Fukushima Facts?
Sep 27th, 2013, 04:52 PM
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Fukushima Facts?
A friend of mine forwarded this link to me today:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/09/...-in-2020/print
Heavy stuff. Not trying to cause a panic. The person that forwarded this to me also predicted the economic end of the world a few years ago. Any thoughts on this, like maybe drink bottled water and don't eat the fish in Tokyo?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/09/...-in-2020/print
Heavy stuff. Not trying to cause a panic. The person that forwarded this to me also predicted the economic end of the world a few years ago. Any thoughts on this, like maybe drink bottled water and don't eat the fish in Tokyo?
Sep 28th, 2013, 01:11 PM
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If you know anything about radioactivity, this article is basically non-information. Yes, there has been radioactive contamination in Japan. But the article gives no information about which radio nucleotides are found in which areas. Saying food has been irradiated is meaningless. Did you know that some of the produce you buy has been irradiated to rid it of bacterial contamination? Drinking water in many countries is irradiated for the same reason. Irradiating food doesn't cause it to become radioactive. There is a difference between the waves passing though something and particles that emit radioactivity being embedded in something. And with radioactive particles, it depends on which nucleotide it is. Some, like plutonium, have very long half-lives, others decay so rapidly that they are quickly gone, decayed into non-radioactive elements.
This article tries at times to sound scientific, but basically it is just-fear-mongering. You will probably have more radiation exposure from your flight to japan that you will get while there... and if you have had an x-ray lately, that will have exposed you to far more radiation.
This article tries at times to sound scientific, but basically it is just-fear-mongering. You will probably have more radiation exposure from your flight to japan that you will get while there... and if you have had an x-ray lately, that will have exposed you to far more radiation.
Sep 28th, 2013, 02:19 PM
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Take your fish to a darker area n see if it glows before u eat it...lol
This culture is one of the few to have been through radiation and nuclear disaster. I feel safe in Tokyo though have yet to venture north to the Fukushima area. Hokkaido crab would be safe hanuman though southern japan is now being polluted by the toxic runoff from Cina's toxic Yellow river. The algae looms r smothering all sea life.....
Aloha!
This culture is one of the few to have been through radiation and nuclear disaster. I feel safe in Tokyo though have yet to venture north to the Fukushima area. Hokkaido crab would be safe hanuman though southern japan is now being polluted by the toxic runoff from Cina's toxic Yellow river. The algae looms r smothering all sea life.....
Aloha!
Sep 28th, 2013, 02:59 PM
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My take on this is that the author is a lone wolf that now has a nuclear disaster that he is using to prove points he has been making for years. As I told my friend (who is more an acquaintance than a friend), I am more concerned about the long term effects of this nuclear "experiment" on the folks in Japan than I am for myself on a short trip. My friend, who by the way has an ME degree from Princeton, knows a thing or two about nukes, so that is why I would pay attention to him at all. He thinks that this is a massive cover-up by the Japanese and American governments and that a large earthquake in the Fukashima area would precipitate a mass exodus from the island, which we could potentially get caught up in and left behind or stuck in Japan, should it occur while we are there. I'm gonna take my chances...
Sep 28th, 2013, 10:45 PM
#12
I am going to suspend judgement on that article. It makes several claims that could be true. The author certainly seems to be a journalist and not scientist.
I assume that the author's mention of irradiated water was referring to contaminated water.
Kathie, you are misusing the word "nucleotide" while criticizing the article for trying to sound scientific. I think the word you want is "isotope".
The article does mention radioactive cesium (cesium 137), strontium 90, and tritium. Those are radioactive isotopes.
He doesn't explain how he knows that only the cesium 137 is being measured. Which is no surprise because that claim happens to be less than true:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/1...a-groundwater/
He also claims that "large amounts of strontium 90 and tritium are spreading all over Japan". How the heck does he know this? He makes that claim immediately after that those isotopes aren't being measured at Fukushima.
He does have a nice colorful graphic with RED ARROWS!! emanating from Fukushima to all of Japan, "no mounains" on the arrow pointing at Tokyo. That doesn't look good! I wonder what it means.
The article is alarmist and loose with facts, but that does not mean there is no issue.
I assume that the author's mention of irradiated water was referring to contaminated water.
Kathie, you are misusing the word "nucleotide" while criticizing the article for trying to sound scientific. I think the word you want is "isotope".
The article does mention radioactive cesium (cesium 137), strontium 90, and tritium. Those are radioactive isotopes.
He doesn't explain how he knows that only the cesium 137 is being measured. Which is no surprise because that claim happens to be less than true:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/1...a-groundwater/
He also claims that "large amounts of strontium 90 and tritium are spreading all over Japan". How the heck does he know this? He makes that claim immediately after that those isotopes aren't being measured at Fukushima.
He does have a nice colorful graphic with RED ARROWS!! emanating from Fukushima to all of Japan, "no mounains" on the arrow pointing at Tokyo. That doesn't look good! I wonder what it means.
The article is alarmist and loose with facts, but that does not mean there is no issue.
Sep 29th, 2013, 06:04 AM
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"My friend, who by the way has an ME degree from Princeton, knows a thing or two about nukes, so that is why I would pay attention to him at all. He thinks that this is a massive cover-up by the Japanese and American governments.."
Craig, I don't dispute that your friend with an ME degree might know something about [nuclear reactors]. However, engineering is one thing, politics another, and conspiracy theories quite another. That one knows something about the first, says nothing about what one knows about the next two. Does your friend serve in your country's embassy to Japan, that he is so well qualified to dispense political opinions? I know something about radioisotopes, having used them in research. I've even recently visited Japan, as you know. That doesn't mean I can start making, with any degree of credibility, what would or wouldn't happen in a country with a broken nuclear reactor, and it certainly doesn't mean any conspiracy theories I might espouse are more or less credible.
****Meanwhile, let us visit your friend's doomsday scenario. I am not saying his scenario is likely, far from it, but <i> if people are worried, they are worried, so let's face the fear head on. </i>
First, regarding panic. If there is one place that knows how to manage crowds, it is Japan. If there is one place where people are disciplined and drilled from childhood, it is Japan. Panic can result from many causes, including fires, earthquakes, and tsunamis, all of which are far more common than nuclear meltdown, and one can be just as dead from smoke inhalation, as from isotope exposure. Personally, if I am ever so unlucky as to get caught in a bad situation, my guess is that my odds of survival are higher in Japan than most other places on the planet, because the population is so disciplined. These people line up on the train platforms every single day. Order is part of their existence. When they hear directions over loudspeakers, they follow them.
Second, as a foreign national, you have somewhere to go to. You don't need to apply to get some country to accept you as a refugee. As for mass exodus remember that Lebanon was evacuated of thousands of expatriates, back when Israel sent its airforce in on some counterterrorism measure, back in the summer of 2006. If memory serves, various ships were chartered, and those expatriates processed and removed quite quickly. So on that basis, you have a reasonable assumption that you would get out, and faster than the citizens of Japan.
Okay, that's it for the theory. In practice, it is hard, I know, to accept that we can't control everything in our lives, but the fact remains, this is as true at home, as elsewhere.
I wish you a happy voyage.
Craig, I don't dispute that your friend with an ME degree might know something about [nuclear reactors]. However, engineering is one thing, politics another, and conspiracy theories quite another. That one knows something about the first, says nothing about what one knows about the next two. Does your friend serve in your country's embassy to Japan, that he is so well qualified to dispense political opinions? I know something about radioisotopes, having used them in research. I've even recently visited Japan, as you know. That doesn't mean I can start making, with any degree of credibility, what would or wouldn't happen in a country with a broken nuclear reactor, and it certainly doesn't mean any conspiracy theories I might espouse are more or less credible.
****Meanwhile, let us visit your friend's doomsday scenario. I am not saying his scenario is likely, far from it, but <i> if people are worried, they are worried, so let's face the fear head on. </i>
First, regarding panic. If there is one place that knows how to manage crowds, it is Japan. If there is one place where people are disciplined and drilled from childhood, it is Japan. Panic can result from many causes, including fires, earthquakes, and tsunamis, all of which are far more common than nuclear meltdown, and one can be just as dead from smoke inhalation, as from isotope exposure. Personally, if I am ever so unlucky as to get caught in a bad situation, my guess is that my odds of survival are higher in Japan than most other places on the planet, because the population is so disciplined. These people line up on the train platforms every single day. Order is part of their existence. When they hear directions over loudspeakers, they follow them.
Second, as a foreign national, you have somewhere to go to. You don't need to apply to get some country to accept you as a refugee. As for mass exodus remember that Lebanon was evacuated of thousands of expatriates, back when Israel sent its airforce in on some counterterrorism measure, back in the summer of 2006. If memory serves, various ships were chartered, and those expatriates processed and removed quite quickly. So on that basis, you have a reasonable assumption that you would get out, and faster than the citizens of Japan.
Okay, that's it for the theory. In practice, it is hard, I know, to accept that we can't control everything in our lives, but the fact remains, this is as true at home, as elsewhere.
I wish you a happy voyage.
Sep 29th, 2013, 06:47 AM
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MrW, you are so right - I meant isotope. Sorry, brain freeze. I would have referred to the guy who wrote the article as a "crackpot" but Craig was much more diplomatic.
Yes, Japan has been dealing with the issues in regard to contamination, but the dangers are primarily in the immediate area of the reactor and the dangers are primarily to the people living in the surrounding area. If Craig were really concerned, her and Jeane could wear dosimeters on their trip... I expect Jeane has or could get some extras. I assume her office staff wears dosimeters.
Yes, Japan has been dealing with the issues in regard to contamination, but the dangers are primarily in the immediate area of the reactor and the dangers are primarily to the people living in the surrounding area. If Craig were really concerned, her and Jeane could wear dosimeters on their trip... I expect Jeane has or could get some extras. I assume her office staff wears dosimeters.
Sep 29th, 2013, 08:46 AM
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Kathie - I think we'll leave the dosimeters at home. Had I not been in such a diplomatic mood, I suppose I could have referred to the article's author as a "nutcase"...
mrw - I totally agree that the article "is alarmist and loose with the facts" and "is not helpful". It certainly raises more questions than it answers and that is why I asked in the OP about drinking water and eating fish (glowing in the dark, or not) in Tokyo.
Sue - From the tone of your post, it appears that you think I give my friend more credibility than I do. I did feel that it was important to share with the readers his educational background and exactly what his take on the article was. Your point about the discipline of the Japanese people is excellent, by the way. I hadn't thought of that.
mrw - I totally agree that the article "is alarmist and loose with the facts" and "is not helpful". It certainly raises more questions than it answers and that is why I asked in the OP about drinking water and eating fish (glowing in the dark, or not) in Tokyo.
Sue - From the tone of your post, it appears that you think I give my friend more credibility than I do. I did feel that it was important to share with the readers his educational background and exactly what his take on the article was. Your point about the discipline of the Japanese people is excellent, by the way. I hadn't thought of that.
Sep 29th, 2013, 10:09 AM
#18
Here is some information about the water supply in Fukushima prefecture. http://www.mhlw.go.jp/english/topics...tersupply.html
The most recent (334th) is dated Sept 6, 2013 and states that there is no water intake restriction. It doesn't say anything about the Tokyo water supply. My guess is that Tokyo has a different water supply.
I think those press releases are where Hirsoe got some of his ammo for his CounterPunch article. The PR from the Ministry of Health only mentions Cs-134 (not good stuff, 2+ year half life) and Cs-137 (bad stuff and 30-year half-life). It does not mention strontium-90 (very bad stuff) or tritium (not good stuff).
So, Hirose wrote that radioactive cesium is the only thing being measured. That is not true according to TEPCO. But it appears to be true that those are the only radioisotopes being reported by the MHLW. The term "Management Target Level" is, um, interesting.
I think the Japanese are just as likely as anyone to freak out about radiation. The politicians are little help, if any. I don't believe Abe when he says it is under control and I don't necessarily believe Inose saying it is not under control.
Not that any of this answers your questions about the safety of water and fish in Tokyo.
The most recent (334th) is dated Sept 6, 2013 and states that there is no water intake restriction. It doesn't say anything about the Tokyo water supply. My guess is that Tokyo has a different water supply.
I think those press releases are where Hirsoe got some of his ammo for his CounterPunch article. The PR from the Ministry of Health only mentions Cs-134 (not good stuff, 2+ year half life) and Cs-137 (bad stuff and 30-year half-life). It does not mention strontium-90 (very bad stuff) or tritium (not good stuff).
So, Hirose wrote that radioactive cesium is the only thing being measured. That is not true according to TEPCO. But it appears to be true that those are the only radioisotopes being reported by the MHLW. The term "Management Target Level" is, um, interesting.
I think the Japanese are just as likely as anyone to freak out about radiation. The politicians are little help, if any. I don't believe Abe when he says it is under control and I don't necessarily believe Inose saying it is not under control.
Not that any of this answers your questions about the safety of water and fish in Tokyo.
Sep 29th, 2013, 10:54 AM
#19
Ok, the Tokyo water supply comes from four rivers (Tone, Ara, Tama, Sagami), all on this map: http://www.water.go.jp/honsya/honsya...a_ta/map1.html
Yunishigawa (in the north part of the map) and Mito (near the coast) are both 80 miles from the Fukushima nuclear power plant.
I don't see how Fukushima would impact the water supply in Tokyo or any part of the Kanto region. The contaminated water just can't there.
Yunishigawa (in the north part of the map) and Mito (near the coast) are both 80 miles from the Fukushima nuclear power plant.
I don't see how Fukushima would impact the water supply in Tokyo or any part of the Kanto region. The contaminated water just can't there.
