Zion Subway Hike
Sep 12th, 2008, 04:57 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Zion Subway Hike
Hi folks:
Planning a short trip to Zion next summer and hoping to hike the Subway, one way from Wildcat Canyon trailhead down with my wife and kids age 13, 12. We visited last summer and have alredy done Angels Landing, Narrows, etc. My question is that we've never 'canyoneered' before and I was wondering A) would this be too much for my kids and B)are there outfitters who will take us through on a guided tour? Recommendations? I don't think I would feel comfortable us attempting it ourselves. It really looks beautiful to do. Thanks.
Planning a short trip to Zion next summer and hoping to hike the Subway, one way from Wildcat Canyon trailhead down with my wife and kids age 13, 12. We visited last summer and have alredy done Angels Landing, Narrows, etc. My question is that we've never 'canyoneered' before and I was wondering A) would this be too much for my kids and B)are there outfitters who will take us through on a guided tour? Recommendations? I don't think I would feel comfortable us attempting it ourselves. It really looks beautiful to do. Thanks.
Sep 12th, 2008, 05:16 PM
#2
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/subway.htm
Read about it at the above link, and I think the answer to your 2nd question will be obvious.
No way you should do this on your own. It's not a hike, it's a semi-technical canyoneering route. A guide can set you up with the necessary gear and get you through it safely.
Read about it at the above link, and I think the answer to your 2nd question will be obvious.
No way you should do this on your own. It's not a hike, it's a semi-technical canyoneering route. A guide can set you up with the necessary gear and get you through it safely.
Sep 12th, 2008, 06:27 PM
#4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been canyoneering in Arches and I am hoping to go in Zion or Escalnte at some point. My 13 year old didn't have any problems with the most difficult one in Arches. Make sure you do one with some long rappels. Those are the best. Scary the first time for a couple of seconds, then you can't wait for the next one. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS ON YOUR OWN. Zion Adventure Company teaches courses and guides these outside the park, but not inside the park. There are thousands of canyons to explore this way. I would go with them, and I would opt for something a little more adventurous than their family trip. I would guess that weight or being out of shape might be a factor that might warrant the family trip. But, you will want the rappels and as many of them as possible. I would do a full day trip. You will love it. We found it better than rafting the Grand Canyon. Ziplining is a pretty cool thing to do, but canyoneering is a great one as well.
Sep 12th, 2008, 06:34 PM
#5
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
www.deserthighlights.com
this is the company we used in Arches.
www.zionadventures.com
this one for Zion
both companies only do small groups. most likely just your family or perhaps your family and another family of 3 or 4 people would be the most you would have in a group. a lot of the canyons are dry, but a lot of them are wet. really wet canyons are part of the experience, but you could probably ask to do one that is dry. even with the wet canyon, they give you a wetsuit, or even a drysuit. Zion Adventure Company has a segment about them on the Travel Channel. It is called Zion and Bryce uncovered. or something like that. Definately do it. It is fantastic.
this is the company we used in Arches.
www.zionadventures.com
this one for Zion
both companies only do small groups. most likely just your family or perhaps your family and another family of 3 or 4 people would be the most you would have in a group. a lot of the canyons are dry, but a lot of them are wet. really wet canyons are part of the experience, but you could probably ask to do one that is dry. even with the wet canyon, they give you a wetsuit, or even a drysuit. Zion Adventure Company has a segment about them on the Travel Channel. It is called Zion and Bryce uncovered. or something like that. Definately do it. It is fantastic.
Sep 13th, 2008, 07:26 AM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dw,
The Subway is the best "hike" I've ever done. It is not one you can do on your own. Some climbing equipment and a guide are absolutely required. I went with an expert canyoneer friend and without his equipment and instructions, I would not have been able to do it.
We went minimum and swam the water holes in our hiking clothes, boots and all. This was in spring, but summer will probably have lower water levels, so it may not even be an issue. You will still need climbing equipment, not much, but definitely required.
It's a beautiful hike, but not an easy one. 9 mi one way. The last 3 mi. are tough. Bouldering through the dry river bed (the best stair master workout you'll ever have), then finishing with the steepest trail I've ever done back up to the top of the canyon to get out. I was nearly crawling, but it's doable.
A permit is required and they are in great demand. Arrange far in advance with the outfitter so they can apply and be flexible. If you are going in July or August, there is a good chance that thunderstorms will affect your plans.
Listen to the weather reports. Use extreme caution! We just lost a couple people in the Escalante area this week. The park service will not give you a permit if thunderstorms are predicted, that's why they don't issue them more than a day ahead.
Highly recommend, but you need to be in shape and adventureous!
The Subway is the best "hike" I've ever done. It is not one you can do on your own. Some climbing equipment and a guide are absolutely required. I went with an expert canyoneer friend and without his equipment and instructions, I would not have been able to do it.
We went minimum and swam the water holes in our hiking clothes, boots and all. This was in spring, but summer will probably have lower water levels, so it may not even be an issue. You will still need climbing equipment, not much, but definitely required.
It's a beautiful hike, but not an easy one. 9 mi one way. The last 3 mi. are tough. Bouldering through the dry river bed (the best stair master workout you'll ever have), then finishing with the steepest trail I've ever done back up to the top of the canyon to get out. I was nearly crawling, but it's doable.
A permit is required and they are in great demand. Arrange far in advance with the outfitter so they can apply and be flexible. If you are going in July or August, there is a good chance that thunderstorms will affect your plans.
Listen to the weather reports. Use extreme caution! We just lost a couple people in the Escalante area this week. The park service will not give you a permit if thunderstorms are predicted, that's why they don't issue them more than a day ahead.
Highly recommend, but you need to be in shape and adventureous!
Sep 14th, 2008, 01:11 PM
#7
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Commercial guiding is not allowed in Zion. You can take courses from firms outside of the park & rent their equipment but you are on your own. There is no way out from this hike except for the entrance and exit which are many hours apart. Unless you are proficient and go with someone who has been through from the top would suggest either skipping it or walking in from the bottom as far as you can. The Narrows would be a good substitute if you haven't done it.
Sep 14th, 2008, 04:10 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Photodog,
My understanding is that the Subway hike, on one of the river forks, I think it's the south, is just outside the park limits. Even so, the permit is required and very strictly enforced. Isn't it BLM land or Natl Forest? The boundaries zigzag all around in the area.
My understanding is that the Subway hike, on one of the river forks, I think it's the south, is just outside the park limits. Even so, the permit is required and very strictly enforced. Isn't it BLM land or Natl Forest? The boundaries zigzag all around in the area.
Sep 15th, 2008, 04:16 PM
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmm. Thanks for the info and warnings which I will surely heed. Even if 'commercial' guiding is not allowed, I am wondering if negotiating privately with a guide at some of these outfitters (for instance a regular canyoneering guide who would do it on their day off) would be possible? Worth a try or am I getting myself in trouble? Otherwise, we will be out of luck, at least on that part of our trip.
Sep 15th, 2008, 05:37 PM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dw,
The thing is, Springdale, Zion NP, and the canyoneering community is a very tight-knit group. The Rangers, who enforce the regs, and all the local guides (business people) and hard core canyoneering folks, climbers - all know each other on sight.
If the Ranger checking the exit at the end of the route saw you in the company of a local guide, questions would be asked. I don't think any of the local business people will risk their reputations. Not good community relations.
Ask the outfitters where they CAN take you and enjoy. There are thousands of slot canyons to choose from.
The thing is, Springdale, Zion NP, and the canyoneering community is a very tight-knit group. The Rangers, who enforce the regs, and all the local guides (business people) and hard core canyoneering folks, climbers - all know each other on sight.
If the Ranger checking the exit at the end of the route saw you in the company of a local guide, questions would be asked. I don't think any of the local business people will risk their reputations. Not good community relations.
Ask the outfitters where they CAN take you and enjoy. There are thousands of slot canyons to choose from.
Sep 15th, 2008, 05:52 PM
#12
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As Photodog mentioned, you can do this as an out and back hike, entering from what is normally the exit and turning around when the going becomes too difficult/technical for your group. This eliminates the need for a guide and vehicle shuttle. It will still be a difficult hike, but at least you have the option of turning around if you're uncomfortable with an obstacle.
Sep 16th, 2008, 05:03 AM
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Really appreciate the advice you guys. Sounds like the out and back might be the wisest. How far would you guys estimate from the trailhead to get to the subway before turning back? Thanks again.
Sep 16th, 2008, 11:43 AM
#14
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"How far would you guys estimate from the trailhead to get to the subway before turning back?"
Distances and a route description are in the link I provided above. I could do the math and tell you, but you'll get a lot more out of this if you take the time to read it. You're going to need to know what to expect anyway, and there are some landmarks and intersections described that are important to know.
Distances and a route description are in the link I provided above. I could do the math and tell you, but you'll get a lot more out of this if you take the time to read it. You're going to need to know what to expect anyway, and there are some landmarks and intersections described that are important to know.
Sep 17th, 2008, 04:33 PM
#15
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the trailhead it is about 4 miles one way to get to the Subway. There are numerous stream crossings and some scrambling around rocks. Would suggest allowing 3-4 hrs one way. Will have to get a permit the day before from the backcountry office at the visitor center.
Sep 17th, 2008, 04:47 PM
#16
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dw,
Also be aware that the in/out from the bottom is doing the most difficult and least scenic part of the hike twice.
I found the hike down from the top absolutely beautiful and not difficult at all. Even the technical/climbing/swimming parts were easy with the right equip and coaching, but I'm not the timid sort. I actually managed to impress and surprise my friend.
However - the part after the actual Subway formation is hard. Bouldering down the dry creek bed and up the very steep return to the top of the canyon. Hot, no shade, no water.
Also be aware that the in/out from the bottom is doing the most difficult and least scenic part of the hike twice.
I found the hike down from the top absolutely beautiful and not difficult at all. Even the technical/climbing/swimming parts were easy with the right equip and coaching, but I'm not the timid sort. I actually managed to impress and surprise my friend.
However - the part after the actual Subway formation is hard. Bouldering down the dry creek bed and up the very steep return to the top of the canyon. Hot, no shade, no water.
