Sikkim and Darjeeling Reconsidered
Feb 17th, 2010, 06:51 AM
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Sikkim and Darjeeling Reconsidered
We have just returned from Kauai where one of our “tasks” was to make a decision on our November trip. As some of you may remember, I had done some brainstorming and had come up with Darjeeeling or Assam, and had tentatively decided on Assam. Dogster had encouraged us to think about a Darjeeling/Sikkim combination, (and Sikkim has been on my must-see list even longer than Assam) but the weather seemed too cold to me.
So we spent time reading guidebooks, researching online and talking about it and we both agreed we were more excited about the prospect of Sikkim and Darjeeling. Given our interest in Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhist monasteries and things like the Namgyal Institute of Tibetology look irresistible.
Here’s an outline of our proposed itinerary for 14 nights on the ground in India:
Fly Bangkok to Kolkata, change planes (we would have 2 hours for the transfer), fly on to Bagdogra, arriving 1:20 pm. Transfer to Gangtok by jeep sources say this is a 4 to 4.5 hr. drive.
3 or 4 nights in Gangtok
Jeep transfer to Pelling 5 hours
2 nights in Pelling
Jeep transfer to Darjeeling 5 hours
4 or 5 nights in Darjeeling
Jeep transfer to Bagdogra 3 hours
Flight to Kolkata
4 nights in Kolkata
Flights would be on Jet Airlines.
In Darjeeling and Sikkim, we would stay in the Elgin Hotels. www.elginhotels.com/index.html
So, I have lots of questions.
First, are we crazy to go to Sikkim and Darjeeling at this time of the year? Info on weather (especially for Sikkim) seems to be remarkably unreliable. I find sources that say it’s 7 F in Gangtok, others that say it’s 7 C. That’s quite a difference. I’ve found sources that say it’s colder in Darjeeling than in Sikkim and the reverse.
I’m assuming the places we want to stay do not have central heating. How comfortable/uncomfortable are they in terms of temperature?
Are the air arrangements reasonable? How reliable is Jet? Do they stick to schedules or consider them suggestions?
Any suggestions for a company for ground transport? A well-functioning, comfortable vehicle will be a necessity for this itinerary. And are the transport time I found realistic?
I’d appreciate any thoughts, comments, suggestions, etc.
So we spent time reading guidebooks, researching online and talking about it and we both agreed we were more excited about the prospect of Sikkim and Darjeeling. Given our interest in Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhist monasteries and things like the Namgyal Institute of Tibetology look irresistible.
Here’s an outline of our proposed itinerary for 14 nights on the ground in India:
Fly Bangkok to Kolkata, change planes (we would have 2 hours for the transfer), fly on to Bagdogra, arriving 1:20 pm. Transfer to Gangtok by jeep sources say this is a 4 to 4.5 hr. drive.
3 or 4 nights in Gangtok
Jeep transfer to Pelling 5 hours
2 nights in Pelling
Jeep transfer to Darjeeling 5 hours
4 or 5 nights in Darjeeling
Jeep transfer to Bagdogra 3 hours
Flight to Kolkata
4 nights in Kolkata
Flights would be on Jet Airlines.
In Darjeeling and Sikkim, we would stay in the Elgin Hotels. www.elginhotels.com/index.html
So, I have lots of questions.
First, are we crazy to go to Sikkim and Darjeeling at this time of the year? Info on weather (especially for Sikkim) seems to be remarkably unreliable. I find sources that say it’s 7 F in Gangtok, others that say it’s 7 C. That’s quite a difference. I’ve found sources that say it’s colder in Darjeeling than in Sikkim and the reverse.
I’m assuming the places we want to stay do not have central heating. How comfortable/uncomfortable are they in terms of temperature?
Are the air arrangements reasonable? How reliable is Jet? Do they stick to schedules or consider them suggestions?
Any suggestions for a company for ground transport? A well-functioning, comfortable vehicle will be a necessity for this itinerary. And are the transport time I found realistic?
I’d appreciate any thoughts, comments, suggestions, etc.
Feb 17th, 2010, 08:30 AM
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We just got back from a fantastic 8 day trip to Sikkim...and believe me, the cold is absolutely bearable...and in fact Gangtok is a pleasant 22 degrees centigrade (71 degree F) and not cold by any standards! The only places which were cold (tat too after sunset) were places in North Sikkim which went down to maybe 2 degrees centigrade with daytime of 10-15 degrees C.
We too stayed at Elgin Mt Pandim at Pemayangtse (near Pelling) and its a FANTASTIC heritage property! You'll be bowled by the antique furniture, artefacts, paintings...and to top it all a fantastic location perched on the mountain top surrounded by a lovely garden! None of the hotels in Sikkim have central heating, but they do have electric heaters which is more than adequate (plus hot water bottles that most of these places will give you for bedtime).
Would suggest that rather than staying in Gangtok for 4 days (which is a waste coz Gangtok only requires a day...nothing much to see in town except the Kanchenjunga views and shopping!) you could head to North Sikkim (plan a 3 day trip at Lachen and Lachung) or spend few more days in West Sikkim at Rinchenpong (try Yangsum Farms) or trekking in Varsey or Hilley. Another option is to stay in Kalimpong for a day and try White Water Rafting on the Teesta (again ELgin group has a lovely hotel in Kalimpong). You can stay at Hidden Forest Resort in Gangtok (hiddenforestretreat.com) or Hotel Mayfair.
About ground transport, the timings are perfectly fine. A Scorpio or Innova is suggested for the ground trip. You can contact Mr. Karma of theappleorchardresort.com for ground travel arrangements and for stay at North Sikkim and other places.
I am guessing November would be much less cold than what we experienced...though you might not experience snowfall in North Sikkim that early in winter. But it will be sunnoer than what we experienced in Jan; so perfect for your trip.
Have a good trip and write back if you have any other queries.
We too stayed at Elgin Mt Pandim at Pemayangtse (near Pelling) and its a FANTASTIC heritage property! You'll be bowled by the antique furniture, artefacts, paintings...and to top it all a fantastic location perched on the mountain top surrounded by a lovely garden! None of the hotels in Sikkim have central heating, but they do have electric heaters which is more than adequate (plus hot water bottles that most of these places will give you for bedtime).
Would suggest that rather than staying in Gangtok for 4 days (which is a waste coz Gangtok only requires a day...nothing much to see in town except the Kanchenjunga views and shopping!) you could head to North Sikkim (plan a 3 day trip at Lachen and Lachung) or spend few more days in West Sikkim at Rinchenpong (try Yangsum Farms) or trekking in Varsey or Hilley. Another option is to stay in Kalimpong for a day and try White Water Rafting on the Teesta (again ELgin group has a lovely hotel in Kalimpong). You can stay at Hidden Forest Resort in Gangtok (hiddenforestretreat.com) or Hotel Mayfair.
About ground transport, the timings are perfectly fine. A Scorpio or Innova is suggested for the ground trip. You can contact Mr. Karma of theappleorchardresort.com for ground travel arrangements and for stay at North Sikkim and other places.
I am guessing November would be much less cold than what we experienced...though you might not experience snowfall in North Sikkim that early in winter. But it will be sunnoer than what we experienced in Jan; so perfect for your trip.
Have a good trip and write back if you have any other queries.
Feb 17th, 2010, 10:00 AM
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modeb, thank you so much, this info is really helpful. We'll be there in late November and early December, so it shouldn't be any colder than what you experienced. Many of the weather sites only give an average temp. If the average temp is, say 50, does that mean it varies from 45-55 or from 30-70? It sounds like the latter is true. (good!)
I'm surprised to hear you say that Gangtok is only worth a day. We plan to stay at the Elgin there "Nor-Khill" and visit the Namghal Institute of Tibetology, the Do-Dral Chorten and some of the nearby gompas as well as wandering around the town. If it's 70 during the day, it sounds like the Orchid Sanctuary might be worthwhile as well. Who knows, we might even visit the Himalayan Zoological Park.
We're not trekkers nor are we interested in white-water rafting. We're more interested in cultural things, handicrafts, and visitng Buddhist sites. Given our interests, are there other places in Sikkim besides Gangtok and Pelling you would recommend? I looked at Kalimpong, but didn't see much there. What is your take on it?
I read the thread where you asked about Sikkim - lots of good info there. I look forward to your trip report and to any comments you have on my questions.
I'm surprised to hear you say that Gangtok is only worth a day. We plan to stay at the Elgin there "Nor-Khill" and visit the Namghal Institute of Tibetology, the Do-Dral Chorten and some of the nearby gompas as well as wandering around the town. If it's 70 during the day, it sounds like the Orchid Sanctuary might be worthwhile as well. Who knows, we might even visit the Himalayan Zoological Park.
We're not trekkers nor are we interested in white-water rafting. We're more interested in cultural things, handicrafts, and visitng Buddhist sites. Given our interests, are there other places in Sikkim besides Gangtok and Pelling you would recommend? I looked at Kalimpong, but didn't see much there. What is your take on it?
I read the thread where you asked about Sikkim - lots of good info there. I look forward to your trip report and to any comments you have on my questions.
Feb 17th, 2010, 11:06 AM
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No train? Aren't you going to ride the DHR? (Darjeeling Himalaya Railway - http://www.dhrs.org/ and http://203.176.113.182/DHR/) You should at least have afternoon tea at the Windamere, even if you don't stay there. (If you do stay there, you'll get a hot water bottle to help with the cold, lol.)
Feb 17th, 2010, 11:30 AM
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thrusdays, it was your account that made me think twice about the train! I'm thinking we may do the upper loop - I think they call it the "joy ride" rather than the full-day train ride. The choice of where to stay in Darjeeling comes down to the Windamere or the New Elgin. By the time these plans are finalized, I expect many things will be different!
Feb 17th, 2010, 11:48 AM
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Ooops!! Well, to put a little weight on the other side, I made my still (!) unedited pix from Darjeeling accessible here - http://kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel/Asia-2001 - near the bottom, password "darjeeling". The loop would be better than nothing, though, and if you take the train down the mountain, it would be easiest to take the train on to Kolkata rather than the plane. You might also think about taking it down to Kurseong, and then getting a jeep back up - or on down - Kurseong is less touristy than Darjeeling.
I think you'll be too late for Durga Puja in Kolkata, but you might want to check the dates for that and for Diwali.
I think you'll be too late for Durga Puja in Kolkata, but you might want to check the dates for that and for Diwali.
Feb 17th, 2010, 02:02 PM
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Wonderful photos! Thanks for sharing them.
Your account of the toy train sounded interesting, but since we are traveling with a schedule (one of these days I'll retire and not have to be so concerned about time), the unreliability of the toy train is the problem. I remember checking the train from Kolkata, but I think it was something like 14 hour ride. I'll have to look again.
I know we'll be way too late for Diwali. I'll have to look into other festivals.
Your account of the toy train sounded interesting, but since we are traveling with a schedule (one of these days I'll retire and not have to be so concerned about time), the unreliability of the toy train is the problem. I remember checking the train from Kolkata, but I think it was something like 14 hour ride. I'll have to look again.
I know we'll be way too late for Diwali. I'll have to look into other festivals.
Feb 17th, 2010, 02:12 PM
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hey modeb! Glad it worked out. I too want to see a trip report, eh?
Kathie: I think you'll get more bang for your buck in Darj/Sikkim - but if I might say, your plan is pretty ordinary at the moment. You can do way better. It's a.m. here so I'll regroup later.
But first: investigate the helicopter from Bagdogra to Gangtok. It CAN be done. If Dog can do it, so can you.
Second: what are your thoughts on Glenburn? [I mention this because Glenburn will handle your internal travel gratis - and organise that helicopter flight.]
www.glenburnteaestate.com
Third: In your head, think 3/4 days in the Gantok AREA, similarly Pelling AREA.
For Gangtok area, consider staying here:
www.sikkim.ch/bamboo-resort.html
[right in the Buddha belt - you want monasteries? Stay here.]
For Pelling area, consider this, very carefully:
www.yangsumfarm.com
Jet is perfectly fine. Just throw concerns away on that topic. I've done 40 flights with them within India - I don't recall a single hassle.
On the way between Bagdogra and Darjeeling there's a new-ish property that might be worth a look: they can link you with train to Darj.
www.imperialchai.com/index.html
There is a wonderful way to get from Yangsum Farm/Pelling Area to Glenburn/Darjeeling. Only I know about this. It is a great adventure - but can only be done thru Glenburn.
Kathie: I think you'll get more bang for your buck in Darj/Sikkim - but if I might say, your plan is pretty ordinary at the moment. You can do way better. It's a.m. here so I'll regroup later.
But first: investigate the helicopter from Bagdogra to Gangtok. It CAN be done. If Dog can do it, so can you.
Second: what are your thoughts on Glenburn? [I mention this because Glenburn will handle your internal travel gratis - and organise that helicopter flight.]
www.glenburnteaestate.com
Third: In your head, think 3/4 days in the Gantok AREA, similarly Pelling AREA.
For Gangtok area, consider staying here:
www.sikkim.ch/bamboo-resort.html
[right in the Buddha belt - you want monasteries? Stay here.]
For Pelling area, consider this, very carefully:
www.yangsumfarm.com
Jet is perfectly fine. Just throw concerns away on that topic. I've done 40 flights with them within India - I don't recall a single hassle.
On the way between Bagdogra and Darjeeling there's a new-ish property that might be worth a look: they can link you with train to Darj.
www.imperialchai.com/index.html
There is a wonderful way to get from Yangsum Farm/Pelling Area to Glenburn/Darjeeling. Only I know about this. It is a great adventure - but can only be done thru Glenburn.
Feb 17th, 2010, 02:19 PM
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Many thanks, dogster. I knew you'd have some great ideas. I will spend some time with those links.
BTW, I have organized my thinking around doing Sikkim first, then Darjeeling. Any reason to go the other way? I remembered you took the helicopter transfer - what did you think of it?
I look forward to your ideas.
BTW, I have organized my thinking around doing Sikkim first, then Darjeeling. Any reason to go the other way? I remembered you took the helicopter transfer - what did you think of it?
I look forward to your ideas.
Feb 17th, 2010, 02:46 PM
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Nah, I did it that way round, Kathie. You'll get your monastery fix at the beginning, your nature in the middle and twee British heritage and tea at the end. As a symphony, that sounds fine to me.
The helicopter transfer is SO WONDERFUL and SO CHEAP that I'll keep on about it. You will sink to your knees and thank Dog at the end of that. But that's a place to get some help on the booking: hence Glenburn.
You actually don't need a dedicated car and driver for your whole trip, Kathie. I didn't use one at all - but I craftily used Glenburn's free travel service for the long hops. Frankly, the more local the driver the better in the Rinchenpon/Pelling area. You'll see why.
Your proposed itinerary is very much like mine in broad strokes, so I know your potential territory. A slight lateral tweak might give you what you want. Glorious scenery, Kathie. In Sikkim, big and famous is not necessarily best. The lasting memories are about tiny interactions. It's out of Rumtek that I spent my days bombing around with monks in my car... it's out of Rinchenpong [Yansum] that I spent the most delicious two hours of my life in a tiny monastery filled with monklets, chanting and giggling and praying till the sun came down like a sledgehammer.
The helicopter transfer is SO WONDERFUL and SO CHEAP that I'll keep on about it. You will sink to your knees and thank Dog at the end of that. But that's a place to get some help on the booking: hence Glenburn.
You actually don't need a dedicated car and driver for your whole trip, Kathie. I didn't use one at all - but I craftily used Glenburn's free travel service for the long hops. Frankly, the more local the driver the better in the Rinchenpon/Pelling area. You'll see why.
Your proposed itinerary is very much like mine in broad strokes, so I know your potential territory. A slight lateral tweak might give you what you want. Glorious scenery, Kathie. In Sikkim, big and famous is not necessarily best. The lasting memories are about tiny interactions. It's out of Rumtek that I spent my days bombing around with monks in my car... it's out of Rinchenpong [Yansum] that I spent the most delicious two hours of my life in a tiny monastery filled with monklets, chanting and giggling and praying till the sun came down like a sledgehammer.
Feb 17th, 2010, 06:24 PM
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First let me say that my plan wasn't to have a driver with us all the time, but just ground transfers. The hotels can always set up transport for a day to places we want to see, and we want to spend time at these wonderful heritage properties. The Glenburn's inclusion of transport to and from the estate as part of the room price fits perfectly with this plan.
The Glenburn looks lovely. Would you just stay there or would you spend a couple of nights in Darjeeling? We plan 14 nights on the ground in India and we can be flexible on how to allocate that time. I'm inclined to stick with the Elgin properties in Gangtok and Pelling. However, I read you comment about considering the amount of time in an area, so perhaps a night or two at the Bamboo Resort would be a good addition. But - I don't want to spend all of my time moving around. I want to be able to settle in and experience a place. The Elgin Hotels also offer transfers from one hotel to another (they also have a package that includes sightseeing that is not what we are interested in).
We had planned on 4 nights in Kolkata, but, if necessary we could cut that or even eliminate it if it makes more sense to devote the time to Sikkim and Darjeeling.
So, the Glenburn sets up helicopter transfers. I saw the note about helicopter charters, but no price on the website. Can you give me an estimate? How long is the helicopter transfer from the airport to Gangtok? It would be nice to streamline that part of the trip, as my plan is to overnight at the Bangkok airport after flying from Seattle, then flying onward to Kolkata and then Bagdogra, then to Gangtok in one day. (Yes, I know that part is crazy, but I think it is do-able.)
I look forward to your thoughts about this.
The Glenburn looks lovely. Would you just stay there or would you spend a couple of nights in Darjeeling? We plan 14 nights on the ground in India and we can be flexible on how to allocate that time. I'm inclined to stick with the Elgin properties in Gangtok and Pelling. However, I read you comment about considering the amount of time in an area, so perhaps a night or two at the Bamboo Resort would be a good addition. But - I don't want to spend all of my time moving around. I want to be able to settle in and experience a place. The Elgin Hotels also offer transfers from one hotel to another (they also have a package that includes sightseeing that is not what we are interested in).
We had planned on 4 nights in Kolkata, but, if necessary we could cut that or even eliminate it if it makes more sense to devote the time to Sikkim and Darjeeling.
So, the Glenburn sets up helicopter transfers. I saw the note about helicopter charters, but no price on the website. Can you give me an estimate? How long is the helicopter transfer from the airport to Gangtok? It would be nice to streamline that part of the trip, as my plan is to overnight at the Bangkok airport after flying from Seattle, then flying onward to Kolkata and then Bagdogra, then to Gangtok in one day. (Yes, I know that part is crazy, but I think it is do-able.)
I look forward to your thoughts about this.
Feb 17th, 2010, 07:41 PM
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Don't follow helicopter charters - that's a mega costly private deal into the property. This is an official, STATE SUBSIDISED Sikkim Government helicopter - about 45 mins. WOWIE ZOWIE. But you'll have to plead, not demand. This can be cancelled, rwquisitioned, god only knows what.
As for streamlining - lol. fergeddaboudit. Once you hit Bagdogra anything can and will happen.
Glad you like Glenburn. I spent six days there all up, trapped during a bandh. I see your thinking smart about transfers. Spot on.
As for just staying there and doing Darj on day trips - it's a very nice way to do it. The travel from Glenburn to Darj is up a windy road about 45 minutes [via Ooty - one end of the toy train tourist loop]. They can set up a cool toy train, day trip to the sights thing easy as pie. They also link with Elgin property in Darj.
I'd be inclined to just stay there. It's the lateral way to see Darjeeling - they are totally, 100% professional, discrete, safe, classy, the food is very good, log fires in the rooms, just like the website says.
Setting your trip up thru the Elgins and Glenburn is an easy and classy way to do it. However, it does inevitably mean you will be put thru a soft-sausage machine of assumptions about what you like - bland food, minimal temples, the usual tourist shlep. So you'll have to state your needs.
You won't meet a soul, though - be aware. You'll be tourists and treated as such. You'll go to the tourist things in a relentless procession. Not very many of them are interesting. The damn zoo is like going to Hell. lol. The only way I found to crack thru the natural reserve and get into the monasteries and into the community was thru the homestay places I mentioned. So I'd encourage a diversion, at least once.
On the issue of whether Gantok is worth 4 nights - no, isn't, not remotely. Not even one. lol. The Gangtok AREA is worth three nights but all the places you want to see are actually in the Rumtek area. Gangtok TOWN is very steep and built on a mountain. Trust me, you won't be out wandering - there's nowhere much to go. Quaint, it ain't. Likewise, Pelling is a terrible crap-hole.
So, like Darjeeling, you stay 45 mins out of town in Rumtek and go local. The drive in and out in both instances is delicious. But you're swapping comforts for contacts.
Or you do a bit of both. In town and out.
Either way of traveling there is fine by me.
Glenburn is a very nice experience, slightly dependent on the other guests staying at the time, 'cos of communal dinners. I had some great ones and some shockers. Three or four days there would whizz by. Sure did for me.
Did you see this by the way? Don't abandon Kolkata just yet.
http://www.glenburnteaestate.com/calcutta.html
As you can see, there's a spider's web of connections from Glenburn. Worth following the web. It's all your kinda stuff.
As for streamlining - lol. fergeddaboudit. Once you hit Bagdogra anything can and will happen.
Glad you like Glenburn. I spent six days there all up, trapped during a bandh. I see your thinking smart about transfers. Spot on.
As for just staying there and doing Darj on day trips - it's a very nice way to do it. The travel from Glenburn to Darj is up a windy road about 45 minutes [via Ooty - one end of the toy train tourist loop]. They can set up a cool toy train, day trip to the sights thing easy as pie. They also link with Elgin property in Darj.
I'd be inclined to just stay there. It's the lateral way to see Darjeeling - they are totally, 100% professional, discrete, safe, classy, the food is very good, log fires in the rooms, just like the website says.
Setting your trip up thru the Elgins and Glenburn is an easy and classy way to do it. However, it does inevitably mean you will be put thru a soft-sausage machine of assumptions about what you like - bland food, minimal temples, the usual tourist shlep. So you'll have to state your needs.
You won't meet a soul, though - be aware. You'll be tourists and treated as such. You'll go to the tourist things in a relentless procession. Not very many of them are interesting. The damn zoo is like going to Hell. lol. The only way I found to crack thru the natural reserve and get into the monasteries and into the community was thru the homestay places I mentioned. So I'd encourage a diversion, at least once.
On the issue of whether Gantok is worth 4 nights - no, isn't, not remotely. Not even one. lol. The Gangtok AREA is worth three nights but all the places you want to see are actually in the Rumtek area. Gangtok TOWN is very steep and built on a mountain. Trust me, you won't be out wandering - there's nowhere much to go. Quaint, it ain't. Likewise, Pelling is a terrible crap-hole.
So, like Darjeeling, you stay 45 mins out of town in Rumtek and go local. The drive in and out in both instances is delicious. But you're swapping comforts for contacts.
Or you do a bit of both. In town and out.
Either way of traveling there is fine by me.
Glenburn is a very nice experience, slightly dependent on the other guests staying at the time, 'cos of communal dinners. I had some great ones and some shockers. Three or four days there would whizz by. Sure did for me.
Did you see this by the way? Don't abandon Kolkata just yet.
http://www.glenburnteaestate.com/calcutta.html
As you can see, there's a spider's web of connections from Glenburn. Worth following the web. It's all your kinda stuff.
Feb 18th, 2010, 05:47 AM
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Dogster, you must tell me how to set up the state subsidized helicopter transfer! 45 minutes! Amazing.
I know that if I let the Elgin and Glenburn set up "sightseeing" I won't get to do/see/experience what I have in mind. Thus, my plan to just have them set up transport. Once I'm there I can arrange what I want to see/do/etc.
I understand that the town of Pelling has little to recommend it. We plan to absorb the view and relax in the comfort of the Elgin for two nights.
I love to wander on my own, so that's why I'm thinking about some time in Darjeeling, as opposed to having Glenburn transport me there and back. And I need to do some more thinking/research on Gangtok as I seem convinced there are things to discover if I stay there.
We WANT to go to Kolkata (and yes, I saw the material on the Glenburn site as well as Calcutta Walks). I'm just saying that because Kolkata is more accessible than Sikkim, if we need more time in Sikkim, I can push Kolkata to next trip or cut one or more days fro it.
This is our first trip to India, and I know there will be more. We plan to get the 10 year visas.
Thursdays, we don't leave Seattle until something like Nov 16, so Diwali will be long over by the time we get to Sikkim. Unfortunately, getting our upgraded tickets across the Pacific was more difficult than usual, so our trip is later than usual this year.
I know that if I let the Elgin and Glenburn set up "sightseeing" I won't get to do/see/experience what I have in mind. Thus, my plan to just have them set up transport. Once I'm there I can arrange what I want to see/do/etc.
I understand that the town of Pelling has little to recommend it. We plan to absorb the view and relax in the comfort of the Elgin for two nights.
I love to wander on my own, so that's why I'm thinking about some time in Darjeeling, as opposed to having Glenburn transport me there and back. And I need to do some more thinking/research on Gangtok as I seem convinced there are things to discover if I stay there.
We WANT to go to Kolkata (and yes, I saw the material on the Glenburn site as well as Calcutta Walks). I'm just saying that because Kolkata is more accessible than Sikkim, if we need more time in Sikkim, I can push Kolkata to next trip or cut one or more days fro it.
This is our first trip to India, and I know there will be more. We plan to get the 10 year visas.
Thursdays, we don't leave Seattle until something like Nov 16, so Diwali will be long over by the time we get to Sikkim. Unfortunately, getting our upgraded tickets across the Pacific was more difficult than usual, so our trip is later than usual this year.
Feb 18th, 2010, 07:30 AM
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Well I'm reading that you really like the sound of your Elgin/Glenburn connection. It's a very nifty way to sort it all out. So do that. You're totally in safe hands.
'Gantok' traditionally involves one full day touring thrilling things like the water plant and looking from view points and eating mo-mos, then the dreaded zoo. And a nice little monastery and a boring Ganesh statue where you can dress up in stupid costumes. Oh, and the rattiest market I've ever seen. lol
One full day heading to that big lake I've forgotten the name of, [Tsomgyo?]looking at it and then driving back.
One full day in and around Rumtek monastery, another monastery and another one, a visit to the village of children and stuff. lol.
So that's where your three days goes.
'Gantok' traditionally involves one full day touring thrilling things like the water plant and looking from view points and eating mo-mos, then the dreaded zoo. And a nice little monastery and a boring Ganesh statue where you can dress up in stupid costumes. Oh, and the rattiest market I've ever seen. lol
One full day heading to that big lake I've forgotten the name of, [Tsomgyo?]looking at it and then driving back.
One full day in and around Rumtek monastery, another monastery and another one, a visit to the village of children and stuff. lol.
So that's where your three days goes.
Feb 18th, 2010, 08:43 AM
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Hi Kathie,
Ya Nor-Khill should be very nice. Well, the Bulbuley Zoo is nice I've heard but we didn't get the time to visit. Plus since you would like to visit monasteries - Rumtek & Enchey monasteries can be visited. We being more of the scenery-loving kinds didn't spend much time in Gangtok. As I said, we LOVED North Sikkim because of the scenic beauty so that's one place you might consider. Checkout my trip report on all these places :
http://www.indiamike.com/india/journ...journal&j=9603
Ya Nor-Khill should be very nice. Well, the Bulbuley Zoo is nice I've heard but we didn't get the time to visit. Plus since you would like to visit monasteries - Rumtek & Enchey monasteries can be visited. We being more of the scenery-loving kinds didn't spend much time in Gangtok. As I said, we LOVED North Sikkim because of the scenic beauty so that's one place you might consider. Checkout my trip report on all these places :
http://www.indiamike.com/india/journ...journal&j=9603
Feb 18th, 2010, 09:49 AM
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modeb, thanks for the link to your report. I'll spend some more time with it. It's very useful. Unfortunately, I don't think North Sikkim is obtainable this trip.
Dogster, re: Gangtok: what I like is the idea of comfort! I looked at the photos of the beds at the Bamboo resort... I have arthritic changes in my joints that are much worse in the cold, so if I'm also sleeping on a hard bed, I'll have trouble walking. So if I can see/do/experience the things I want to without the discomfort, I will. If I can't, then I am willing to spend some time at a less comfortable place (knowing that I will pay for it for days). So that's what I'm trying to figure out.
What about the Namghal Institute of Tibetology? I figured that was worth a half a day at least. The Do-Dral Chorten? Any of these worthwhile? I'm guessing you weren't interested in the Orchid Sanctuary, but as an orchid grower, I'd love to see if some of the Cymbidium or Paphiopedilum are in bloom. These are things on my list that are in Gangtok.
The lake really isn't on my list. A few monasteries are. I'd rather spend more time at a few select monasteries rather than a walk-through of many. I had planned to get a driver to take us out to Rumtek, we're not planning on a guide.
So it sounds to me like spending three nights (which is two days) in/around Gangtok is enough. Is that your take? Or, if we opted to stay out by Rumtek, what would you do differently?
Dogster, re: Gangtok: what I like is the idea of comfort! I looked at the photos of the beds at the Bamboo resort... I have arthritic changes in my joints that are much worse in the cold, so if I'm also sleeping on a hard bed, I'll have trouble walking. So if I can see/do/experience the things I want to without the discomfort, I will. If I can't, then I am willing to spend some time at a less comfortable place (knowing that I will pay for it for days). So that's what I'm trying to figure out.
What about the Namghal Institute of Tibetology? I figured that was worth a half a day at least. The Do-Dral Chorten? Any of these worthwhile? I'm guessing you weren't interested in the Orchid Sanctuary, but as an orchid grower, I'd love to see if some of the Cymbidium or Paphiopedilum are in bloom. These are things on my list that are in Gangtok.
The lake really isn't on my list. A few monasteries are. I'd rather spend more time at a few select monasteries rather than a walk-through of many. I had planned to get a driver to take us out to Rumtek, we're not planning on a guide.
So it sounds to me like spending three nights (which is two days) in/around Gangtok is enough. Is that your take? Or, if we opted to stay out by Rumtek, what would you do differently?
Feb 18th, 2010, 03:05 PM
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Then stay in your Elgin/Glenburn nexus, Kathie - add the Oberoi in Kolkata and you are covered!
'...my plan is to overnight at the Bangkok airport after flying from Seattle, then flying onward to Kolkata and then Bagdogra, then to Gangtok in one day....'
I always fly Jet out of BKK, Premiere class, to Kolkata. Very nicely paced flight. Kolkata intl. is small airport, immigration, customs are quick. Do it this way and things are very efficient:
Jet: 9W65 Bangkok - Kolkata 09:20 arr 10:20
Jet Airways Konnect: 9W2480 Kolkata - Badogra 12.20 - 13.20
Premiere class all the way: 20,925 rupees.
Economy all the way: 8,100
Yup, you can get to Gantok in one day. Prepare tho', for a non-helicopter continency, just in case. [Which is a 5 hour++ shlep by road to Gangtok] If that occurs you will have been on the road since say, six thirty that morning till about seven thirty that night. That's a very long travel day for your first day.
I don't know how to book the helicopter other than doing it through Glenburn's office. But it can be done. I am the proof.
I won't bash on about these little properties. I can sense your unease. If you want comfort stay with what you've got plus Glenburn. But we're going to have to give some thought to guides.
I guess I'm wondering about the dynamic when two women rock up unaccompanied to the monastery gates wanting to wander around, maybe meet the main man, see a bit of stuff... maybe it's totally normal.
I haven't been a girl for quite some time. I realise I don't know what the rules are. But I think if you had the RIGHT guide, your monastery days would be richer. You need to find out their daily schedule, any special events or rehearsals goin on. Evening puja is always a regular thing. Some of these monasteries can be deserted during the days. That's a lot less fun.
Namghal Institute of Tibetology is tiny. Beautiful things. Beautiful - but you'd be struggling to spend more than an hour there. You'll only be allowed into the museum bit and maybe a look at the manuscripts if you pre-arrange a scholar's tour. Do-Dral Chorten I didn't get to. You are right - orchids leave me fairly cold.
But no matter your enthusiasm, access to the locals is your key. A monk as a guide is the best, but, of course, they tend not to hire themselves out these days... otherwise you'll be subjected to the 'seven-point-Gangtok-tour', a dispiriting shlep through not very much at all.
An option you could use is to stay one night and two full days at Bamboo Resort: use their manager as your guide [sweet local Bongo] who comes from the district. He'll take you everywhere, in the right way. His brother is a monk at Rumtek. His family lives close by in the Village of Children. You can go meet his mum for tea.
As Gangtok is close, you could do two full days touring with him to get the up-close and personal but spend just one night at the resort. End the second day at the Elgin property.
'...my plan is to overnight at the Bangkok airport after flying from Seattle, then flying onward to Kolkata and then Bagdogra, then to Gangtok in one day....'
I always fly Jet out of BKK, Premiere class, to Kolkata. Very nicely paced flight. Kolkata intl. is small airport, immigration, customs are quick. Do it this way and things are very efficient:
Jet: 9W65 Bangkok - Kolkata 09:20 arr 10:20
Jet Airways Konnect: 9W2480 Kolkata - Badogra 12.20 - 13.20
Premiere class all the way: 20,925 rupees.
Economy all the way: 8,100
Yup, you can get to Gantok in one day. Prepare tho', for a non-helicopter continency, just in case. [Which is a 5 hour++ shlep by road to Gangtok] If that occurs you will have been on the road since say, six thirty that morning till about seven thirty that night. That's a very long travel day for your first day.
I don't know how to book the helicopter other than doing it through Glenburn's office. But it can be done. I am the proof.
I won't bash on about these little properties. I can sense your unease. If you want comfort stay with what you've got plus Glenburn. But we're going to have to give some thought to guides.
I guess I'm wondering about the dynamic when two women rock up unaccompanied to the monastery gates wanting to wander around, maybe meet the main man, see a bit of stuff... maybe it's totally normal.
I haven't been a girl for quite some time. I realise I don't know what the rules are. But I think if you had the RIGHT guide, your monastery days would be richer. You need to find out their daily schedule, any special events or rehearsals goin on. Evening puja is always a regular thing. Some of these monasteries can be deserted during the days. That's a lot less fun.
Namghal Institute of Tibetology is tiny. Beautiful things. Beautiful - but you'd be struggling to spend more than an hour there. You'll only be allowed into the museum bit and maybe a look at the manuscripts if you pre-arrange a scholar's tour. Do-Dral Chorten I didn't get to. You are right - orchids leave me fairly cold.
But no matter your enthusiasm, access to the locals is your key. A monk as a guide is the best, but, of course, they tend not to hire themselves out these days... otherwise you'll be subjected to the 'seven-point-Gangtok-tour', a dispiriting shlep through not very much at all.
An option you could use is to stay one night and two full days at Bamboo Resort: use their manager as your guide [sweet local Bongo] who comes from the district. He'll take you everywhere, in the right way. His brother is a monk at Rumtek. His family lives close by in the Village of Children. You can go meet his mum for tea.
As Gangtok is close, you could do two full days touring with him to get the up-close and personal but spend just one night at the resort. End the second day at the Elgin property.
