Which cities, which NY neighbourhoods?
Mar 11th, 2006, 02:37 AM
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Which cities, which NY neighbourhoods?
In the last few years we gained much valuable info from Fodor fans for holidays in Italy and the UK, so for our big one - the USA - we're trying again.
My wife and I - both well over 60 - are travelling to the USA - for the first time - to follow the Presidential election '08, something I've always wanted to do. I know that is a long way off, but we want to take our time planning something special.
We are coming about 1 Sept and leaving just after election day - about 9 weeks.
Where to stay in New York? My wife has stated that a New York visit is to be not less than two weeks, giving us a good chance to do many of the usual tourist things. We will get a self-catering apartment, but where should we go? One apartment rental firm divides the city up into: East Village, Greenwich Village, Midtown E, Midtown W, Tribeca, Upper East Side, Upper West Side and Uptown. Which should we choose and why? All thoughts would be gratefully received.
Of our remaining time, we want to drive in the Zion National Park area for a week and spend the last week - self-catering apartment again - in San Fransisco. This leaves five weeks or so and we like the idea of a week in each of 5 other cities. Which should we visit and why? Once again, any views that Fodorites have would be very welcome.
My wife and I - both well over 60 - are travelling to the USA - for the first time - to follow the Presidential election '08, something I've always wanted to do. I know that is a long way off, but we want to take our time planning something special.
We are coming about 1 Sept and leaving just after election day - about 9 weeks.
Where to stay in New York? My wife has stated that a New York visit is to be not less than two weeks, giving us a good chance to do many of the usual tourist things. We will get a self-catering apartment, but where should we go? One apartment rental firm divides the city up into: East Village, Greenwich Village, Midtown E, Midtown W, Tribeca, Upper East Side, Upper West Side and Uptown. Which should we choose and why? All thoughts would be gratefully received.
Of our remaining time, we want to drive in the Zion National Park area for a week and spend the last week - self-catering apartment again - in San Fransisco. This leaves five weeks or so and we like the idea of a week in each of 5 other cities. Which should we visit and why? Once again, any views that Fodorites have would be very welcome.
Mar 11th, 2006, 03:54 AM
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Regarding NYC neighborhoods: Midtown would put you closer to most of the classic tourist attractions, but Greenwich Village and the Upper West Side would give you the most feel of being in a neighborhood, which you probably want for a longer stay. If you want a neighborhood where you'll feel comfortable, you'll probably feel too poor in the Upper East Side, too white uptown, and too young in the East Village. But like most cities, neighborhood borders can be ill-defined (especially by estate agents), and neighborhoods can change drastically from one block to the next, so come back here to check specifics before you sign anything.
If you are interested in getting the full impact of the US, especially a national political campaign, then you must visit very different parts of the country; you will find the underlying political climate very similar in NYC and San Francisco. I strongly recommend that you include a city in the Deep South (Atlanta, Birmingham, Nenphis) and one in the Midwestern "flyover states" if you want a full experience of the political process.
If you are interested in getting the full impact of the US, especially a national political campaign, then you must visit very different parts of the country; you will find the underlying political climate very similar in NYC and San Francisco. I strongly recommend that you include a city in the Deep South (Atlanta, Birmingham, Nenphis) and one in the Midwestern "flyover states" if you want a full experience of the political process.
Mar 11th, 2006, 06:44 AM
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I'm not sure what you mean by following the Presidential election. Do you want to see the candidates speak in person?
The states with the largest number of electoral votes in the electoral college(and therefore most important to the outcome of the election) are
California
New York
Texas
Florida
Pennsylvania
Details here
http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...df/RL30527.pdf
As to neighborhoods in NYC, in your shoes I'd consider splitting a 2 week stay in 2 different locations, one uptown (probably upper east or upper west side) and one downtown location... that, depending on your tastes and apt. availability.
Don't know which rental firm you've contacted. Nyhabitat.com has done well for several Fodorites. www.apartments2book.com is a London co. who, I've heard, gets very good prices for NY places but many of their apts are actually apt/hotels with the benefit of daily maid service etc. Just remember agents don't always identify a location totatlly accurately. They will use the most glamorous definition
and certain neighborhoods will have more/better apts. available than others. For best value and comfort, I'd pay as much attention to the apt itself as to the neighborhood.
One idea that might interest you is staying in a "hosted" apt. (ie staying with someone in their apt.) If you get the right host, you can get a real inside view of things. citylightsnewyork.com is a co. that arranges this. I've seen several people rave about staying with someone in Murray Hill (midtown, east 30s).
I'd just strongly urge you not to use a firm called Woogo also trading under the names urbanstay or yourstay.
The states with the largest number of electoral votes in the electoral college(and therefore most important to the outcome of the election) are
California
New York
Texas
Florida
Pennsylvania
Details here
http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...df/RL30527.pdf
As to neighborhoods in NYC, in your shoes I'd consider splitting a 2 week stay in 2 different locations, one uptown (probably upper east or upper west side) and one downtown location... that, depending on your tastes and apt. availability.
Don't know which rental firm you've contacted. Nyhabitat.com has done well for several Fodorites. www.apartments2book.com is a London co. who, I've heard, gets very good prices for NY places but many of their apts are actually apt/hotels with the benefit of daily maid service etc. Just remember agents don't always identify a location totatlly accurately. They will use the most glamorous definition
and certain neighborhoods will have more/better apts. available than others. For best value and comfort, I'd pay as much attention to the apt itself as to the neighborhood.One idea that might interest you is staying in a "hosted" apt. (ie staying with someone in their apt.) If you get the right host, you can get a real inside view of things. citylightsnewyork.com is a co. that arranges this. I've seen several people rave about staying with someone in Murray Hill (midtown, east 30s).
I'd just strongly urge you not to use a firm called Woogo also trading under the names urbanstay or yourstay.
Mar 11th, 2006, 10:12 AM
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To live like a real New Yorker without breaking the bank - and given your ages I would suggest either the upper west side or the village. Both are very diverse, walkable, have tons of great inexpensive restaurants and cultural attractions (museums uptown, off broadway theater downtown) and will be much more affordable - and real - than midtown.
Mar 11th, 2006, 10:19 AM
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One other note - although NYC is diverse in many ways - if you;re following the elections you'll find NYC unlike most of the rest of the country. Most areas are VERY heavily democratic (in my district last election the congressional candidate that came in second was Socialist Worker and the Republicans usually don;t bother to field a candidate) and most Reublicans here would be considered Democrats or liberals in a lot of other places.
The two elimination issues are reproductive rights and strong gun control - without supporting those issues someone's chance of being elected anything is practically nil - Democrat or Republican.
The two elimination issues are reproductive rights and strong gun control - without supporting those issues someone's chance of being elected anything is practically nil - Democrat or Republican.
Mar 11th, 2006, 10:26 AM
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The states with the greatest populations, and hence number of electoral votes, are not always the most interesting to be in. If a state is almost certainly going to go for one candidate or the other, then both candidates will likely pay less attention to that state, and more attention to states that are "swing" or borderline states -- the ones where the polls show that investing their time, money, and energy could influence enough votes to change the outcome in that state.
Because of this, sometimes the medium-sized states, or those with less-pronounced politics, end up getting the biggest advertising budgets per capita and celebrity campaign visits.
Because of this, sometimes the medium-sized states, or those with less-pronounced politics, end up getting the biggest advertising budgets per capita and celebrity campaign visits.
Mar 12th, 2006, 01:18 AM
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Thanks to all who have replied to my questions. The answers were most useful, particularly the idea of spending time in two NY neighbourhoods.
On the other question, could we disentangle the election issue? We can follow that from anywhere in the USA and I would not be expecting to see any candidates. Can we get opinions on the city question?
Given that we are planning visits to NY and to San Fransisco and have 5 more weeks to allocate to 5 cities, which cities should we consider.....and why?
On the other question, could we disentangle the election issue? We can follow that from anywhere in the USA and I would not be expecting to see any candidates. Can we get opinions on the city question?
Given that we are planning visits to NY and to San Fransisco and have 5 more weeks to allocate to 5 cities, which cities should we consider.....and why?
Mar 12th, 2006, 01:34 AM
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If you are coming here to follow the Presidential election, you have the best chance of actully seeing the candidates and how they present themselves through advertising by visiting the important "swing states" -- that is, states with large electorates that may swing left or right, and therefore are hotly contested by the candidates.
In recent years, those states have included Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida, sometimes Illinois. I live in a state that reliably votes Democratic, and during the last Presidential election, I never saw a single ad for either candidate on TV! Neither Bush or Kerry thought it was worth spending any time or money in my state.
Beyond the Presidential election, understanding American politics requires getting away from the coasts.
Some places I might visit to better understand how Americans think are Phoenix, Denver, Atlanta, Seattle and Houston. And while San Francisco is pretty, it is Los Angeles that dominates American culture.
No doubt you will want to spend some time in DC as well.
Just about any New York neighborhood will do, but the upper west side is one of the few places remaining in New York where I still encounter strangers wanting to strike up a conversation in a cafe or coffee shop.
While you are in New York, see if you can find a way to get inside a television newsroom. That will really open your eyes about the American political process.
In fact, you might think about contacting some of the major TV news organizations here -- CBS News, ABC News, NBC News, CNN -- and tell them what you are planning to do. They might want to follow you around and do a running story about you over the entire course of the campaign.
In recent years, those states have included Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida, sometimes Illinois. I live in a state that reliably votes Democratic, and during the last Presidential election, I never saw a single ad for either candidate on TV! Neither Bush or Kerry thought it was worth spending any time or money in my state.
Beyond the Presidential election, understanding American politics requires getting away from the coasts.
Some places I might visit to better understand how Americans think are Phoenix, Denver, Atlanta, Seattle and Houston. And while San Francisco is pretty, it is Los Angeles that dominates American culture.
No doubt you will want to spend some time in DC as well.
Just about any New York neighborhood will do, but the upper west side is one of the few places remaining in New York where I still encounter strangers wanting to strike up a conversation in a cafe or coffee shop.
While you are in New York, see if you can find a way to get inside a television newsroom. That will really open your eyes about the American political process.
In fact, you might think about contacting some of the major TV news organizations here -- CBS News, ABC News, NBC News, CNN -- and tell them what you are planning to do. They might want to follow you around and do a running story about you over the entire course of the campaign.
Mar 12th, 2006, 01:39 AM
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The reasons I suggest Phoenix, Denver, Atlanta, Seattle and Houston is that all are places with large suburban cultures where people are trying to pursue a new American Dream, and that is how Americans make visible their political thinking, by trying to grab onto what they think is their piece of the pie.
In the swing states, it almost doesn't matter which city you visit. Some of the more interesting ones are Miami, Orlando, Philadelphia, Cleveland and Chicago.
In the swing states, it almost doesn't matter which city you visit. Some of the more interesting ones are Miami, Orlando, Philadelphia, Cleveland and Chicago.
Mar 12th, 2006, 01:41 AM
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Oh -- and how could we all forget?
You'll never understand what America is today unless you visit Las Vegas. It's become our signature American city. While you're there, try going to church as well as the strip shows, visit the public schools and the casinos where their parents work.
You'll never understand what America is today unless you visit Las Vegas. It's become our signature American city. While you're there, try going to church as well as the strip shows, visit the public schools and the casinos where their parents work.
Mar 12th, 2006, 01:52 AM
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Once you say "could we disentangle the election issue? We can follow that from anywhere in the USA and I would not be expecting to see any candidates." I don't know how you'd like us to pick cities. If not on any basis related to the election, are you looking for most tourist worthy? There are also a lot of cities I think would be worthwhile to see, but not sure I'd want to spend a whole week there. You've got to give us some other measures.
Mar 12th, 2006, 02:32 AM
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If you really think that the election campaign can be experienced independently of your location, then you're going to learn a LOT about the American election process!
You can watch the US national-newscast television coverage by investing in a cable or satellite television connection and save yourself the cost of the trip. The only way the trip will be related to the election campaign is if you travel to different regions and locations that see the candidates and campaign issues from different perspectives.
If you can't explain the concepts of "electoral college" and "red and blue states," then I suggest that your next bit of trip research should be to learn all about those fundamental aspects of US elections.
Many of the cities that have been suggested here (including Denver, Las Vegas, and Seattle) are thriving and growing rapidly, and have many new residents (moving into the growing suburbs mentioned above) who lived somewhere-else until recently. The reason that in one of my earlier posts I mentioned the "flyover states" is that you'll get an interesting insight into American culture by visiting a city that's relatively stable, too.
You can watch the US national-newscast television coverage by investing in a cable or satellite television connection and save yourself the cost of the trip. The only way the trip will be related to the election campaign is if you travel to different regions and locations that see the candidates and campaign issues from different perspectives.
If you can't explain the concepts of "electoral college" and "red and blue states," then I suggest that your next bit of trip research should be to learn all about those fundamental aspects of US elections.
Many of the cities that have been suggested here (including Denver, Las Vegas, and Seattle) are thriving and growing rapidly, and have many new residents (moving into the growing suburbs mentioned above) who lived somewhere-else until recently. The reason that in one of my earlier posts I mentioned the "flyover states" is that you'll get an interesting insight into American culture by visiting a city that's relatively stable, too.
Mar 12th, 2006, 02:34 AM
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This thread is getting confusing. Let's go back to the original post. What exactly do you mean by "follow the presidential election '08"? Since you've always wanted to do this, you must be able to clarify it for us. Do you mean observing the mass media (TV, newspaper), talking to your neighbors. what is it that you expect to do or experience here that you couldn't do at home?
Mar 12th, 2006, 05:04 AM
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I love this post! Interesting concept, and great answers full of super, detailed info about NYC.
Not to do with the election, but it seems to me you might want to visit New England before/after NYC. It's a great time of year to visit the NH/Maine coast, or take a drive through the Woodstock/Queechee area of Vermont. A rather central area to these places is Manchester/Concord area in New Hampshire, which is also a little over an hour to Boston or Boston's "northshore," which is an interesting and picturesque area.
Good luck with your trip, Tassie! Sounds great!
Not to do with the election, but it seems to me you might want to visit New England before/after NYC. It's a great time of year to visit the NH/Maine coast, or take a drive through the Woodstock/Queechee area of Vermont. A rather central area to these places is Manchester/Concord area in New Hampshire, which is also a little over an hour to Boston or Boston's "northshore," which is an interesting and picturesque area.
Good luck with your trip, Tassie! Sounds great!
Mar 12th, 2006, 07:39 AM
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From OP: "On the other question, could we disentangle the election issue?" and "Given that we are planning visits to NY and to San Fransisco and have 5 more weeks to allocate to 5 cities, which cities should we consider.....and why?"
Since you have replied asking to "disentangle" the election issue, but you are still wondering about other cities, I'd ask what sort of cities do you like?
Many people will recommend Las Vegas, but some people (myself included) detest Las Vegas.
Similarly, I don't know why anyone would go to Phoenix (unless it was to see the Arizona countryside which is lovely, or to visit my in-laws, but Phoenix is boring and awful). But this is a matter of opinion and what you are looking for in a city.
I'd recommend Boston to any first time USA visitor as I think of it as both historical and hip.
Too many US cities are just sprawlville places now without anything much unique about them (seen one you've seen them all). So, you might have to more clearly define what it is you want to do here.
Since you have replied asking to "disentangle" the election issue, but you are still wondering about other cities, I'd ask what sort of cities do you like?
Many people will recommend Las Vegas, but some people (myself included) detest Las Vegas.
Similarly, I don't know why anyone would go to Phoenix (unless it was to see the Arizona countryside which is lovely, or to visit my in-laws, but Phoenix is boring and awful). But this is a matter of opinion and what you are looking for in a city.
I'd recommend Boston to any first time USA visitor as I think of it as both historical and hip.
Too many US cities are just sprawlville places now without anything much unique about them (seen one you've seen them all). So, you might have to more clearly define what it is you want to do here.
