Yeat another - amended - itineray for us Brits
Mar 17th, 2006, 05:18 AM
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Yeat another - amended - itineray for us Brits
Whew - what a job we are having trying to sort out our trip!
We have taken on board everyone's comments and have tried to rework our itinerary. To give you some background - we initially were just looking for a horse riding trip in Utah - we found the "Hondoo" trip - booked it - and then decided that as we were so far from the UK,and that this area had so much to offer , that we should add on some more days and see a lot more. We absolutely cannot fit it all in with the time we have available - so we quite understand that some "must do" sights will have to be missed out. But which ones ? We are not even attempting to do the Grand Canyon - we are saving that for another trip .
What IS confirmed is that we shall be flying into LAS on 8th September arriving at 2pm, and flying out of LAS on 23rd September at 4pm. We have to meet the riding outfitters in Torrey at 6pm on the evening of the 11th and we finish the ride after breakfast on the morning of the 17th. Apart from those commitments we are free! We want our trip to include the following :
White water rafting; Kayaking; a Navajo experience in Monument Valley and to see the national parks.
I have been told that , out of the two , Bryce is more spectacular than Zion.
SO........
September 8th - arrive LAS drive straight to Springdale. Overnight.
September 9th - Day in Zion - drive to Bryce in the evening. Onight Bryce.
September 10th - full day in Bryce - overnight Bryce.
September 11th - scenic Hway 12 to Torrey to meet our riding hosts at 6pm
September 12 to 17th - riding - ( 3 days based in Torrey and three days based in Boulder -( we finish in Boulder after breakfast on the 17th)
September 17th - drive from Boulder to Moab via the 12/24/I70/128 and Cisco (how long? ) overnight Moab.
September 18th - White water rafting ( this is something we really want to include ) overnight Moab .( I KNOW we won't have time to see Arches but we can't seem to fit it in ! )
September 19th - drive to MV via 261, dugway and Muley point ( how far ?) - overnight MV somewhere ( Gouldings ??)
September 20th am - morning tour of Navajo Park in MV - afternoon drive to Big Water- overnight Dreamkatchers
September 21st kayak - Lake Powell overnight Dreamkatchers
Sepember 22nd - back to Springdale - overnight Springdale
Sepember 23rd - drive back to LAS for our flight home . Phew !
If anyone can improve on this PLEASE DO -as we are going mad with all the possibilities !! thanks ( again ) Chrissie
We have taken on board everyone's comments and have tried to rework our itinerary. To give you some background - we initially were just looking for a horse riding trip in Utah - we found the "Hondoo" trip - booked it - and then decided that as we were so far from the UK,and that this area had so much to offer , that we should add on some more days and see a lot more. We absolutely cannot fit it all in with the time we have available - so we quite understand that some "must do" sights will have to be missed out. But which ones ? We are not even attempting to do the Grand Canyon - we are saving that for another trip .
What IS confirmed is that we shall be flying into LAS on 8th September arriving at 2pm, and flying out of LAS on 23rd September at 4pm. We have to meet the riding outfitters in Torrey at 6pm on the evening of the 11th and we finish the ride after breakfast on the morning of the 17th. Apart from those commitments we are free! We want our trip to include the following :
White water rafting; Kayaking; a Navajo experience in Monument Valley and to see the national parks.
I have been told that , out of the two , Bryce is more spectacular than Zion.
SO........
September 8th - arrive LAS drive straight to Springdale. Overnight.
September 9th - Day in Zion - drive to Bryce in the evening. Onight Bryce.
September 10th - full day in Bryce - overnight Bryce.
September 11th - scenic Hway 12 to Torrey to meet our riding hosts at 6pm
September 12 to 17th - riding - ( 3 days based in Torrey and three days based in Boulder -( we finish in Boulder after breakfast on the 17th)
September 17th - drive from Boulder to Moab via the 12/24/I70/128 and Cisco (how long? ) overnight Moab.
September 18th - White water rafting ( this is something we really want to include ) overnight Moab .( I KNOW we won't have time to see Arches but we can't seem to fit it in ! )
September 19th - drive to MV via 261, dugway and Muley point ( how far ?) - overnight MV somewhere ( Gouldings ??)
September 20th am - morning tour of Navajo Park in MV - afternoon drive to Big Water- overnight Dreamkatchers
September 21st kayak - Lake Powell overnight Dreamkatchers
Sepember 22nd - back to Springdale - overnight Springdale
Sepember 23rd - drive back to LAS for our flight home . Phew !
If anyone can improve on this PLEASE DO -as we are going mad with all the possibilities !! thanks ( again ) Chrissie
Mar 17th, 2006, 07:53 AM
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Hi again Chrissie,
I really hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but it doesn't seem as if you are taking the advice you are receiving here.
Bryce is not more spectacular than Zion, just totally different.
Also, if you drive from Boulder to Moab via Cisco, you will be driving further than necessary. With a trip this rushed, you don't need to do that. Consult your maps.
Other than that, I'll just wish you good luck. You'll enjoy what you see.
I really hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but it doesn't seem as if you are taking the advice you are receiving here.
Bryce is not more spectacular than Zion, just totally different.
Also, if you drive from Boulder to Moab via Cisco, you will be driving further than necessary. With a trip this rushed, you don't need to do that. Consult your maps.
Other than that, I'll just wish you good luck. You'll enjoy what you see.
Mar 17th, 2006, 08:11 AM
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Arches is probably the most spectacular place in Utah, snd I would drop ANYTHING on your itinerary to see it. Lake Powell is not worth visiting at all, in my opinion, especially for a whole day, and especially if you're choosing it over Arches (it's a reservoir that currently has low water levels, giving a very weird, artifical look). Monument Valley as well I would skip-it's a neat place but again, not as neat as Arches. Muley Point, the Dugway...again, not worth skipping Arches for. River rafting is a lot of fun, but the scenery on the one day river trips near Moab isn't worth skipping Arches for. If you are planning on coming back for the Grand Canyon, I would plan a rafting trip then.
Bryce is not more spectacular than Zion. They are both spectacular, just different.
And don't even get me started that you're skipping Dead Horse Point and Canyonlands! You seem to like views-you will not find a better view in the State of Utah than at Dead Horse Point (near Moab), especially for sunrise or sunset.
At the very least, if you are completely set on your itinerary, you could do a half day morning rafting trip near Moab, then spend the afternoon and evening at Arches, then wake up and see the sunrise from Dead Horse Point.
And, the above poster is correct-Cisco is not on the way to Moab from Boulder, and not worth going out of your way to see.
I hope I didn't sound too harsh in this post, but I've been to southern Utah so many times, and I hate to think you're coming all this way and not seeing the best the area has to offer!
Bryce is not more spectacular than Zion. They are both spectacular, just different.
And don't even get me started that you're skipping Dead Horse Point and Canyonlands! You seem to like views-you will not find a better view in the State of Utah than at Dead Horse Point (near Moab), especially for sunrise or sunset.
At the very least, if you are completely set on your itinerary, you could do a half day morning rafting trip near Moab, then spend the afternoon and evening at Arches, then wake up and see the sunrise from Dead Horse Point.
And, the above poster is correct-Cisco is not on the way to Moab from Boulder, and not worth going out of your way to see.
I hope I didn't sound too harsh in this post, but I've been to southern Utah so many times, and I hate to think you're coming all this way and not seeing the best the area has to offer!
Mar 17th, 2006, 08:43 AM
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There is no need to go to Cisco to drive scenic Hwy 128. The best views are on Hwy 128 near Moab so it would be a waste of time. You are going to see the best parts of hwy 128 on the rafting trip so there isn't even a reason to drive out 128 on your own.
If you insist, then that route is 235 miles and will take about 6 1/2 hours to drive. If you skip it then you are looking at about 190 miles & 5 hours drive. I would rather see you spend that extra 1 1/2 hours driving in and out of Arches or going to Canyonlands.
Moab to MV via 261, dugway and Muley point is about 170 miles and will take about 4 hours. If you skip dugway and Muley Point it's about 150 miles and a 3 hour drive.
If you do a quick drive out to Canyonlands on the day you arrive to Moab, you could do a quick drive into Arches on the day you depart Moab and still do your route down to Monument Valley. Once in Arches you might decided that this park is worth giving the dugway and Muley point.
I'm having a hard time understanding why you would skip Arches and Canyonlands Natinonal Parks. Have you been before? If you have been before or plan to come back to spend a lot of time at these places, then I could understand but if you haven't been before and don't plan on coming back, then take our advise and make time for these two parks.
Utahtea
If you insist, then that route is 235 miles and will take about 6 1/2 hours to drive. If you skip it then you are looking at about 190 miles & 5 hours drive. I would rather see you spend that extra 1 1/2 hours driving in and out of Arches or going to Canyonlands.
Moab to MV via 261, dugway and Muley point is about 170 miles and will take about 4 hours. If you skip dugway and Muley Point it's about 150 miles and a 3 hour drive.
If you do a quick drive out to Canyonlands on the day you arrive to Moab, you could do a quick drive into Arches on the day you depart Moab and still do your route down to Monument Valley. Once in Arches you might decided that this park is worth giving the dugway and Muley point.
I'm having a hard time understanding why you would skip Arches and Canyonlands Natinonal Parks. Have you been before? If you have been before or plan to come back to spend a lot of time at these places, then I could understand but if you haven't been before and don't plan on coming back, then take our advise and make time for these two parks.
Utahtea
Mar 17th, 2006, 11:38 AM
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Chrissie,
One more comment, Lake Powell is HUGE!!!! It has something like over 900 miles of shoreline. It is more full now that our drought is over, the water level rose 60 feet last year and is expected to be almost full by the end of spring run off this year.
Lake Powell is beautiful - BUT, going kayaking at Lake Powell will not give you the best kayaking experience, nor the best Lake Powell experience. I don't know how fast you can paddle, but you won't be seeing much more than the marina if you kayak. If you are set on Lake Powell, take the boat ride to Rainbow Bridge. That will allow you to see the most and really get an idea of the size, geography, and history of the area.
And, yes, Lake Powell is a man-made lake so I guess that makes it totally artificial!
One more comment, Lake Powell is HUGE!!!! It has something like over 900 miles of shoreline. It is more full now that our drought is over, the water level rose 60 feet last year and is expected to be almost full by the end of spring run off this year.
Lake Powell is beautiful - BUT, going kayaking at Lake Powell will not give you the best kayaking experience, nor the best Lake Powell experience. I don't know how fast you can paddle, but you won't be seeing much more than the marina if you kayak. If you are set on Lake Powell, take the boat ride to Rainbow Bridge. That will allow you to see the most and really get an idea of the size, geography, and history of the area.
And, yes, Lake Powell is a man-made lake so I guess that makes it totally artificial!
Mar 17th, 2006, 03:28 PM
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I totally agree with Dayle on the Rainbow Bridge boat tour. You will see some beautiful scenery that you will not be able to do in a kayak.
Now Dayle, the lake might be man-made, but those beautiful sandstone bluffs, mesas and desert varnish walls were not!
Utahtea
Now Dayle, the lake might be man-made, but those beautiful sandstone bluffs, mesas and desert varnish walls were not!
Utahtea
Mar 18th, 2006, 07:01 AM
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Hi Utahtea,
Just poking a little fun at one of the above posters who said that since the lake was so low it looked "artificial".
Interestingly enough, since the lake did get so low during our 5 year drought, many people got the chance to see more of what it was like before they built the dam. Under all that water is the greatest concentration of ancient Native American ruins in the US. Unfortunately lost forever.
Just poking a little fun at one of the above posters who said that since the lake was so low it looked "artificial".
Interestingly enough, since the lake did get so low during our 5 year drought, many people got the chance to see more of what it was like before they built the dam. Under all that water is the greatest concentration of ancient Native American ruins in the US. Unfortunately lost forever.
Mar 19th, 2006, 09:06 AM
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That's fine, poke fun. 
Some people do think it's pretty and I wouldn't try to convince them otherwise. I do know many people besides myself that think it's a very strange, sad landscape (all of those gorgeous canyons, and as you point out, archeological sites, flooded, and with a bathtub ring on the canyon walls). I have heard from other who were really surprised to find out it was a reservoir full of houseboats and jetskiiers, rather than the pristine natural wonder they were expecting (some people don't do much research before vacationing), so I wanted to make a case for skipping it in favor of Arches.
Some people do think it's pretty and I wouldn't try to convince them otherwise. I do know many people besides myself that think it's a very strange, sad landscape (all of those gorgeous canyons, and as you point out, archeological sites, flooded, and with a bathtub ring on the canyon walls). I have heard from other who were really surprised to find out it was a reservoir full of houseboats and jetskiiers, rather than the pristine natural wonder they were expecting (some people don't do much research before vacationing), so I wanted to make a case for skipping it in favor of Arches.
Mar 19th, 2006, 05:14 PM
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I agree too. Arches is absolutely one of my favorite places - truly incredible. We have not included Lake Powell in any of our Utah trips yet - it kinda bums us out thinking about all those incredible sunken treasures. I'd never give up time in Arches for it, that's for sure.
Mar 19th, 2006, 06:21 PM
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I for one love Lake Powell. I think it's beautiful weather it's high or low. I wouldn't have flooded the area to make a lake, but it's over and done with and I can still appreciate the beauty that is there.
Utahtea
Utahtea
Mar 20th, 2006, 02:14 AM
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Ahh - have posted a reply ( twice ) but seem to be posting on the wrong forum and am not a wizard at these computer thingies!!
Anyway - my question was - if we miss out the Lake Powell and Monument Valley part of our trip in favour of staying longer in Moab - it seems that we will have no choice but to drive back to LAS via the interstate - either all in one go or breaking it up by staying in an anonymous motel somewhere along the route. We were trying to avoid that and do a scenic circle tour, especially as my guide book (Rough Guide to Utah) says of Muley Point
"quite simply,these are among the most stupendous views in the world" -
and of Monument Valley it says
" may well prove to be the absolute highlight of your trip to the Southwest"
So we take your advice , miss these out completely - stay in Moab for 17/18/19/20 - then which route should we take back to get our flight on 23rd?? Avoiding miles and miles of interstate driving ??
On another question we are finding it difficult to get lodging in the Bryce area. We do not like Motel type places and were thinking of the Red Brick Inn in Panguitch - would give us a taste of "small town USA" and as we are staying 2 nights now in the Bryce area it would not matter so much that it is a few miles from the park . Any comments ??
Anyway - my question was - if we miss out the Lake Powell and Monument Valley part of our trip in favour of staying longer in Moab - it seems that we will have no choice but to drive back to LAS via the interstate - either all in one go or breaking it up by staying in an anonymous motel somewhere along the route. We were trying to avoid that and do a scenic circle tour, especially as my guide book (Rough Guide to Utah) says of Muley Point
"quite simply,these are among the most stupendous views in the world" -
and of Monument Valley it says
" may well prove to be the absolute highlight of your trip to the Southwest"
So we take your advice , miss these out completely - stay in Moab for 17/18/19/20 - then which route should we take back to get our flight on 23rd?? Avoiding miles and miles of interstate driving ??
On another question we are finding it difficult to get lodging in the Bryce area. We do not like Motel type places and were thinking of the Red Brick Inn in Panguitch - would give us a taste of "small town USA" and as we are staying 2 nights now in the Bryce area it would not matter so much that it is a few miles from the park . Any comments ??
Mar 20th, 2006, 04:04 AM
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My initial reaction reading through these posts was that missing Monument Valley would be a crime - I'm with the Rough Guide on that. For me, it was a real highlight of a recent trip I took (which is similar to the one you're planning).
However, you have already decided to give the Grand Canyon a miss and save it for another time and so (very reluctantly), you may find it sensible to save Monument Valley for that same trip. That give you two ideal reasons to re-visit this unique part of the world. Our trip differed from yours in that we did a Las Vegas to Las Vegas loop via Grand Canyon, Canyon de Chelly, Monument Valley, Lake Powell, Bryce and Zion.
Bryce and Zion are very different. I enjoyed both a lot. Bryce was like nowhere else I'd ever seen and the snow-covered hoodoos looked incredible at different times of the day. We found more to do at Zion and for me there was something amazing about being at the top of Angels Landing looking across the canyon (a picture in my mind that will stay with me for a long time).
However, you have already decided to give the Grand Canyon a miss and save it for another time and so (very reluctantly), you may find it sensible to save Monument Valley for that same trip. That give you two ideal reasons to re-visit this unique part of the world. Our trip differed from yours in that we did a Las Vegas to Las Vegas loop via Grand Canyon, Canyon de Chelly, Monument Valley, Lake Powell, Bryce and Zion.
Bryce and Zion are very different. I enjoyed both a lot. Bryce was like nowhere else I'd ever seen and the snow-covered hoodoos looked incredible at different times of the day. We found more to do at Zion and for me there was something amazing about being at the top of Angels Landing looking across the canyon (a picture in my mind that will stay with me for a long time).
Mar 20th, 2006, 05:28 AM
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It sounds like you're set in your plan.
While I would do things differently, I'm sure you'll have a wonderful time.
I'm also sure that you will return to see all the wonders that you missed this time around. We've been to Utah twice for 10 to 12 days each time & still feel the desire to go back again to explore more.
By all means visit Monument Valley...it is stunning.
Have a great trip!
While I would do things differently, I'm sure you'll have a wonderful time.
I'm also sure that you will return to see all the wonders that you missed this time around. We've been to Utah twice for 10 to 12 days each time & still feel the desire to go back again to explore more.
By all means visit Monument Valley...it is stunning.
Have a great trip!
Mar 20th, 2006, 06:53 AM
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I'm going to add my "yes" to what several have said based on just having been in Utah (see my "Back from Arizona: trip report"). Yes, at least drive up into the Arches Nat'l Pk from Moab; yes, Bryce is interesting but not superior to Zion and certainly not the Arches and doesn't need an extra day; yes, Lake Powell likely not worth the time given your busy schedule; yes, river rafting OK from Moab but actually mountain biking and motorcycling big there; yes, 'tis a shame to miss the Grand Canyon which does have excellent river rafting out of Peach Springs.
A comment: you doubtlessly know that driving in the U.S. and especially in the West is so different than in Britain due to the great distances. That's why I do drive though reluctantly on Interstates.
ozarksbill
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A comment: you doubtlessly know that driving in the U.S. and especially in the West is so different than in Britain due to the great distances. That's why I do drive though reluctantly on Interstates.
ozarksbill
[email protected]
Mar 20th, 2006, 08:24 AM
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Chrissie,
I would try to stay in Bryce or at least Tropic if at all possible. The canyon at sunrise will be worth it. Tropic is closer than Panguitch I believe and has beautiful views towards the west of the canyon.
Driving back from Moab on the interstate won't be so bad, especially since you will be doing most of it for the first time. I70 and I15 in southern Utah is a mostly pretty drive. If you do want to break it up, you could try ging back over Hwy 12 and staying at the Boulder Mtn Lodge in Boulder (an excellent place) or going the I15 route, maybe staying in Cedar City, or another night in Zion. Snow Canyon outside of St. George is beautiful too. Perhaps staying overnight at Brianhead ski resort. Condos there are cheap in the summer.
I would try to stay in Bryce or at least Tropic if at all possible. The canyon at sunrise will be worth it. Tropic is closer than Panguitch I believe and has beautiful views towards the west of the canyon.
Driving back from Moab on the interstate won't be so bad, especially since you will be doing most of it for the first time. I70 and I15 in southern Utah is a mostly pretty drive. If you do want to break it up, you could try ging back over Hwy 12 and staying at the Boulder Mtn Lodge in Boulder (an excellent place) or going the I15 route, maybe staying in Cedar City, or another night in Zion. Snow Canyon outside of St. George is beautiful too. Perhaps staying overnight at Brianhead ski resort. Condos there are cheap in the summer.
