And after having asked the question: "Really, you can't rent your own apartment to someone if you want to?" please, in spite of your level of unfamiliarity with NYC housing laws and the NYC DOB, expect and accept that the answer is, for all practical purposes, "No".

When you rent an apartment you sign a lease based on very specific regulations. It is NOT your apartment - it is the landlord's apartment and they (subject to local laws) get to set the rules.

The same is true of co-op and condo boards (who are elected by the tenants).

I dont; see what there is not to understand.

Suppose when your son or daughter went away to college they decided to rent out their room to a stranger to make a profit - without telling you - and giving that person the run of your house. Would you be OK with that?

Well - illegally renting out an apartment here is the same thing.

Now do you understand?

Ah, but nytraveler, your analogy falls apart if the person actually owns their apartment. I could rent my house out to whomever I wanted, and take tenants too as long as I didn't violate maximum tenancy rules. It is a bit strange that it's the city (and not Condo boards or neighborhood HOAs) not allowing weekly rentals. Probably because they want the tax revenue from legitimate vacation rentals.

Actually, now that I think about it, there is no such thing as a vacation rental in NYC is there? Now that is a bit strange. Think about other cities, like San Diego and Tahoe, where vacation rentals are common. I guess NYC really wants people to only stay in hotels.

There are a number of reasons why short-term rentals are prohibited, and not only in apartment buildings in NYC --- one of which is to collect more hotel tax. FWIW, there are places that regulate short-term rentals even in single-family homes --- Maui comes to mind --- in order to preserve the permanent residents lifestyle -- i.e. living in a real neighborhood, and not a transient one.

"Ah, but nytraveler, your analogy falls apart if the person actually owns their apartment."

I don't think her analogy falls apartment because she clearly states: "The same is true of co-op and condo boards (who are elected by the tenants)"

I can't believe I typed "I don't think her analogy falls apartment" instead of apart

I might add that certainly one of the reasons for that law in NYC is because there were so many con jobs/illegal actions concerning apartment rentals.

I live in a NYC apartment house with about 100 apartments. I certainly would not want these apartments rented out by the week to anybody who answers an ad. What security would I have living here? Very scary idea! Part of multiple housing is the idea that "somebody" has qualified the people living here. Who would you like to meet in the hallway at night while you are putting out the trash? or in the elevator coming home late at night? Living in a big city is different from single family housing.

But it IS the condo and co-op boards that specifically ban ANY sublets without approval of the board. And that means the board gets to review the financials of the (long-term) tenants with a fee for the renter - and bans short-term sublets.

Why you refuse to believe that people don;t want strangers wandering around their houses I don;t know. Did you read my analogy? And co-op/condo ownership is subject to a lease - signed before purchase - stating all of these rules.

Would you be happy with strangers living in one of your bedrooms?

nytraveler, I don't disagree with the whole concept of it being wrong to rent out an apartment illegally and for many of the reasons you and others have stated, but please tell me you don't honestly believe having a stranger live in one of your bedrooms inside your apartment is JUST LIKE a stranger living in an apartment next door off a hallway with a locked door between you and them! You keep saying it's the same thing, and surely you don't honestly believe that. It may be horrible and frightening to encounter a stranger in your hallway, but surely you don't consider that the same as encountering one inside your own apartment!

I think some people from outside New York would also have trouble understanding that, not only can you not rent out your place on a short-term basis, but you also cannot just buy any apartment that you like in any building, even if you have the money to do so...



So if would-be buyers have to jump through the hoops to buy an apartment in many coops, it stands to reason that the same buildings would not allow just anyone to move in on a short term rental basis.

Not sure if this is the case elsewhere, but grown men have been known to quake in their boots at the thought of a coop board interview.

It is not horrible and frightening to encounter a stranger in the hallway. It would be very frustrating - since you know nothing about the person, what they are doing there, and what their business is. They might be a tourist, they might be a thief or a drug dealer - or they might just be someone who is very careless about building security - potentially letting anyone into the building.

Granted my example is a TINY bit overstated. We do have locks on our apartment front door. But a stranger in the building could let in others who are lurking on the stairs or in the incinerator room. About 15 years ago some apparently didn't shut the front door fully and a bum wandered into the building. My next door neighbor went to throw her trash in the incinerator at around midnight and opened the compacter room door to find a bum sleeping there - who started yelling at her and jumped up. She made it back to her apartment and called the police who came, searched, found the bum - wandering the stairs - and hauled him out. After that we increased our security to prevent a recurrence. Having strange "travelers" in the building would completely defeat that attempt to keep our home secure. And instead of a bum that person could have been a thief - or worse. And strange
travelers" are unlikely to be as aware of the need for building security or as careful as residents.

We did not pay a large sum of money for an apartment and significant monthly maintenance to be surprised by bums - or wore - at midnight when throwing out trash or recyclables in the hallway outside our apartment.

Yes, I agree with all you say, I was just a little taken aback by your comparisons of a stranger living in another apartment in the building and someone living in a person's guest bedroom!
One good thing is that at least in your situation residents do have some choice about who lives next to them. In many places, anyone can move in next door and a single family home owner has NO control over that, even if they are something like a known child molester!

It still seems strange to me that the CITY is banning the rentals, though, not the individual condo boards. It would make more sense (and be more like the rest of the country) if it were a condo board/HOA decision. The fact that it's the city makes it seem more about revenue than quality of life in any one building.

Sublets are already prohibited by most coop boards in Manhattan, as far as I know...without the express permission of the board.

I don't know Monica. Many cities pass all kinds of laws regarding everything from safety factors and zoning issues within buildings to various building codes some of which are not even about safety, but just aesthetics or "quality of life" within the buildings. So it's not a stretch that the city would pass a rule like this. But I do think the issue of short term rentals is harder to control in a condo than it is in a coop.

Cities control lots of aspects of housing, such as occupancy, rent control in some cities, density, so it really isn't strange unless you don't live in a city of any size.

New York City is NOT like the rest of the country.

We have very strong rent control/stabilization laws that mandate what rents landlords can charge for many apartments. I believe the rules are for apartments under $2000 per month in which the tenant has lived for a certain number of years. In return for the landlords having their rents controlled (small increases are allowed, which are determined by law by the NYC Rent Stabilization Board) there are very strict rules about occupancy. For instance, to qualify for occupancy one of these apartments it MUST be your primary residence and you cannot sublet it. If the tenants don't qualify then the landlord gets to charge market rate for apartment.

I'm not aware of any other cities that have these types of rules. In return for artificially low rents (I know it doesn't sound like it - but many hundreds of thousands of apartments rent at below market value) tenants have to follow restrictive laws.

But, I would be very surprised if rental leases anywhere allow tenants to sublet apartments without the approval of the landlord.

Yes, but there's a big difference between subletting a rental apartment and leasing a condominium that is owned by a particular owner.