The hotel called one king west in Toronto
Aug 26th, 2009, 11:43 AM
#21
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thanks for that LJ we are now looking at the best time to travel.i can hardly wait.spent the last hour looking for Annie or joseph without luck ,even managed to lose Allen Wilson ,my uncle ,yes i am going to need luck
thanks liz
thanks liz
Aug 27th, 2009, 03:29 AM
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To search the directories, one can look under the address or the surname so I'll have a look for Allen Wilson later today..I should have checked 45 Ann in 1929 the other day. And the suburbs, such as Silverthorn, are listed separately.
What was Aunt Jessie's surname - and her husband's first name - they're likely in the directories, too.
As LJ says, 45 Granby is an easy walk from One King right up Yonge or 3 stops on the subway to College Station and then walk one block south - I wouldn't bother taking a car to that street; it's narrow and somewhat congested; it has a pedestrian-only entrance from Yonge Street, beside #431 Yonge.
What was Aunt Jessie's surname - and her husband's first name - they're likely in the directories, too.
As LJ says, 45 Granby is an easy walk from One King right up Yonge or 3 stops on the subway to College Station and then walk one block south - I wouldn't bother taking a car to that street; it's narrow and somewhat congested; it has a pedestrian-only entrance from Yonge Street, beside #431 Yonge.
Aug 27th, 2009, 06:18 AM
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Gleaner: where were your family from originally? that spelling of Allen is a family name in my past too, though as a surname...Allen was a very common name in Aberdeen, Scotland. That part of Toronto (Ann/Granby) was populated by a lot of working-class Scottish Presbyterians in the early days...it is very close to the WCTU (Women's Christian Temperance Union) headquarters, a project of Scots and stricter Methodists back in the early part of last century. If you know your relatives church affiliations, it can give you another place to look.
Aug 27th, 2009, 10:41 AM
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Hi sally and LJ,
I can not tell you how grateful I am for all your help, I have managed to go back eight generations of my family on my mum’s side, so far all of them are Scottish, but the Canada bit had stumped me, I was thrilled when I found them on the outgoing passage list, the first one I found was my great uncle on the SS Transylvania. And the address for him was the bank.
Then I found his wife great aunt Jessie, their son and my mum and her sister on the SS Lettitia.and they had 45 Ann street Youge street Toronto as their arrival address
They sailed from Glasgow; however, my mum was born in a small coal-mining village called Leslie near Dunfermline in Fifeshire Scotland, her uncle Allen was a Colliery Engineer and his son was a Painter.
LJ, I have no idea what church they used, I do know my Great Aunt always went to church and my Aunt Jessie went to Kirk every Sunday, unlike my mum (I think it was a Methodist church, aunt Jessie was married in) My uncle Chic (Jessie’s husband used to love a wee dram whiskey but we were told never to tell aunt Jessie)
Well their names
Allen Wilson, Mrs Jessie Wilson, their adopted son was 18years old and called Ernest Wilson. They adopted him when he was a small child around 5 or 6 I believe
My aunt Jessie was, Jessie Ferrier Sim Black aged 8
And my mum was, Margaret Watson Black aged 4
The great aunt that was already out in Canada was called Agnes Wilson Sim. (Maiden name)
We know she was in Canada in 1922 as she never met my mum until she went to Canada and when they were going to be returning home she had wanted to adopted my mum and aunt so they could stay in Canada, but her older sister great aunt Jessie would not allow it and took them back to Scotland and brought them up as her own.
We know Agnes was married by 1928 and we think to a Canadian, so we have no married name for her. There was some sort of family fall out after they returned from Canada and the family sadly lost touch with Agnes
Well I have printed out the directions to get to 45 Granby. I can hardly wait to see what the house looks like (silly I know)
Are there any other suggestions of places not miss while we are in Toronto, we are considering Toronto and the Niagara falls now, are the falls worth a visit? as we will be so close.
Well thank you all again
Liz
I can not tell you how grateful I am for all your help, I have managed to go back eight generations of my family on my mum’s side, so far all of them are Scottish, but the Canada bit had stumped me, I was thrilled when I found them on the outgoing passage list, the first one I found was my great uncle on the SS Transylvania. And the address for him was the bank.
Then I found his wife great aunt Jessie, their son and my mum and her sister on the SS Lettitia.and they had 45 Ann street Youge street Toronto as their arrival address
They sailed from Glasgow; however, my mum was born in a small coal-mining village called Leslie near Dunfermline in Fifeshire Scotland, her uncle Allen was a Colliery Engineer and his son was a Painter.
LJ, I have no idea what church they used, I do know my Great Aunt always went to church and my Aunt Jessie went to Kirk every Sunday, unlike my mum (I think it was a Methodist church, aunt Jessie was married in) My uncle Chic (Jessie’s husband used to love a wee dram whiskey but we were told never to tell aunt Jessie)
Well their names
Allen Wilson, Mrs Jessie Wilson, their adopted son was 18years old and called Ernest Wilson. They adopted him when he was a small child around 5 or 6 I believe
My aunt Jessie was, Jessie Ferrier Sim Black aged 8
And my mum was, Margaret Watson Black aged 4
The great aunt that was already out in Canada was called Agnes Wilson Sim. (Maiden name)
We know she was in Canada in 1922 as she never met my mum until she went to Canada and when they were going to be returning home she had wanted to adopted my mum and aunt so they could stay in Canada, but her older sister great aunt Jessie would not allow it and took them back to Scotland and brought them up as her own.
We know Agnes was married by 1928 and we think to a Canadian, so we have no married name for her. There was some sort of family fall out after they returned from Canada and the family sadly lost touch with Agnes
Well I have printed out the directions to get to 45 Granby. I can hardly wait to see what the house looks like (silly I know)
Are there any other suggestions of places not miss while we are in Toronto, we are considering Toronto and the Niagara falls now, are the falls worth a visit? as we will be so close.
Well thank you all again
Liz
Aug 27th, 2009, 11:05 AM
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Liz: Best of luck with that family tree!
Take some time out from the search to go to Niagara Falls. Whenever we have guests from Scotland (Aberdeen, in my family's case), we do the falls trip and they love it and so do I...and this must be my 100th time!
And though I hear you about that not-churchy thing, do spend a moment checking out the records of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. I know you said 'Methodist', but you used the word Kirk and that is very Presb vocab.The Methodists in Canada combined with one branch of the Presbyterians to form the United Church of Canada in 1928, and records are well-archived.
Except for the rare few, most of the Scots who came to Canada in those days passed through the portals of the Presbyterian church especially when it came time to get married or buried. You may be able to track them down yet.
Best of luck!
Take some time out from the search to go to Niagara Falls. Whenever we have guests from Scotland (Aberdeen, in my family's case), we do the falls trip and they love it and so do I...and this must be my 100th time!
And though I hear you about that not-churchy thing, do spend a moment checking out the records of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. I know you said 'Methodist', but you used the word Kirk and that is very Presb vocab.The Methodists in Canada combined with one branch of the Presbyterians to form the United Church of Canada in 1928, and records are well-archived.
Except for the rare few, most of the Scots who came to Canada in those days passed through the portals of the Presbyterian church especially when it came time to get married or buried. You may be able to track them down yet.
Best of luck!
Aug 27th, 2009, 11:54 AM
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Hi LJ
Well we will be going to the falls for sure now.
And thank you for the suggestion of checking out the records of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. I will do that, have you any idea how I can access there archives on line.
My mums family always referred to the church as a kirk, I had not realized the word kirk was related Presbyterian church, I always just thought it was a Scottish word, it is simply amazing how much I have learnt since I began this research .We grew up in Yorkshire and as a child I used to love visiting Scotland and Ireland (my dad’s family) as they all had such lovely accents. my father was a Catholic so my mum converted which is why I have no real knowledge of which church the family would have been apart off.
I should have paid more attention when she was alive and used to tell us her stories of growing up in Canada
Is there a good time to visit Niagara falls and Toronto we are edging towards September next year, and would you advise driving? I saw somewhere that there was a train that goes there?
Thanks again Liz
Well we will be going to the falls for sure now.
And thank you for the suggestion of checking out the records of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. I will do that, have you any idea how I can access there archives on line.
My mums family always referred to the church as a kirk, I had not realized the word kirk was related Presbyterian church, I always just thought it was a Scottish word, it is simply amazing how much I have learnt since I began this research .We grew up in Yorkshire and as a child I used to love visiting Scotland and Ireland (my dad’s family) as they all had such lovely accents. my father was a Catholic so my mum converted which is why I have no real knowledge of which church the family would have been apart off.
I should have paid more attention when she was alive and used to tell us her stories of growing up in Canada
Is there a good time to visit Niagara falls and Toronto we are edging towards September next year, and would you advise driving? I saw somewhere that there was a train that goes there?
Thanks again Liz
Aug 27th, 2009, 02:25 PM
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I was reading gleaner's new posting with the names at the ref library after I looked for Allen Wilson but lost the piece of paper with my password for Fodor's somewhere so had to wait till I got home to reply.
(Speaking of not being able to sign on to Fodors without the password, which isn't a word, I wish we had an easy-to-remember password for this site for when we're not home.)
I quickly looked for Agnes Sim but there wasn't one Agnes Sim or Agnes Wilson Sim from 1922 to 1927; there were lots of Ernest Wilson's but I didn't compare the addresses as this annoying woman was hanging around trying to do her research and taking my books! I saw her putting them back on the shelves and POINTED to the sign that said not to reshelve them...no wonder they're out of order sometimes. I wanted to avoid rush hour on the subway, too.
But I can reply now with what I did find and while eating a big PB sandwich with a drink...non-alcoholic.
In 1930 and 1931, the residents of 45 Ann Street were Samuel Balsom and Mrs. Margaret Barry.
In 1929, there were 2 AllAns and one AllEn but Allen was a student who lived with his family - the father was named John.
One Allan was an employee of Firtsbrook Bros (I think that might really have been Firstbook - Firtsbrook sounds wrong but it was definitely spelled like that) who boarded at 139 First Avenue - two women owned or ran that boarding house - their surnames were Donahue and Kelly.
The other Allan was a steelworker who lived at 623 Ontario Street, the owner/renter listed for that address was named Blaney.
In 1930, there were 4 Allan Wilsons listed - none spelled their name with an 'e' but that might have been the person compiling the directory. One was a carpenter who was in the directories for several years at the same address, 57 Warren Cres., one a student, the same one noted above; one Allan was an assistant shipper at a wallpaper company and one an employee I suspect was related to the assistant shipper at the same company but with different addresses which I didn't write down but one lived on Lascelles Blvd.
In 1931, there were still 4 Allans - one a steelworker, so likely the same person from 1929, worked at Dominion Bridge Company and lived at 944 King St. West with Alec Burns.
(If there was a male adult in the residence, the women's names were not noted - the males even made it once they were dead as the woman would be Mrs. J. Smith (widow of John).)
Allan the student is still listed as are Allan the carpenter and Allan the shipper.
I don't know why but there are only 3 volumes for 1932 - each year sometimes has as many as 10 volumes, perhaps something to do with the depression - anyway, there were 2 Allans - one a baggageman for the CNR (Canadian National Railway) who roomed at 351 Crawford Street.
The second AllEn, with an E, was a stationary (or is it stationery) engineer with Dominion Bridge and lived at 186 Garden Avenue in Parkdale - I have a cousin who lives on that street.
Because of the lack of volumes, I was unable to check who owned the homes these 2 Allans lived in.
In 1933, there was an Al - who was a driver for something called The Suititorium - my eyes are bad with small print but it was something like that - he roomed at 20 Charles West - that house was owned by Ed Doer.
Allan from Dominion Bridge was still listed but with an A instead of an E and lived at 68 Van Horne which was owned by Edgar Holmes.
The carpenter and the student were still listed.
The last AllEn was an employee at Dunlop Rubber Company and roomed at 31 Connaught Avenue (people named Wolstenholme and Hartley were the owners).
I know you said they returned to Scotland in 1933, but these directories were compiled a year or so ahead so I checked 1934 and there were was one Allan who was a music teacher and Allen who still worked at Dunlop but it was called Dunlop Tire now and he still roomed at 31 Connaught Avenue.
Did Ernest return to Scotland, too? He would have been in his 20s then and possibly married.
31 Connaught, the house itself is possibly still there running south from Queen Street East, just east of Greenwood Avenue and across from the Ashbridge House; the Connaught Barns where the TTC keeps streetcars is the other side of the street.
Perhaps if that is your Allen, they may have rented one of the floors for the family.
I think 'lived' meant you lived on your own, 'boarded' included meals and 'rooms' meant you rented a room or rooms but fended for yourself regarding meals. But I could be entirely WRONG about that and Allen with an 'e'.
While I had the volumes out, I checked my father's family and found them living with relatives - so that was news to me - I knew they lost their home in the depression but didn't know they'd bunked in with relatives for a time - it must have been crowded. I need to go and have a look at that house.
Ontario marriage records are available at the Ontario Archives and at the North York Main Library which has Canadian genealogy on the top floor. The Archives has a filmed copy of the marriage certificate with signatures, the location, the witnesses, the Minister/Priest and so on; the NL library branch has the records on fiche, so you get the number from the fiche when you find the one you want and then have to go to the Archives to see a copy of the certificate. In this case, we'd be searching for Agnes Sim so you find her listing but then need to take that number to the Archives and find the record which will then tell you who she married. The marriage records are available up to 1927 - they add a year each year so if she married in 1928, that record won't be public till next year. http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/englis...n/v-myear.aspx
Sounds complicated but it isn't and much easier than trying to find church records, I know from experience.
The Archives of Ontario used to be conveniently located downtown but moved this past May WAY UP to York University so not so easy to get to - in my case, anyway. I hate going north of Eglinton Avenue...which means nothing to gleaner, of course.
Agree that you must see Niagara Falls and September is a good time. Yes, there's a train, and bus tours but an easy drive - my son takes us there all the time for a drive.
I hope all this helps....any names or occupations mean anything?
(Speaking of not being able to sign on to Fodors without the password, which isn't a word, I wish we had an easy-to-remember password for this site for when we're not home.)
I quickly looked for Agnes Sim but there wasn't one Agnes Sim or Agnes Wilson Sim from 1922 to 1927; there were lots of Ernest Wilson's but I didn't compare the addresses as this annoying woman was hanging around trying to do her research and taking my books! I saw her putting them back on the shelves and POINTED to the sign that said not to reshelve them...no wonder they're out of order sometimes. I wanted to avoid rush hour on the subway, too.
But I can reply now with what I did find and while eating a big PB sandwich with a drink...non-alcoholic.
In 1930 and 1931, the residents of 45 Ann Street were Samuel Balsom and Mrs. Margaret Barry.
In 1929, there were 2 AllAns and one AllEn but Allen was a student who lived with his family - the father was named John.
One Allan was an employee of Firtsbrook Bros (I think that might really have been Firstbook - Firtsbrook sounds wrong but it was definitely spelled like that) who boarded at 139 First Avenue - two women owned or ran that boarding house - their surnames were Donahue and Kelly.
The other Allan was a steelworker who lived at 623 Ontario Street, the owner/renter listed for that address was named Blaney.
In 1930, there were 4 Allan Wilsons listed - none spelled their name with an 'e' but that might have been the person compiling the directory. One was a carpenter who was in the directories for several years at the same address, 57 Warren Cres., one a student, the same one noted above; one Allan was an assistant shipper at a wallpaper company and one an employee I suspect was related to the assistant shipper at the same company but with different addresses which I didn't write down but one lived on Lascelles Blvd.
In 1931, there were still 4 Allans - one a steelworker, so likely the same person from 1929, worked at Dominion Bridge Company and lived at 944 King St. West with Alec Burns.
(If there was a male adult in the residence, the women's names were not noted - the males even made it once they were dead as the woman would be Mrs. J. Smith (widow of John).)
Allan the student is still listed as are Allan the carpenter and Allan the shipper.
I don't know why but there are only 3 volumes for 1932 - each year sometimes has as many as 10 volumes, perhaps something to do with the depression - anyway, there were 2 Allans - one a baggageman for the CNR (Canadian National Railway) who roomed at 351 Crawford Street.
The second AllEn, with an E, was a stationary (or is it stationery) engineer with Dominion Bridge and lived at 186 Garden Avenue in Parkdale - I have a cousin who lives on that street.
Because of the lack of volumes, I was unable to check who owned the homes these 2 Allans lived in.
In 1933, there was an Al - who was a driver for something called The Suititorium - my eyes are bad with small print but it was something like that - he roomed at 20 Charles West - that house was owned by Ed Doer.
Allan from Dominion Bridge was still listed but with an A instead of an E and lived at 68 Van Horne which was owned by Edgar Holmes.
The carpenter and the student were still listed.
The last AllEn was an employee at Dunlop Rubber Company and roomed at 31 Connaught Avenue (people named Wolstenholme and Hartley were the owners).
I know you said they returned to Scotland in 1933, but these directories were compiled a year or so ahead so I checked 1934 and there were was one Allan who was a music teacher and Allen who still worked at Dunlop but it was called Dunlop Tire now and he still roomed at 31 Connaught Avenue.
Did Ernest return to Scotland, too? He would have been in his 20s then and possibly married.
31 Connaught, the house itself is possibly still there running south from Queen Street East, just east of Greenwood Avenue and across from the Ashbridge House; the Connaught Barns where the TTC keeps streetcars is the other side of the street.
Perhaps if that is your Allen, they may have rented one of the floors for the family.
I think 'lived' meant you lived on your own, 'boarded' included meals and 'rooms' meant you rented a room or rooms but fended for yourself regarding meals. But I could be entirely WRONG about that and Allen with an 'e'.
While I had the volumes out, I checked my father's family and found them living with relatives - so that was news to me - I knew they lost their home in the depression but didn't know they'd bunked in with relatives for a time - it must have been crowded. I need to go and have a look at that house.
Ontario marriage records are available at the Ontario Archives and at the North York Main Library which has Canadian genealogy on the top floor. The Archives has a filmed copy of the marriage certificate with signatures, the location, the witnesses, the Minister/Priest and so on; the NL library branch has the records on fiche, so you get the number from the fiche when you find the one you want and then have to go to the Archives to see a copy of the certificate. In this case, we'd be searching for Agnes Sim so you find her listing but then need to take that number to the Archives and find the record which will then tell you who she married. The marriage records are available up to 1927 - they add a year each year so if she married in 1928, that record won't be public till next year. http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/englis...n/v-myear.aspx
Sounds complicated but it isn't and much easier than trying to find church records, I know from experience.
The Archives of Ontario used to be conveniently located downtown but moved this past May WAY UP to York University so not so easy to get to - in my case, anyway. I hate going north of Eglinton Avenue...which means nothing to gleaner, of course.
Agree that you must see Niagara Falls and September is a good time. Yes, there's a train, and bus tours but an easy drive - my son takes us there all the time for a drive.
I hope all this helps....any names or occupations mean anything?
Sep 2nd, 2009, 03:24 AM
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hi sally
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you, however I have been in Scotland visiting my cousin Anne and ploughing our way through old photos belonging to her mum and her grandmother (my Aunt Jessie).
Well we found a wedding photo of Agnes we believe.
It was taken in a studio in Canada around the mid to late 1920’s we think, Agnes was born in 1891 so that would make her in her mid twenties. Of course there was nothing written on the back so no clues but we can not think of anyone else it could be, but we still do not have a married name which we were hoping for.
On to Allen we also found a photo of him with his Aunt in Toronto taken in 1929, we had not even been aware that Allen had an Aunt in Toronto until now her name was Bearnice Mores (not my spelling I would of thought most likely Bernice) this was written on the back of the photo, this was not a studio photo so someone had a camera, but sadly we could not find any other Canadian photos.
While we were chatting we all agreed that we had been told the Uncle Allen served his engineering apprenticeship on the building of the Fourth Rail Bridge that still spans the Firth of Fourth in Scotland linking Edinburgh to fife were my mums family come from originally. Allen’s family are originally from the Scottish borders place called Kelso.
In fact my mum always told me that Allen and his dad built the fourth Rail Bridge, she failed to mention that at its peak, the workforce constructing the bridge reached a total of 4600 so they did have a little help.
Now this brings me on to the Allen that you found, as you wrote.
“In 1931, there were still 4 Allans - one a steelworker, so likely the same person from 1929, worked at Dominion Bridge Company and lived at 944 King St. West with Alec Burns.”
The second AllEn, with an E, was a stationary (or is it stationery) engineer with Dominion Bridge and lived at 186 Garden Avenue in Parkdale - I have a cousin who lives on that street.
Could this be my Allen?? We were all very excited at this link bearing in mind that the Fourth Rail Bridge was the world's first major steel bridge. So working for a steel company in Canada could fit in the jigsaw so all your incredible hard work may off paid off, I have contacted the Fourth Rail Bridge historical society to try and get more details on Allen as the Scottish were great at keeping records I am hoping to find out what sort of engineer he trained as. Or if in deed you did specialize in the late 1800’s when you did engineering.
Now on to Ernest, yes Ernest did return to Scotland as I met him when I was a child and he was quite a character he passed on many years ago his wife’s name was Chrissie and she lived to a grand old age I was very fond of her, she had a lot to put up with I am sure Ernest was not the easiest husband to have. Even thou we children always thought he was great fun to be with.
We did some research on Sunday and we did come across Ernest
We found Ernest returning to Scotland in late 1934 alone, as the rest off the family had left the previous year .He was Deported (every family has to have one, we got Ernest) we are assuming he found it hard to carry on with the depression and no real family support so maybe he was shipped home.
While we were looking through the photos we came across Ernest and Chrissies wedding photo, and it seems that Chrissies maiden name was Roberts .we then went on to search for their wedding, or Chrissies birth in Scotland but we drew a blank so we tried to find Chrissie’s birth using Mrs. Annie Roberts, widow of Joseph (the same people you found living at Ann Street) as her parents but still we drew a blank, so was Aunt Chrissie, a Canadian. I have just ordered a death certificate of a Christine Wilson with the hope it is the right person (we were not able to view it on line) I am interested in whom her parents are.
So maybe the
1928 - 1929 45 Ann Street - Mrs. Annie Roberts, widow of Joseph
May have had a connection.
So we are now trying to contact Ernest and Chrissies grandchildren, they only had one daughter who passed away many years ago and they have two grandchildren, Steven lives and works in Dubai and Christine immigrated with her family to New Zealand many years ago. We hope they can tell us whether their gran was Scottish or Canadian.
Sally ,
I do not know how to thank you for all your detective work, I am so grateful to you for all your help and my whole family are amazed at how much you have found out, I would off replied at the weekend, but the time just ran away with us and I did not have had my log in details with me as I never thought that far ahead .I have now written my log in details down in my dairy so I will always have them to hand in the future
Well my trip to Canada may be sooner rather than later as my sister is very keen on coming now, I think she is getting the bug, this family tree thing is addictive, as my husband can not get time off work until next year. My sister and I are looking at the end of this month; we are hoping it will not be to cold for Niagara Falls and we can hardly wait now, I have left her to find flights and then we can get accommodation sorted once I have confirmed time of from my work,hope my boss is in a good mood . so we are keeping everything crossed.
So thank you again
Liz
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you, however I have been in Scotland visiting my cousin Anne and ploughing our way through old photos belonging to her mum and her grandmother (my Aunt Jessie).
Well we found a wedding photo of Agnes we believe.
It was taken in a studio in Canada around the mid to late 1920’s we think, Agnes was born in 1891 so that would make her in her mid twenties. Of course there was nothing written on the back so no clues but we can not think of anyone else it could be, but we still do not have a married name which we were hoping for.
On to Allen we also found a photo of him with his Aunt in Toronto taken in 1929, we had not even been aware that Allen had an Aunt in Toronto until now her name was Bearnice Mores (not my spelling I would of thought most likely Bernice) this was written on the back of the photo, this was not a studio photo so someone had a camera, but sadly we could not find any other Canadian photos.
While we were chatting we all agreed that we had been told the Uncle Allen served his engineering apprenticeship on the building of the Fourth Rail Bridge that still spans the Firth of Fourth in Scotland linking Edinburgh to fife were my mums family come from originally. Allen’s family are originally from the Scottish borders place called Kelso.
In fact my mum always told me that Allen and his dad built the fourth Rail Bridge, she failed to mention that at its peak, the workforce constructing the bridge reached a total of 4600 so they did have a little help.
Now this brings me on to the Allen that you found, as you wrote.
“In 1931, there were still 4 Allans - one a steelworker, so likely the same person from 1929, worked at Dominion Bridge Company and lived at 944 King St. West with Alec Burns.”
The second AllEn, with an E, was a stationary (or is it stationery) engineer with Dominion Bridge and lived at 186 Garden Avenue in Parkdale - I have a cousin who lives on that street.
Could this be my Allen?? We were all very excited at this link bearing in mind that the Fourth Rail Bridge was the world's first major steel bridge. So working for a steel company in Canada could fit in the jigsaw so all your incredible hard work may off paid off, I have contacted the Fourth Rail Bridge historical society to try and get more details on Allen as the Scottish were great at keeping records I am hoping to find out what sort of engineer he trained as. Or if in deed you did specialize in the late 1800’s when you did engineering.
Now on to Ernest, yes Ernest did return to Scotland as I met him when I was a child and he was quite a character he passed on many years ago his wife’s name was Chrissie and she lived to a grand old age I was very fond of her, she had a lot to put up with I am sure Ernest was not the easiest husband to have. Even thou we children always thought he was great fun to be with.
We did some research on Sunday and we did come across Ernest
We found Ernest returning to Scotland in late 1934 alone, as the rest off the family had left the previous year .He was Deported (every family has to have one, we got Ernest) we are assuming he found it hard to carry on with the depression and no real family support so maybe he was shipped home.
While we were looking through the photos we came across Ernest and Chrissies wedding photo, and it seems that Chrissies maiden name was Roberts .we then went on to search for their wedding, or Chrissies birth in Scotland but we drew a blank so we tried to find Chrissie’s birth using Mrs. Annie Roberts, widow of Joseph (the same people you found living at Ann Street) as her parents but still we drew a blank, so was Aunt Chrissie, a Canadian. I have just ordered a death certificate of a Christine Wilson with the hope it is the right person (we were not able to view it on line) I am interested in whom her parents are.
So maybe the
1928 - 1929 45 Ann Street - Mrs. Annie Roberts, widow of Joseph
May have had a connection.
So we are now trying to contact Ernest and Chrissies grandchildren, they only had one daughter who passed away many years ago and they have two grandchildren, Steven lives and works in Dubai and Christine immigrated with her family to New Zealand many years ago. We hope they can tell us whether their gran was Scottish or Canadian.
Sally ,
I do not know how to thank you for all your detective work, I am so grateful to you for all your help and my whole family are amazed at how much you have found out, I would off replied at the weekend, but the time just ran away with us and I did not have had my log in details with me as I never thought that far ahead .I have now written my log in details down in my dairy so I will always have them to hand in the future
Well my trip to Canada may be sooner rather than later as my sister is very keen on coming now, I think she is getting the bug, this family tree thing is addictive, as my husband can not get time off work until next year. My sister and I are looking at the end of this month; we are hoping it will not be to cold for Niagara Falls and we can hardly wait now, I have left her to find flights and then we can get accommodation sorted once I have confirmed time of from my work,hope my boss is in a good mood . so we are keeping everything crossed.
So thank you again
Liz
Sep 2nd, 2009, 04:05 AM
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You're most welcome.
I've made trips to London where I spent the whole week tracing family in the now-closed Family History Centre, wandering through graveyards, going to public libraries or travelling around England meeting new relatives so know how you and your sister feel about clues to family.
It shouldn't be cold - September is often a warm month...it's started out well.
Perhaps we can meet - I could show you Granby Street, at least, not that it's hard to find. And I could introduce you to the city directories at the reference library if you care to see them. I'm going to be doing some research for an elderly friend, too, and will possibly need to go to the new Archives of Ontario...you need to find out who Agnes married but, if you have a Mormon church near you, you maybe able to find out through their records - they have an amazing amount of information and anyone is able to search at their libraries - I spent many Saturday mornings at Mormon libraries. So check if they have Ontario records.
www.canada411.ca - phone listings for Canada - there are several Mores in Toronto.
Cheers
I've made trips to London where I spent the whole week tracing family in the now-closed Family History Centre, wandering through graveyards, going to public libraries or travelling around England meeting new relatives so know how you and your sister feel about clues to family.
It shouldn't be cold - September is often a warm month...it's started out well.
Perhaps we can meet - I could show you Granby Street, at least, not that it's hard to find. And I could introduce you to the city directories at the reference library if you care to see them. I'm going to be doing some research for an elderly friend, too, and will possibly need to go to the new Archives of Ontario...you need to find out who Agnes married but, if you have a Mormon church near you, you maybe able to find out through their records - they have an amazing amount of information and anyone is able to search at their libraries - I spent many Saturday mornings at Mormon libraries. So check if they have Ontario records.
www.canada411.ca - phone listings for Canada - there are several Mores in Toronto.
Cheers
Sep 2nd, 2009, 06:32 AM
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Hi sally
That is a great idea my sister and I would love to meet up and have a coffee and it is a lovely offer to show us Granby street and introduce us to the city’s directories at the reference library.
if I can get the time off work we have decided to stay at the one king west hotel while we are in Toronto ,even if our mum never went there it sounds like a nice hotel and central.we are becoming really excited.the last time I went searching I ended up in Broughty Ferry Dundee Scotland with my husband and spent many hours wandering around old burial grounds ,we found out loads from that trip .and discovered how lovely that part of Scotland is .
I have spent many afternoons going through the Mormon church’s records as you can do a lot on line now
www.familysearch.org
well I have left my Cousin Anne going through any photos or paperwork we never managed to work or way through.
it is so easy to become distracted by photos you find especially the awful ones of when you were only a small child and you mum made you were that horrible dress,so we had many giggles over the weekend .
so maybe she will come up with something about Agnes
Anyway I will have to go as I have managed to do nothing at all to day ,except for the tree ,looking forward to having a coffee soon and thanks again
Liz
That is a great idea my sister and I would love to meet up and have a coffee and it is a lovely offer to show us Granby street and introduce us to the city’s directories at the reference library.
if I can get the time off work we have decided to stay at the one king west hotel while we are in Toronto ,even if our mum never went there it sounds like a nice hotel and central.we are becoming really excited.the last time I went searching I ended up in Broughty Ferry Dundee Scotland with my husband and spent many hours wandering around old burial grounds ,we found out loads from that trip .and discovered how lovely that part of Scotland is .
I have spent many afternoons going through the Mormon church’s records as you can do a lot on line now
www.familysearch.org
well I have left my Cousin Anne going through any photos or paperwork we never managed to work or way through.
it is so easy to become distracted by photos you find especially the awful ones of when you were only a small child and you mum made you were that horrible dress,so we had many giggles over the weekend .
so maybe she will come up with something about Agnes
Anyway I will have to go as I have managed to do nothing at all to day ,except for the tree ,looking forward to having a coffee soon and thanks again
Liz
Sep 3rd, 2009, 05:52 PM
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Due to taking the wrong bus today, I ended up at the Ontario Archives - checked for a marriage for Agnes Sim from 1923 to 1927 (which is the latest year available) but she wasn't married in those years. So either before 1923 or 1928 which information won't be released till next year - I may be up near the library which has the index fiche (but not the actual registrations) this weekend and if I have time will check earlier years.
Sep 3rd, 2009, 06:42 PM
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gleaner
I had followed the early part of this thread until a few days ago and I am intrigued by the process you and SallyCanuck have worked through. I was in downtown Toronto today for family business and as I drove down Yonge Street I passed One King West and immediately thought of you and your quest. The building looks quite majestic and I am sure you will enjoy your time there.
I will be bold and re-iterate SallyCanuck's invitation for September 26. If you happen to be in Toronto at that time, you and your sister would be very welcome to join the group.
SallyCanuck, what an amazing researcher you are. Awesome job!
tC
I had followed the early part of this thread until a few days ago and I am intrigued by the process you and SallyCanuck have worked through. I was in downtown Toronto today for family business and as I drove down Yonge Street I passed One King West and immediately thought of you and your quest. The building looks quite majestic and I am sure you will enjoy your time there.
I will be bold and re-iterate SallyCanuck's invitation for September 26. If you happen to be in Toronto at that time, you and your sister would be very welcome to join the group.
SallyCanuck, what an amazing researcher you are. Awesome job!
tC
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:58 AM
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hi sally
the get together sounds fun ,i should find out today when i go into work if i am able to have the time of ,my boss is back today and my sister is just waiting to get everything booked .
thanks Sally for checking Agnes marriage,i know what you mean about the errors i have in the past gone off on a complete wild goose chase ,the fishing folk of Broughty ferry inter marry and all it took was a miss spelling and i put me back ages
liz
the get together sounds fun ,i should find out today when i go into work if i am able to have the time of ,my boss is back today and my sister is just waiting to get everything booked .
thanks Sally for checking Agnes marriage,i know what you mean about the errors i have in the past gone off on a complete wild goose chase ,the fishing folk of Broughty ferry inter marry and all it took was a miss spelling and i put me back ages
liz
Sep 7th, 2009, 09:56 AM
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Hi sally
just arrived in from work with the bad news that i am unable to have the dates off that i requested so it looks like the trip is on hold for a while ,so i will miss the get together .I can not tell you how disappointed we are.
we have already booked a holiday for late February in the sunshine .we will be ready for some sunshine by then after a dreary British winter .
So it will be either spring or summer next year before we can get over to Toronto .I think hubby is a little pleased with himself as it was his air miles my sister and I were going to use and also leave him at home with only the dog for company .
So your family are from Leicestershire ,my sister-in-law was born and grew up in a small village about 30 minutes drive outside Leicester,and my brother Richard is a lecturer at De Montfort university in the center of Leicester.They now live close to Northampton as Marie (sister-in-law)works at Northampton university another lecturer.
we drove up to visit them this weekend , a beautiful part of the country ,with its pretty little stone villages .
it was my birthday on Saturday and i received a new camera and a couple of memory cards to go with it ,from my two brother's ready for the trip to Canada.I take it they want picture's as well !
I was thrilled to see that 944 King St West still exists
I had a look at 944 King St.West, on goggle maps ,it is a large building, would it of been made up of apartments in the 1930's?and what is it used for today?well i have noted that one down for a visit as well .i can hardly wait for this trip .
Liz
just arrived in from work with the bad news that i am unable to have the dates off that i requested so it looks like the trip is on hold for a while ,so i will miss the get together .I can not tell you how disappointed we are.
we have already booked a holiday for late February in the sunshine .we will be ready for some sunshine by then after a dreary British winter .
So it will be either spring or summer next year before we can get over to Toronto .I think hubby is a little pleased with himself as it was his air miles my sister and I were going to use and also leave him at home with only the dog for company .
So your family are from Leicestershire ,my sister-in-law was born and grew up in a small village about 30 minutes drive outside Leicester,and my brother Richard is a lecturer at De Montfort university in the center of Leicester.They now live close to Northampton as Marie (sister-in-law)works at Northampton university another lecturer.
we drove up to visit them this weekend , a beautiful part of the country ,with its pretty little stone villages .
it was my birthday on Saturday and i received a new camera and a couple of memory cards to go with it ,from my two brother's ready for the trip to Canada.I take it they want picture's as well !
I was thrilled to see that 944 King St West still exists
I had a look at 944 King St.West, on goggle maps ,it is a large building, would it of been made up of apartments in the 1930's?and what is it used for today?well i have noted that one down for a visit as well .i can hardly wait for this trip .
Liz
Sep 7th, 2009, 06:13 PM
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Oh too bad you can't come - I was looking forward to your visit! And Happy belated birthday.
My mother's birth mother was born in Tilton on the Hill in 1884 - to make a long, long story short, birth mother died in London, Ontario 13 days after giving birth to my mother - her husband placed all 3 of his Canadian children for adoption and went back to England - he was born in Greenwich. What village is your sister-in-law from...I feel I know every village in the area - and in Rutland, too.
Mother was in England only once with me - we spent a day in Leicester (where the birth mother married for the first time and where her siblings lived and died). I now know lots of my English cousins and family who ended up here in Ontario, too, on the Grandfather's side. But still looking for more - one in particular at the moment who doesn't know that his Grandfather was actually raised by his Aunt, not his birth mother, and that birth mother was my mother's mother making them half-siblings, but he isn't in the phone directory at www.bt.co.uk so that's a roadblock to telling him this thrilling news...well, thrilling to me, anyway.
I've been to Leicester several times, once staying several days to search for family at the LRFHS - one time a newly-found cousin drove me around and I took photos of every house family had lived in and then she dropped me at the train station for the trip back to London. Only another person interested in family history would understand anyone doing that.
Now back to 944 King West - that building is called the Palace Arms so likely a bar in there with rooms to rent upstairs. Years ago, you could only serve liquor or beer if the establishment was part of a hotel so rooms would be let upstairs - I suspect most were rather downmarket and still are now but the sign is still up over the door so I think the Palace Arms is still doing it - it seems single men live in these places. Attached to the "Palace" are 3 story houses - there are 4 them - an old man was standing in the doorway of 946 today - I went past on the streetcar again - I expect it was nicer in the 1920s but it has been slightly tarted-up in the past few years as that area has become gentrified but, as I said, I doubt the condo owners go there for a drink. (I hate to say it but it's the kind of place one of my sons would think was worth a visit...he goes to the worst places. I should ask him but if he hasn't been there it might give him the idea to do so.)
So I wrote the above and then found this on the internet - "fine venue for dining, entertainment and lodging" at the Palace Arms?? Hummmm, I'll reserve judgment on that comment. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9326442...7601324687751/ - lots of photos though. But whoever wrote the description spelled Strachan wrong so can we trust him/her? Photo 14.3 shows the houses.
Massey-Harris, farm implements and John Inglis, appliances and likely other products, had factories in the area but not any longer, the Palace Arms probably had the workers from the factories as clients.
The area has newer townhomes and condos as far as the eye can see. Toronto has started naming every single area it seems and that one is called Garrison Creek on the street signs - Garrison Creek http://www.ontariotrails.on.ca/trail...arrison-creek/ has long been buried in pipes underground though. A couple of blocks east, the street signs say Fashion District - practically across the street to the south of the Palace Arms, it's Liberty Village which is a very hip place to live.
Didn't Allen live at 186 Garden Avenue, too? Maybe you can find it?
My mother's birth mother was born in Tilton on the Hill in 1884 - to make a long, long story short, birth mother died in London, Ontario 13 days after giving birth to my mother - her husband placed all 3 of his Canadian children for adoption and went back to England - he was born in Greenwich. What village is your sister-in-law from...I feel I know every village in the area - and in Rutland, too.
Mother was in England only once with me - we spent a day in Leicester (where the birth mother married for the first time and where her siblings lived and died). I now know lots of my English cousins and family who ended up here in Ontario, too, on the Grandfather's side. But still looking for more - one in particular at the moment who doesn't know that his Grandfather was actually raised by his Aunt, not his birth mother, and that birth mother was my mother's mother making them half-siblings, but he isn't in the phone directory at www.bt.co.uk so that's a roadblock to telling him this thrilling news...well, thrilling to me, anyway.
I've been to Leicester several times, once staying several days to search for family at the LRFHS - one time a newly-found cousin drove me around and I took photos of every house family had lived in and then she dropped me at the train station for the trip back to London. Only another person interested in family history would understand anyone doing that.
Now back to 944 King West - that building is called the Palace Arms so likely a bar in there with rooms to rent upstairs. Years ago, you could only serve liquor or beer if the establishment was part of a hotel so rooms would be let upstairs - I suspect most were rather downmarket and still are now but the sign is still up over the door so I think the Palace Arms is still doing it - it seems single men live in these places. Attached to the "Palace" are 3 story houses - there are 4 them - an old man was standing in the doorway of 946 today - I went past on the streetcar again - I expect it was nicer in the 1920s but it has been slightly tarted-up in the past few years as that area has become gentrified but, as I said, I doubt the condo owners go there for a drink. (I hate to say it but it's the kind of place one of my sons would think was worth a visit...he goes to the worst places. I should ask him but if he hasn't been there it might give him the idea to do so.)
So I wrote the above and then found this on the internet - "fine venue for dining, entertainment and lodging" at the Palace Arms?? Hummmm, I'll reserve judgment on that comment. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9326442...7601324687751/ - lots of photos though. But whoever wrote the description spelled Strachan wrong so can we trust him/her? Photo 14.3 shows the houses.
Massey-Harris, farm implements and John Inglis, appliances and likely other products, had factories in the area but not any longer, the Palace Arms probably had the workers from the factories as clients.
The area has newer townhomes and condos as far as the eye can see. Toronto has started naming every single area it seems and that one is called Garrison Creek on the street signs - Garrison Creek http://www.ontariotrails.on.ca/trail...arrison-creek/ has long been buried in pipes underground though. A couple of blocks east, the street signs say Fashion District - practically across the street to the south of the Palace Arms, it's Liberty Village which is a very hip place to live.
Didn't Allen live at 186 Garden Avenue, too? Maybe you can find it?
Sep 8th, 2009, 10:31 AM
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Hi sally
my sister-in -law Marie ,was born in Houghton on the hill ,apparently not to far from were your grandmother was born ,She spent her teenage years in Rothwell and they now live in Weldon Northampton .
I smiled about you taking the photo's of the house's your family had lived in.
i know just what you mean ,i am sure the girls i work with think i am a little mad when i told them i was planning a trip to Canada to try and trace some of my mums journey to Canada and visit the places that she had lived .Having said that, two of them have recently started researching there own trees ,i have warned them it is highly addicted .
It is great that you were able to meet up with your cousins in the UK.and i really hope you make contact with the missing cousin and give him the good news .
Families are just so complicated my mum discovered on her return from Canada that her dad was still alive(she had been told that she and Jessie were orphans ) and an added bonus was she also had an older brother who had stayed with his dad and a younger baby brother from her dad's second marriage .Had she stayed in Canada she may never of known about her brothers.
Thanks for the link to The Palace arms ,it looks like a interesting building ,the little round tower is very cute, the house's are very much what i had pictured of old Canada ,isn't that silly!(i have been watching to many old Canadian T.V. . shows)
However i think i will stick to the One King West Hotel for my stay,even if the Palace Arms offers a " fine venue for dining, entertainment and lodging"
bye for now Liz
my sister-in -law Marie ,was born in Houghton on the hill ,apparently not to far from were your grandmother was born ,She spent her teenage years in Rothwell and they now live in Weldon Northampton .
I smiled about you taking the photo's of the house's your family had lived in.
i know just what you mean ,i am sure the girls i work with think i am a little mad when i told them i was planning a trip to Canada to try and trace some of my mums journey to Canada and visit the places that she had lived .Having said that, two of them have recently started researching there own trees ,i have warned them it is highly addicted .
It is great that you were able to meet up with your cousins in the UK.and i really hope you make contact with the missing cousin and give him the good news .
Families are just so complicated my mum discovered on her return from Canada that her dad was still alive(she had been told that she and Jessie were orphans ) and an added bonus was she also had an older brother who had stayed with his dad and a younger baby brother from her dad's second marriage .Had she stayed in Canada she may never of known about her brothers.
Thanks for the link to The Palace arms ,it looks like a interesting building ,the little round tower is very cute, the house's are very much what i had pictured of old Canada ,isn't that silly!(i have been watching to many old Canadian T.V. . shows)
However i think i will stick to the One King West Hotel for my stay,even if the Palace Arms offers a " fine venue for dining, entertainment and lodging"
bye for now Liz
