tripgirl

Hi all!

Remember me? Planning a 2008 trip to Africa and have come a long way since my first post.

Have narrowed down an itin we are happy with and have gotten down to using one of two operators/agents:

Julian at Timeless Africa ( you all know Julian) highly suggests Little Vumbura; says game viewing is one of the best and place is lovely. We are including Singita on this trip ( lifelong dream, no compromise here) so for the budget we can't exactly fit in the 6 paw camps in Botswana like Vumbura Plains, Mombo, Kings Pool.
Julian ranks the viewing as LV first,
Tuba Tree, Seba and last Kwetsani


The the other agent is Nina Wennersten from Hippo Creek Safaris. She says Kwetsani is infinetly better game viewing and better accommodations. She was just there again ( she has been to africa over 100 times).

So now I am confused as who to believe!

The trip will put us in Botswana at the very end of May. Cape Town is first ( and Cape Grace is our choice, we are not budging from that one either)

So what to think???
Appreciate some answers soon, so we can choose between these two operators.

Thanks a mil...

tripgirl

ttt

Almosthere

I've loved reading Julian's postings over the years, so if I were you I'd search them and you can read for yourself what he has seen on his numerous trips! Does the travel agent you are talking to post her travels? Mine did and that is one reason I went with her; her descriptions and writings were so engaging; I just had to go with it. Research is the key. Good Luck; I am sure you will have a fabulous trip - I am leaving next week! Can't wait. Sam

Africa

Towards the end of 2006, I spent a month in Botswana - staying at 7 different camps.

Kwetsani was my last camp (for 3 nights) and my WORST camp for gameviewing. There were anaimals there but the problem was with the way the activities were run. Late starts and early returns meant very short gamedrives. There was a lack of energy and emphasis on gameviewing - priorities seemed to be the food and accommodation. Also, there was no off-road driving unless the animal was a predator (and you pay a premium for such privileges on a private concession and we only found out when we arrived!!). For me and my wife, gameviewing and photographic opportunities are our number one priority - and sadly we will not be returning to Kwetsani again.

During our month there, we heard rave reviews about Tubu Tree and LV from like-minded guests. We also stayed at other WS camps including Chitabe Trails, Savuti and Duba Plains - and they were all fantastic but Chitabe Trails was just magical!!!

tripgirl

thanks all.

We are really luxury travelers but decided that we'd put all "eggs" into Singita and have more of a "downscale" experience in Botswana( I know it's not really downscale, but for lack of a better word!)

Just want to be sure that the accommodations at Kwetsani are not SO much more luxurious than LV as for the about the same price I would like the nicest accom we can get.

BUT we are coming for game viewing and if you say Kwetsani is not as good LV, I appreciate the input.

Anyone else? also anyone who has stayed at LV since the renovations?

brandywine

Tripgirl,

We were at Little Vumbura two years ago, and the camp was showing its age a little bit, but it was just completely remodeled. It is my understanding that did not mean just new decor in the tents, but completely new larger tents, also new generator, remodeled lounge area, etc. I would guess that since LV is newly renovated, it would now be as nice or even a step above Kwetsani, so I certainly don't think you should make your decision based on which tents are marginally better, or which color scheme is preferred - They are both 5 paw camps. You can see pictures of LV's new tents on the website (www.littlevumbura.com)

LV is DH's favorite camp that we visited, and that is the only camp that we are returning to on this trip (we leave a week from today!).

I have not been to the Jao concession where Kwetsani is located, so no personal experience there, but I believe that the Vumbura concession is generally known for better game viewing. Of course, sometimes it's just the luck of the draw anyway!

Are you just visiting one camp in Botswana?

HariS

Tripgirl,

Why would LV, Tubutree, Kwets and Seba be your ONLY choices in the OKavango?

Btw, Alison had a good trip report from 2006- do a search on these boards. From memory she did Seba, Duma Tau and something in the Chobe i think? She had fantastic things to say about her time at Seba.

Cheers,
Hari

tripgirl

Yes, we are doing only one camp in Botswana; this is the way we want it.

Julian just spoke SO highly about LV and I trust him.

But when Nina poo-pooed it, I had to ask.

Julian also did say Seba was nice.

I was all set for LV until Nina kind of threw a wrench in it.

In any event, Julian and Nina are checking availability so this discussion may be all for naught....

tripgirl

brandywine,

Can you give me more details as to why LV is your DH's favortie. Don't hold back: compare and contrast all the camps in the Delta you've stayed at.

BTW: we are sticking with camps in the Delta , not choosing Linyanti, Selinda or Kalahari areas this first trip.

tripgirl

We are spending our three nights only in Botswana; we are not going from camp to camp here; so we are just choosing ONE!

We are covering Cape Town, Winelands, Joburg and Sabi Sands as well. We like our itinerary; please don't mess with it. Just need oopinions of camps in the Delta.

Africa

If I only had 3 nights and had to choose one camp in the Delta, it would have to be Chitabe Trails. The reasons are:
- small and intimate camp
- superb decor and rooms (following recent refurbishment)
- fantastic food and staff
- the best guide I have ever had in 10 years of safaris (Newman)
- a great location with good gameviewing from the camp and rooms.
- Superb all round gameviewaing with plenty of game - lots of elephants, big buffalo herds, giraffes, zebras etc.
- great for predators (during our 4 night stay we saw lions, 4 different leopards, cheetah and WILD DOGS).

You can't go wrong

atravelynn

If <u>I</u> were choosing only 1 camp in Botswana and the situation was not &quot;money is no obstacle&quot; I think I'd agree with Africa and pick Chitabe.

But there are no water activities in Chitabe. So if you want the well rounded Botswana experience, which includes some time on the water, then for my one camp I'd pick Little Vumbura. Here's why, based on my one visit to Vumbura. Never been to Kwetsani.

Great lion &amp; buffalo activity--even saw a kill.

Good kudu views and pictures.

The elusive sable are present and I did see sable.

Lovely lechwe, wattled cranes.

Leopard and cheetah are commonly seen, though I did not see them.

It offers excellent game viewing along with the optional water activities and is not mainly a water camp with land species being just a lucky bonus.

My last point could be seen as a plus or a minus. With Vumbura Plains and Little Vumbura sharing the same concession, there are more eyes to find good sightings. That also means more traffic, but when I was there, a 3 vehicle max at any sighting was the strict rule. I never witnessed a traffic jam.

tripgirl

atravellyn,

that is why we are heavily leaning thowrds LV: water activites, we love the water!

Trisha1

We had a great time at Kwetsani and saw mating lions, many many elephants, leopards and on the island gigantic herds of zebra.

Accomodations are great in raised thatched cottages (about 12 feet off ground.) and walkways prevented the lions and elephants in camp from attack while walking to meals.

Finally the experiences in the mokoros poling through the hippo highways amdidst the waterlilies, grasses and miniture frogs was not to be missed. There are only 5 cottages and the communal meals are great fun! My husband actually liked this experience
better than other more famous camps.

napamatt

LV has just been renovated, which would likely make the accomodations better than Kwetsani. Game in the area is excellent, at VP last year we saw Cheetah, Lion, Leopard, Wild Cat and Kitten, Sable, Elephants, Hippos. Plus you have lots of water options, in fact you take a boat just to get to camp, which means even a game drive has a water element.

Kavey

I was at LV way back in 2001 and at Tubu Tree in 2004. Luck of the draw, of course, but we had poor game viewing at LV (but loved it for the water activities as it was predominantly a water camp back then and for it's warm, intimate atmosphere) and excellent viewing at Tubu Tree.

Julian is both a friend and a resource here on Fodors that I respect and admire. However, whilst he has been to Africa a number of times, I don't think his visits rack up to the 100 Nina claims. (Though I'd want to know how extensive those trips were and whether she has stayed at any of the camps more than a single night or just breezed through on familiarity trips which don't give a complete picture).

I understand that LV is, nowadays, marketed more strongly for land activities with water as an extra and that game viewing can be pretty good.

But my personal experience backs up the recommendation of Tubu Tree over LV.

As for Kwetsani, I haven't been but am I right in thinking it's fairly close to both Jacana and Tubu Tree? I think Tubu Tree is meant to be better for land activities than Kwetsani from what I have read.

Kavey

Wait, just read your later post about loving water activities... which leads me back to LV.

Firstly, I imagine you already understand that game viewing by water isn't necessarily as good in terms of sightings as land game viewing. It's fabulous for birds, frogs and hippos and you may get some great sightings of elephants, red lechwe and a few other animals. But it's unlikely you'd see predators or animals such as giraffe, zebra, warthog, buffalo from the water. For that last group, game drives are your best bet.

But then again, if you're going to Singita, you might find that you have such fantastic game viewing there that you can focus on the gentler water activities for Botswana.

One of the key things for me about the Okavango Delta is that it's a delta - hey, the crucial element to life in the delta is that water! It's wonderful to glide over that water and just take in the sheer beauty. It's one of the most romantic things I can think of. (Though you might want to take a head net to wear over your hat - keeps the bugs that proliferate at water level out of your nose, mouth and eyes).

You can also do powerboat trips on the water and even fishing - we don't do fishing but spent an afternoon doing so at LV - we and our guide laughed so much - we didn't have a clue what we were doing - Pete did catch a bream but I caught... a snail!!!

I still think game viewing won't be as good in LV BUT if you love water anyway, I'd go for it!

That said, my favourite water camp is now Jacana which we loved even more (if possible) than LV from our first trip. It's water only (at right time of year) and beautiful. It's only 5 paw tents so the accommodation is perfectly comfortable but not luxurious. It's neighbour Jao is meant to be superb (with spa to boot) but from what I overheard they don't focus much on the activities as they get so many guests there who come for the luxury/ spa/ food rather than for the Delta itself. But they offer all the same water activities and are just half an hour by boat from Jacana so in a stunning spot.

bigcountry

little vumbura....if kay is still there guiding, you will get one of the true bush legends. he gave us our most memorable safari moment of my 5 safaris. if you want the essence of the delta, this would be he camp i would recommend

atravelynn

BigCountry,

You can't make a statement like you just wrote with no further explanation. What WAS that most memorable safari experience?

I was thrilled with Z as my guide. Don't know if he is still there.

tripgirl

Kavey,

On that note about Julian...

We have found him to be really terrific so far, spot on about so many things, honest, etc.

I am not sure why this bothers me still though : the fact he has not done this professionally for very long. I know he has good contacts and I trust the trip would run smoothly,
but for the money we are about to dump, I just want to be sure . A post I found here from 2006 indicated that he was still a practicing physician ( teacher and researcher) Any insights from you or anyone who has used Julian professionally??

Nina does impress me with her long lasting career specializing in Africa: 32 yrs. She has been lauded 6 years in a row by Conde Nast and several very flattering articles have been written about her. However, she is so detailed, which is good, but sometimes to the point that &quot;ok, that's enough&quot;. I know her contacts are good.

But there is just something about Julian that I am attracted to, I guess it is his straighforwardness and his knowledge about the region. Nina has this too, but there is something I can't quite explain that has me leaning towards to Julian.

We have our quote from Julian but not from Nina, she will have it next week.

Both have been realy fast on the e mails.

This might boil down to quotes, but I suspect they will come in about the same. Then I will have to choose.

I looked at a few other companies, but frankly I just did not want to deal with so many people. Africa Adventure for example: I spoke with Mark Notling the day after I e mailed him initially. We spoke, he sent out info, I e mailed him with how I'd like to plan this trip. He has not got back to me; It's been a week and neither has any of his staff. This does not necessarily mean anything bad, a week is not long, but Nina and Julian were right there.

Decisions! Again, let me know if anyone has directly booked a trip with Julian and Nina too; alhtough I barely see her name mentioned on Fodors.

In addition: does anyone think there is an advantage of a larger office such as African Aventure vs. Julian and also Nina who it's just her and her partner. Anyone book with both large and small offices and found a difference?