
I have just goggled the address's and it looks like they all stayed within the Toronto area.
So it looks like the Barnes will be my next step .

So thankyou again,
Liz

hi
Forgot to ask ."Honey Dew ",i goggled it and it came back with a Canadian company that produce soft drinks and fruit juices.
Would that had been the same company that Alex Jr was working for do you think ?
regards Liz

So there is a Richard Barnes, too, son of Alex and Jane? Do you mean Jessie is also their child? There were Jessies in the city directories.

Yes, Honey Dew was an orange drink - I think they still make it.

I wonder if the ones who stayed in Canada had any children - they seem to be roomers much of the time and moving a lot, not that you can't move a lot and have children.

So no Harry in your searches? Maybe it was just a coincidence that he lived in Silverthorn but I'll continue to list him:

1941

Barnes, No Alex(s), No Allan (active service? or would they be too old?)
Harry, same as before
No Jack (active service?)
John, as before

1942

Barnes, No Alex(s), No Allan
Harry, works now at Borden's (also a Dairy), lives in the same place
Jack, warehouseman, r. 1567 Dundas West (no way to know if it's the same Jack as lived on Ossington)
John, lots of them listed, none on Ossington

1943

Barnes, Alexander C, inspector, Parker Pen Co. h. #11, 2 Spadina Road
Harry, same job (but it's back to being called City Dairy), same address
Joseph, employee, Parker Pen Co., h. 122 Holland Park Fairbank - Fairbank was north of Silverthorn - included him because of the Parker Pen connection

1944 - volume missing

1945

Alex C., as above
Harry, as above
John, too many to pick from
Joseph, foreman, Parker Fountain Pen, same home address

1946

Alexander C., as above
Allan, r. 6 Cherrynook Gardens (not sure this the right Allan - there should only be one "l" and Cherrynook is in the east end - the Barnes family seemed to stay in the west end but this Allan shared digs with a John
Allen W. (this could be the right person although spelling isn't right), h. 2368 St. Clair Avenue West - (I went by there today and the house is replaced but it's not too far west of Silverthorn Avenue which is not too far west of Prospect Cemetery so likely why they chose that cemetery for Agnes), no occupation given
Harry, same
John, empl. Apex Engravers, r. 6 Cherrynook Gardens

1947

Alex C., as above
Allan, r. 6 Cherrynook,
Harry, same
John, r. 6 Cherrynook
Joseph, same job, same home

1948

Alex C., same
Harry, same
Jack - finally a Jack - emp. CNR, r. 34 Ritchie Avenue
No likely John, nor Allan
Joseph, as above

1949

Alan W., salesman, Electrolux (vacuum cleaners), h. 328 Campbell Avenue
Alex C., as above
Harold C., foreman, Gair & Co., 87 Ypres Road (so next door to Harry at 85 Ypres)
Harry, labourer, changed jobs to Gall Lumber Co.
Jack, empl. Massey-Harris, r. 34 Ritchie
Joseph, metal and plating foreman, Parke Pens, same home

1950

Allan, helper, Liquid Carbonic, r. 32 Tracey - probably not the right man but will include him because he's the best choice for Allan/Alan in 1950
Alex C., same
Harold and Harry, the same
Jack, Massey-Harris, same residence
John, is now living with Alex C. at #11, 2 Spadina Road
Joseph, same

1951

Alex C., same address but no job mentioned
Harold and Harry, the same
Jack - 5 of them but none at 2 Spadina Road
Jean C. - she's a clerk at Borden's, where Harry works - will include her just in case!
John, lives at #11, 2 Spadina - so are Jack and John the same person?
Joseph, the same

1952

No Alex C. - but Jack, is living at #11, 2 Spadina Road
Allan, tire serviceman at Canadian Lodi Super Treads, r. 117 Logan with an Alex Barnes - coincidence or is this our Alex C?
Both Harolds are gone
15 John Barnes listed
Joseph - good old Joseph still has the same job and the same house

1953

No Alex C, no Harold, no Harry, 4 Jacks (and none of them live on Spadina), 7 Johns and NO JOSEPH!
Alex, 117 Logan Avenue (east end)

1954

Alan, Serviceman at Canadian Lodi, r. 335 Glen Road
No Alex, no Harold, no Harry
Jack is still at 2 Spadina
Joseph is the same as before
Too many Johns to choose but maybe Jack is John?

1955

Allan (they never get this name one way!), salesman, r. 335 Glen Road
Jack is still on Spadina
Joseph is still at Parker Pen

I skipped 1956 and 1957

1958

(my pen ran out of ink!) but there was an Alan W., factory something I forget and he lived either on Broadway Avenue or it could have been Broadview Avenue
No Alex
No Jack
Joseph - the same

Today after searching at the Mormons for my elderly friend's father (without much luck, I might add), I left early and went to Prospect Cemetery.

Agnes Sim is buried in Section 23, plot 5811. Sorry to report that I couldn't find a marker although I'm sure I was in the right row - it's an old part of the cemetery and despite digging around (with a pen) for the gravestone # on it I couldn't find any markers where it should be - there is a tree there that was likely much smaller 70 years ago.

The woman in the office was busy and when I said I wanted to ask about a couple of graves - she said okay implying 2 was enough, so I asked for Barnes - I couldn't see the entire list as the computer was turned away but there was not too long a list. I shouldn't have asked for Harold - I should have asked about Alex...next time. There is a Harold there, I found the stone, his wife was Flora, his son was George Ernest and two other people are in the plot - Herbert Smith and Christina Ferguson.

And that's it for now!

Well what a lot of information
What a busy day yesterday ,we drove down to Bristol to drop the youngest back at university and i managed to do his shopping .Aren't children an expensive hobbies.
Anyway i have read and reread all the information
I am wishing i had found a Harry in my searches as he is so much easier to keep track off ,i wouldn't of minded Joseph either as he looks like a reliable choice
to .
I have had no luck finding Jane or Alex after the birth of their children ,Except for Alex and Allen W travelling to Canada and Jane living at 944 King Street West.It looks like they fell off the face of the earth !
It seems as if their last child was Allen W ,i have found a Jessie Ferrier Barnes (And Why am i not surprised to find yet another Jessie Ferrier) ,A John Barnes ,Richard Sim Barnes, of course Alex Crombie Barnes
and "maybe a Robert and a William , i would have to order the certificates as they are not available for downloading on line yet !" So still querying them.

I have looked for Jessie ,and Richard (Jane and Alex's children)and have drawn a blank with them as well ,so i am not sure if they ever left Scotland. Jessie was born in 1903 and Richard was born in 1907 so they may of been settled with families of their own .before the family decide to emigrate to Canada


Well back to all your research ,Active service looks like a strong possibility for Allen W (born 1917) and Alex C (born 1910)would be the right age.
John /Jack(born 1905) would maybe a little old of active service??
It looks as if we do indeed lose Allen W between 1941 until 1946.

And we only lose Alex C for a few years before he appears working at Parkers Pens living at 11,2 Spadina road ,he seems to settle there for quite a while ,would this of been a boarding house too for roomers too?
as it looks like he lived there until 1951,and then it seems as thou Jack/John moved in and Alex move on maybe to live with Allen . at 117 Logan.
So it can not be all coincidences surely ! !
They did like to move around a lot !
I am now starting to see were my eldest son got his itching feet from ,he has to be on the move all the time as well ,finally settled we hope in,the merchant navy ,so he can combine his wonder lust and career together.We are keeping our fingers crossed.

I am beginning to give up hope that the Barnes ever settled down and had Wife's and children.

Thankyou so much for finding Agnes grave .I am not surprised that she did not have a marker ,as i am sure in the 1930's the families all over the world would of had better thing to spend their money on .
A little sad all the same ,as her final resting place was not marked ,i love the idea of the tree being there for all the years that she has been there .
I know this is a silly question ,but would you know what sort of tree it is ?
and i am really grateful to you for getting the section and plot number so i will be able to see it myself .

thanks again liz

True about the marker on Agnes grave - during the depression families certainly had more important things to do with their money. Sorry, I don't know what kind of tree it is - I'm not good at trees except maples and I didn't even look up on Saturday.

Here's a link regarding WWII soldiers http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/022-909.007-e.html.

There's a good chance 2 Spadina Road is still standing - there's one older building on the northwest corner of Spadina and Bloor - it's stores on the ground floor and apartments above.

The city directories only noted the name of a woman if she lived alone and was single, that is the 'head' of the household; if she was a widow, it said so, and it mentioned the deceased husband's name in brackets. So Jane could always have lived with someone who was considered the 'head' - even if she was a widow, she could have gone to live with one of her sons or even roomed in a house or apartment. She may very well have moved Jack/John into her apartment at 2 Spadina if Alex died so that someone else was helping with the rent and expenses.

Carolyn

Hi Liz - called Prospect - Alexander Crombie Barnes died in 1951, Jane Barnes is buried with him - she died in 1963.

Section 28, grave #2064.

Maybe tomorrow, I'll call and ask about Jack/John Barnes.

C

Well you have rendered me speechless .
I am so pleased you found Jane and Alex .
I had a niggling disappointing doubt that they may off gone back home to Scotland .(even thou i could not find them)
My other theory was also, had Jane died young as well,just like her sister Agnes and Joan (my grandmother) ,but i am glad to see she lived a long life 83years and 75 years for her husband Alex .So life in Canada must off been good to them .
So if Jane was not buried until 1963 her sons must of buried her with their dad .So the boys must of settled in Canada ,as i can not imagine them returning to Scotland after all that time ,surely !!
Maybe Alex's and Jane's sons ,Allan Wilson Barnes ,Alex Crombie JR Barnes and John /Jack Barnes ,eventually settle down and had families.
They would all be coming up for one hundred years old now ,in fact John would be over a hundred .
So out there somewhere they may be children or grandchildren still living in the Toronto area.This is all just to amazing to take it all in ,and i know i have said it before i truly do not know how to begin to thank you for all your help.I am so looking forward to meeting you.
I am now looking at July or august next year ,so i will get the flights booked soon ,i would rather it was September ,however my brother is a Teacher so he can not do term time .we will see,all i know is i can hardly wait until then .
By the way the only reason i asked about the Tree was because ,when we were researching family up in Scotland .We found in many of Scotland's grave yards there are loads of Yew tree's and we were told that it is a long standing tradition to have Yew tree's in Scottish burial grounds .So i just wondered if the Scottish folk had taken the tradition with them ,it was just my idle curiosity!
anyway i had better go as i have been on the computer since i came home from work ,Looks as if it will be fish and chips from the chippy for tea in this house tonight
regards liz

www.twospadina.com is a website for that building. There are 22 apartments and they had a sign up for a one bedroom vacancy but the website doesn't reflect that so there isn't a photo on the site but maybe there will be soon.

I have to go out but did some more directory-looking this afternoon - Alan W. - there are two some years and some years none. One Alan W. in 1970 is VP of a company and the other is some sort of service technician. They seemed to move almost every year but it's impossible to tell if they had children. On the ship's manifest Alan is spelled with one "l"....so is that correct?

Alan is a year older than my mother who still lives on her own - you could check www.canada411.ca which is a phone directory for the entire country.

If there's a stone on the grave it may give information - it looked like rain today so I didn't go to the cemetery as that plot is further into the cemetery than I want to be if it starts to rain.

Alex Jr. must have left Toronto (or died but the cemetery only had the one Alex) as he doesn't appear up to 1977. The Alex on Logan Avenue was probably renting a room or sharing rent as the owners were two men with a (maybe) Polish surname. BUT the city directories at some point began to rely on the people in the homes filling in and returning information to the directory company and I'm sure some people just never bothered as almost everyone had a phone by then and they were in the phone book - the library has a lot of old phone books, too.

Surely one of them had at least one child!

I'll try and post more tomorrow or later tonight as I have to be off now.

thought i would have a quick look before i head off to work and i have just printed off a list of phone number for A. Barnes ,fifteen in total in Toronto ,so not too bad ,so i will give the numbers a ring later when i get home . wish me luck .
Surely one of the three sons had ,as you said at least one child between them
I have Allan on his birth certificate by the way .With with two L's .Of course he was the youngest of the sons,Alex and John would be coming up to 100 or over in John's case.
anyway i must go as i am running late again ,i have a train to catch bye for now . Liz

So these Alan W.s might be wrong ... nothing I found yesterday decides anything.

But I'll add a bit of what I found yesterday: (gee, they moved a lot!)

1965

Alan W., salesman, Rotor Tool Co. of Canada, h. 3 Longfellow Rd, Etobicoke
3 Jacks

The phone book listing for Rotor was Rotor Portable Pneumatic Hi-Cycle Tools, affiliate of Cooper Bessemer of Canada

1967

Alan W., Vice President, Rotor Tool Co., h. Apt. 301, 70 Dixfield Drive, Etobicoke (my cousin and her husband live in a house on Dixfield - I pass the apartment building on my way to research at the Mormons)
Al - salesman - Firestone Tire, 5 Bernard
No Jacks

1970

Alan W., Serv. Engineer, Transcopy Tor., h. #107,. 38 Thorncliffe Park Drive
Alan W., VP, Rotor Tool, h. Apt. 512, 2 Triburnham Place, Etobicoke (known as the Elmcrest Apartments)

1971

Same as 1970 -

1977

Neither of them listed but, as I mentioned, they might not have bothered to send in the reply to the directory company.

There were many Johns every year but probably John was Jack and it's just guessing who is who.

You're really going to phone all of them...wow. Good luck! Let me know.

Carolyn

I googled Cooper and here are a few choices....if the phone calls don't work you might write to them requesting information on former VP:

http://bing.search.sympatico.ca/?q=Cooper%20Bessemer%20of%20Canada&mkt=en-ca&setLang=en-CA

Contacts
Have questions? Contact Customer Service at:
E-mail: infocentral@asme.org
Phone: 1-800-843-2763
or 1-973-882-1170
Mexico: 001-800-843-2763 Fax: 1-973-882-1717

Well what on earth made me think that was a good idea!!
I phoned the first number and a lovely lady answered and there were no Allan's or Alex's for that matter ,she was very nice and wished me luck .I am sure she thought i was a little mad when she asked were i was ringing from .And she giggled a little saying she did not think it was a Canadian accent .Or Scottish!! i must of mentioned that my Aunt and her family were Scottish
However that call only took a couple of minutes ,so it was worth a shot .
The next call was a different matter altogether ,a charming, and very chatting elderly?Gentlemen answered and he chatted and chatted and chatted some more .(at this point my husband was blowing a gasket and looking at his watch )I think i will have to take out a second mortgage to pay the phone bill.
After a long chat with Andrew ,we established that he was the only" A Barnes" living at that address
HE had been to England ,in fact the South of England very close to where I live ,while he was serving in the Canadian Navy and based in ,I think he said Nova Scotia??
He came over here for some training with the British Navy ,or maybe to train the British Navy . And had always planned to come back one day ,with his wife and two boys .he was now a widower and i assume living alone and was simply thrilled to have some mad English woman to chat too (At this point my husband is slowly turning blue!!) and repeating the Bill !!That phone call has done nothing for hubby's blood pressure .
Any way to cut a long story short i decided after chatting to Andrew for twenty minutes (i just could not get off the phone)it was not such a wise idea to jump in and call all fifteen numbers with A Barnes.And if i do, only do a couple at a time so they do not all appear on the same bill .
So i have thought about it maybe i will write to them all and enclosing an stamped addressed envelope and an e-mail address and wait and see what come back .,if anything .
Of course i will send a postcard to Andrew as well ,just because he was lovely
However i am going to sleep on this idea and not rush in quite so fast .

Thankyou for the e-mail address for Coopers it has to be worth a try ,after all this i will probably find they were confirmed bachelors,or just never had time to have children as they were moving so often .
well i have to go as i have a pile of paperwork to completed by tomorrow .
And i am sure my mind will not be on it ,to busy giggling about Andrew ,until my phone bill comes in

You made Andrew's day!

As much FUN as calls to strangers can be, for ONE stamp you might be better off writing to Veterans Affairs and asking if the brothers served in WWII as we think they did...if they were married by then the names of wives would be listed as next-of-kin.

Getting a copy of Jane's death certificate would likely show next-of-kin and other useful information such as her address. Here's a link to the online form ... you won't even need a stamp: http://bing.search.sympatico.ca/?q=government%20of%20ontario%20death%20certificates&mkt=en-ca&setLang=en-CA

Well everyone at work thought the Andrew story was funny ,i said i will come round with a collection box when the phone bill comes in .

I have just ordered Jane's Death Certificate and my husband also rang Prospect cemetery(i have a feeling he not to keen on me phoning Canada after Andrew) to find out what date Jane died The "1st January"only just in 1963 .What a date for a Scottish lady to die on ,at least she saw the new year in.
we needed date for the online form .
I put myself down as niece as there,was not an option for great niece.so lets hope that will give us some more clues .

i will contact the veterans affairs tomorrow but if it is anything like the U.K. you have to be next of kin or a very close relative to access any information on service records ,our national archive charge a small fortune to use as well .I have just ordered my Dad's army records ,that was my birthday presents from my sons.However with the Barnes story the family have not asked about my Dad for ages .
thanks again
Liz

Veterans Affairs was pretty good when I ordered my mother's birth father's service record and now all the WWI attestation papers are online for free. With WWII, the person has to be dead for 20 years and then you should be able to get their records should there be any....if they served and if they've been dead that long.

I phoned Prospect today to ask if they had a John/Jack or an Alan but the woman who answered was busy and I never did get back to them.

The library has a website that, with a library card, you can bring up all sorts of information including death notices in the paper - I couldn't find one for Jane though which was disappointing. I'm going to check again. Those can be really helpful.

Liz, Google Maps has Toronto online now - I just looked at 2 Spadina - it's the building with the 7Eleven on the ground floor. You should be able to find all the buildings family lived in.

http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&layer=c&cbll=49.31297,-123.140959&panoid=t-nC2GCvprCZ9Z102cPhrg&cbp=11,10.85,,0,0.8&ll=49.310351,-123.125153&spn=0.111917,0.441513&z=11&utm_campaign=en&utm_medium=ha&utm_source=en-ha-na-ca-bk-svn&utm_term={keyword}

C

I looked up several of addresses for your family - most would seem to be the same places they lived in but I think 539 Silverthorn might be gone.

hi ,
i have just had a quick look at the new street scenes ,they are great ,we have only got the normal goggle maps for my home town,just had a look ,some parts of the U.K. have been done.
I have just had a quick look and the Palace arm 944 King St West isn't so bad ,nicer than i expected.

Well yesterday was one of those days when i hardly had time to stop,so i never had time to write to the veteran affairs so i will sort that out tonight and have a play with the goggle map checking out all the addresses you have given me.
bye for now Liz

Hi Carolyn
I rang Prospect and they have no records for Allan,Alex Jr,or a John /Jack.So i filled out the veteran affairs paperwork with a covering letter explaining ,so now i will wait and see what comes back.
I had a play with the goggle maps ,aren't they great.Toronto is a lot greener than i expected.
I still have credits on my Ancestry account so i will keep looking,just to use them up and wait to see what i hear ,i will let you know if i find out anything of interest.
By the way have you had any luck with your other search ?good luck with that one ,hope you find him ,i am sure you will. regards Liz

Hi Liz - my computer broke down - a friend just left - he fixed it so I'm back online - it's DREADFUL without it. I tried e-mail but can't get to it...which is beyond annoying.

Toronto is very green with lots of parks and miles of ravines.

I phoned Prospect, too, and they told me they had 8 John Barnes so I needed a date of death before they'd tell me more. What we really need from the cemetery is who took care of funeral arrangements but that would require a search of more than who is buried there. I hope Veterans Affairs works.

Thanks for asking about the search for my friend's FIL. I'm waiting for a marriage certificate for Mr. L's parents - they married in Pennsylvania in 1922. Mr. L has been in pain and a CAT scan showed a large mass which is cancerous; it doesn't look good for him - fingers crossed that I can find out what became of his father.

C

Hi Carolyn,
I have searched for John and seem to be getting no where ,nothing seems to come up on ancestry or genes reunited .He was born in 1904 so would of been to old for active service i assume .So i am really hoping that Jane's death certificate or the veterans affairs come up with something,i have come such a long way with your help ,when you think i had not even been aware that i had another aunt in Canada other than Agnes .
I took the dog for a walk last night ,along our local beach and i stood and read one of the memorials,it has been there since 1994 and was unveiled by the Canada prime Minster of the time , and i have to be honest i have glance at it and never really thought about it before it is in memory of the Canadian troops that left Stokes Bay to go to the D.Day landings back in 1944 and i stood there last night and realized that my cousins The Barnes may well of left for Normandy from my local beach along with thousands of other young soldiers including my own father,who was in the Pioneers at the time and also left from Stokes Bay .

.
Isn't it awful when you lose your computer , Our Internet went down for two days not so long ago and i was lost .How on earth did we do anything before computers
I do hope you find your friends dad ,It is so frustrating waiting for certificates to arrive ,especially under the circumstances,i hope they get the pain under control for him soon ,It is so hard to watch a friend in pain .
so fingers crossed you get your marriage certificate soon with enough clues to trace his dad .
regards Liz

I admire anyone who managed to trace their family before we had computers with online sources - but people did it for years and I've corresponded with one woman in England who still doesn't have one - she sent me a handwritten tree - I'm related to her distantly.

Have you heard from Veterans Affairs or any other news on the family tree front?

I'm still waiting for the marriage cert for Mr. L's parents but, sadly, was told last night that he has just days to live so anything I do find will likely be too late.

I just noticed that Ancestry has Ontario marriages by clergy 1896 to 1948 so searched for Alan, Alex and John Barnes - not one of them showed up...so that's disappointing.

One good thing I found on Ancestry today is that someone has added a family tree with one set of my Great Grandparents, my maternal Grandmother and her siblings....I've never heard of this person so hope she sees my comment on the site; she lives in Leicestershire.

On a sad note, Mr. L. died on Wednesday night. Still no marriage certificate from Pennsylvania.

I am so sorry to hear your news about Mr L ,and such a shame the marriage certificate never came in time.At least you tried and Mr L knew you were researching for him .
Great news about finding someone on Ancestry and in Leicester too,now that sounds promising.
I have just discovered a couple of days ago that at my local library they have Ancestry available free of charge including the international membership ,i had not realized that when i paid for my credits to look for Allan,Alex and John Barnes .
Well i have not heard from The veterans Affairs as yet.However the British postal service is of and on at the moment .As our postal workers are staging strike action ,so i was very surprised this morning when i received Jane death certificate,
So here is the info i have, she died at "The Toronto Western Hospital" aged 89 years ,her home address was "377 Glenholmes Avenue York Toronto"She was a Canadian citizen, and had live in Canada for 34years (so she must off arrived around 1929/1930 time)
her son "Alan Wilson Barnes"was the informant and he lived at "3 Longfellow road Weston "and the funeral director was Cook funeral house 721 Bloor Street West.
So Alan(note the spelling,he has lost the second L)did settle down with a home of his own so maybe he and his brothers and maybe his sister did have families after all.
My other news is that my cousin found another box full of more old photo's and on the back of one of them is written " Dickie's(my mum's cousin was called Dickie) cousins in Canada and it is a picture of three young men and a young girl ,so maybe Jessie Ferrier Barnes (Jane and Alex's daughter )did also go to Canada with the family. i still have not been able to find Jane,John or Jessie for that matter travelling to Canada.
Annie also found a photo of Jean Barnes in Canada(written on the back) ,i am assuming that is Jane as Jane's often became Jean here in the U.K.
Annie is having copies made for me as her computer has broken down so i will have to wait a while.
So i am off to the library on Monday morning to search for the Barnes again.i will let you know how it goes..
bye for now Liz

There were Jessie Barnes listed in the city directories but I never made note of them.

I checked 377 Glenholme (no 's') and 3 Longfellow on google maps - and 721 Bloor but it's a newer building.

Gee, strange things happen sometimes, I googled Cook Funeral home because I couldn't remember what it's called now (it's called Earle Elliott-Cook-Thompson and at a different address) - a page of someone's research came up of obituaries from the newspapers on certain days in 1963 and 1974 (no Barnes, unfortunately) and one of them was for "Baby ...., daughter of Mr. and Mrs. ...." - that baby was my cousin's infant girl who was stillborn - she was a twin, I don't think I ever even knew the date as I was living out of the province then. And my mother insisted it was a boy that didn't make it. What a strange thing to happen....well, I think so anyway.

So Alan W was the person who became VP of Rotor Tool. He moved a lot, too.

Glenholme is about 10 blocks west of Prospect Cemetery and in the area known as Silverthorn.

I remember you mentioning Jessie Barnes in the city directories,however she was born in 1903 so would of most likely got married and course change her name.If she ever settled long enough and was not moving around like her brothers?

i noticed that you had in fact found
"Alan W., salesman, Rotor Tool Co. of Canada, h. 3 Longfellow Rd, Etobicoke"
on one of your previous search's and that was in 1965 only two years after Jane died ,would Etobicoke be the same district as Weston which is on the death certificate as Alan W address?
I had a look on the goggle maps at Jane and Alan's listed addresses.The street Jane lived looks nice,very different from the home she left in fife Scotland.
So Silverthorn did play its part, and my mum was correct.
As for the bears my sister is still insisting that mum went to school on a sledge and the bears did indeed visit the porch .There is no way i am going to change her mind.

i have to sit down this afternoon and collect all the information up ready for my library visit tomorrow ,it looks like there will be no work done tomorrow either .
How strange in deed that you found your cousins little one on that page after goggling it for something else,if you had been looking for it you would never off found it so easily ,isn't it odd how fate works sometimes.

Well i never did contact Rotor Tools(coopers) before, but i am going to drop them an e-mails now as it looks like it must be the same Alan W anyway i will send it and see if they can tell me anything ,worth a shot.
well i must go Liz

I would think that in 1963 Longfellow Road was in Etobicoke, not Weston but it would be the same street. Alan kept moving west.

Maybe they had a summer cottage up north which would explain bears on the porch but not in the city and I suppose someone could have put your mother on a sled and pulled her to school for a special treat in the winter but it would be over sidewalks.

Hi
Well i still have not heard anything from the veteran affairs,mind you our postal service is quite shocking at the moment ,i have not heard back from Rotor Tools(coopers) ,but it was worth a try ,i have spent three evening's at the library and still have not found Jane arriving into Canada,in fact i found no trace of them so that drew a blank .
I managed to find loads of other information about other parts of the tree which was handy.I discovered that my great x 3 grandparents were originally from Ireland which surprised us all,We all believed that my mum's side were all Scottish ,my dad's family are all from Ireland ,so we have even more Irish blood than we thought.it is amazing what you can find when your not really looking.
Well my other piece of news is that we booked our flights and hotel yesterday.so i will now probably start a new thread with loads of question for our up and coming trip next August/September.
We booked a packaged holiday so we were limited to a few hotels.Booking it direct with the hotel and airline's would of worked out really expensive at the moment as the exchange rate for the British pound is terrible were ever we travel to even Europe ,and I was surprised how expensive the flight are .We are flying with Air Canada ,which we are thrilled with as I really do not like British airways ,as we have never had a good long haul flight with them yet ,either strike action has cause delays or losing our luggage( three separate occasions)So we now try to fly with anyone other than B.A. usually Virgin Atlantic ,but of course they do not fly to Canada ,so we think we got a good deal .And the hotel looks nice and we are hoping it is in a good area all the reports on tripadvisor seem to think it is a good location .What do you think ?Opps it would help if i told you which hotel
"The Sheraton Center Toronto Hotel" we were told it was quite near the Harbour and i had a look at the goggle map of course.
So we can start our count down ,and get some money saved up ,I can hardly wait
liz

Well, isn't that exciting for you - how long will you stay?

The Sheraton Centre near the harbour? Not really but not too far - if they mean you are on the lakefront which "near the harbour" means to me, the answer is no. It's on Queen Street across from City Hall and walkable to lots of places including One King West and has good transit links so you can see some of the family-related addresses you've been looking up and Prospect Cemetery.

You can google map it if you haven't already...it's 123 Queen Street West, City Hall is 100 Queen.

We will be in Toronto for ten days arriving on the 30th August,just my husband and myself now.
As my sister has only just be discharged from hospital after receiving treatment for blood clots four on her lungs and one in her leg ,the hospital have no idea how long they have been there ,so she will not be travelling long haul for some time ,thank goodness we never came in September as we were planning.
She is now on the mend,but flying will be a no no for a while.She has always suffered with high blood pressure and is a smoker so i am not sure if that has a connection.She is now on medication to thin the blood and very worried,as she is very bruised from the injections they have been given her and she now has to give her self the injection at home for the next week (she is much braver than i am).
Well i had a look at The Sheraton on the goggle map and it seems quite central and within walking distant to King West and the Harbour,I love The old City hall across the street and if it has good transit links that will be prefect for us. The holiday company we booked with gave us a choice of the Fairmont Royal York ,The Novotel,the Sheraton or the Day Inn,We chose the Sheraton as the deal was great only a little more than Novotel and the Day inn and a whole lot cheaper than The Fairmont .
We are now going to start a list of must do's ,Niagara is one ,and we are undecided if we should drive and stay over night or just go for the day and drive back .Or in deed wether to go on the bus or train .What are your thoughts?we are not sure if it is worth hiring a car as most of the things we wish to do are in or around Toronto except the Falls.
I also had a look at the weekly pass for the public transport http://www3.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Passes/Weekly_pass.jsp

They look like a good idea ,so i will give that some thought ,i will have to check the maps out and check the pass covers the area's i wish to visit.
well must fly the dog is waiting for her walk ,bye for now Liz

Sorry to hear about your sister - it IS a good thing she didn't fly this year.

My cousin, when visiting from Lincolnshire, took a bus tour to the Falls which included, I think, a meal and time to stay and see the lights on the Falls - she described the day as "magical". There are several companies that will take you - if you're tired after your day wandering around the Falls, hopefully in the sun, you can sleep on the bus - your hotel concierge will have info on the various tours available.

Yes, a weekly transit pass is a good idea - you can only walk so far - you likely want to see some of the former family homes and Prospect Cemetery and only Granby Street is downtown - that link doesn't say how much it costs but I think it's around $30 although rumour has it prices will increase soon.

Hopefully, by then, you'll have discovered some LIVING family you can visit, not just grave sites.

C