Will there be government persecution of Christians for the upcoming Olympics?
May 4th, 2006, 09:16 AM
#1
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Will there be government persecution of Christians for the upcoming Olympics?
IF we attend the Olympics when held in China, are we in danger of being arrested, or cameras confiscated, or other abuses, if we violate unknown rules against human rights?
The easy answer would be no, but what limits are there?
Is one watched if one attends church?
Are there "unofficial" churches which are illegal to attend, as opposed to the "official" churches?
Is one at risk if one hands out a Bible?
How closely is one "watched"? We tend to avoid tours, and explore on our own.
The easy answer would be no, but what limits are there?
Is one watched if one attends church?
Are there "unofficial" churches which are illegal to attend, as opposed to the "official" churches?
Is one at risk if one hands out a Bible?
How closely is one "watched"? We tend to avoid tours, and explore on our own.
May 4th, 2006, 12:44 PM
#2
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Beijing and the Vatican do not recognize each other. There have been some talks between the two recently, but nothing concrete. The Vatican recognizes the Taipei government and not Beijing.
As a result, there are no Roman Catholic church in China. The "Catholic" church there are sanctioned by Beijing and not Vatican. And there are underground services in most cities. I don't know how to find them, and if you don't want to go into a Chinese jail or get deported, maybe you shouldn't find out where they are.
The easiest way to get yourself arrested is to follow the Falun Dafa cult/movement/religion/whatever. But they are not Christians. Or do something like starting to preach on Tiananmen Square. Short of that, you won't have any problem.
And I don't understand what you mean by "if we violate unknown rules against human rights"? Why/how would you violate human rights?
As a result, there are no Roman Catholic church in China. The "Catholic" church there are sanctioned by Beijing and not Vatican. And there are underground services in most cities. I don't know how to find them, and if you don't want to go into a Chinese jail or get deported, maybe you shouldn't find out where they are.
The easiest way to get yourself arrested is to follow the Falun Dafa cult/movement/religion/whatever. But they are not Christians. Or do something like starting to preach on Tiananmen Square. Short of that, you won't have any problem.
And I don't understand what you mean by "if we violate unknown rules against human rights"? Why/how would you violate human rights?
May 4th, 2006, 02:50 PM
#3
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Why focus on the negatives? As a Christian, this could be your shot at martyrdom. By all means hand out some bibles - outside the Great Hall of the People is as good a place as anywhere.
Trust me, you will be watched everywhere. Every time we turned around in Beijing there were people behind us.
Seriously (although I don't know why
)- my understanding is that the Chinese suspicion of Christian missionaries goes back much further than the Taiwan issue. In the past they were seen as agents of the imperialist Western powers that humiliated China. This view wasn't unreasonable in the light of their meddling in Chinese politics. The Jesuits made particular efforts to gain backdoor influence over the State, which may explain why the Roman Catholic church attracted special attention - as did its allegiance to a foreign potentate.
I believe that China's educated ruling classes regarded any form of religion as the province of superstitious peasants. Religious practices didn't bother them as long as they didn't impinge on the social order. Christianity was seen as something different, and as with the ancient Romans the crackdown was a matter of politics, not theology.
Trust me, you will be watched everywhere. Every time we turned around in Beijing there were people behind us.
Seriously (although I don't know why
)- my understanding is that the Chinese suspicion of Christian missionaries goes back much further than the Taiwan issue. In the past they were seen as agents of the imperialist Western powers that humiliated China. This view wasn't unreasonable in the light of their meddling in Chinese politics. The Jesuits made particular efforts to gain backdoor influence over the State, which may explain why the Roman Catholic church attracted special attention - as did its allegiance to a foreign potentate. I believe that China's educated ruling classes regarded any form of religion as the province of superstitious peasants. Religious practices didn't bother them as long as they didn't impinge on the social order. Christianity was seen as something different, and as with the ancient Romans the crackdown was a matter of politics, not theology.
May 4th, 2006, 06:58 PM
#4
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Welcome to China.
Here is some information of churches in Beijing and their service time tabel, hope you enjoy your stay.
http://www.china.org.cn/english/travel/118186.htm
Here is some information of churches in Beijing and their service time tabel, hope you enjoy your stay.
http://www.china.org.cn/english/travel/118186.htm
May 4th, 2006, 07:15 PM
#5
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Neil: "...this could be your shot at martyrdom" LOL!
Tomboy: are you planning to hand out bibles written in English? Most Chinese won't be able to read them.
If you are planning to hand out bibles written in Chinese, make sure they are written in the new abbreviated Chinese characters.
OK, I'll go away now (still chuckling over Neil's comments)
Tomboy: are you planning to hand out bibles written in English? Most Chinese won't be able to read them.
If you are planning to hand out bibles written in Chinese, make sure they are written in the new abbreviated Chinese characters.
OK, I'll go away now (still chuckling over Neil's comments)
May 4th, 2006, 09:47 PM
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You can buy bible (written in Chinese) in any local church everywhere in China. The price is about RMB 12 (USD 1.5).
If you have any question, you may contact "Chinese protestant church" at
http://www.chineseprotestantchurch.org/en/index.htm
If you have any question, you may contact "Chinese protestant church" at
http://www.chineseprotestantchurch.org/en/index.htm
May 4th, 2006, 10:54 PM
#7
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In my humble opinion, one should attend the Olympics to celebrate sportsmanship, dedication and excellence rather than use it an an opportunity for religious evangelism.
Why not visit a foreign country with the main purpose of learning about other cultures and respecting our differences in beliefs and values rather than espousing one's own?
By all means, attend church if you like and take pictures where allowed (there will be signs indicating where no photos are permitted). In my experience, the Chinese are fairly tolerant of Westerners though they may be curious.
Why not visit a foreign country with the main purpose of learning about other cultures and respecting our differences in beliefs and values rather than espousing one's own?
By all means, attend church if you like and take pictures where allowed (there will be signs indicating where no photos are permitted). In my experience, the Chinese are fairly tolerant of Westerners though they may be curious.
May 5th, 2006, 05:34 AM
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And anyone wanting to hand out bibles wants their head examining.
Is that the main reason you are going/thinking of going, tomboy?
Don't you know that imperialism went out of fashion several decades ago - though Americans don't seem to have got the message yet.
Is that the main reason you are going/thinking of going, tomboy?
Don't you know that imperialism went out of fashion several decades ago - though Americans don't seem to have got the message yet.
May 5th, 2006, 03:39 PM
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Well, let's be fair here, fuzzylogic, and make that "some" Americans. And it wasn't the US that was plundering China and hooking its people on opium. Unfortunately, though, the Cold War hysteria of the '40s and '50s resulted in the US misreading the 1949 revolution, as it did many other revolutionary and reform movements in the "third world", further alienating China from the West. My own (Australian) government was, as ever, complicit in some of this.
I don't think we should be taking tomboy too seriously. This is a wind-up and I very much doubt that he/she is planning to go to China or anywhere else.
I don't think we should be taking tomboy too seriously. This is a wind-up and I very much doubt that he/she is planning to go to China or anywhere else.
May 5th, 2006, 03:49 PM
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Yes. There will be persecution. On arrival at the airport, all Christians will be asked to transform a jug of water into red wine and to give a demonstraton of walking on water.
Those who can't, will be nailed to a cross for the duration of the games.
What a bloody silly question.....
Those who can't, will be nailed to a cross for the duration of the games.
What a bloody silly question.....
May 5th, 2006, 04:54 PM
#11
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I forgot to mention, whenever we went walking not only were there Chinese behind us, but in front and on both sides too. And on top of that most of them pretended they couldn't speak English, a dead giveaway.
