Superferry
Sep 10th, 2007 | 05:06 PM
#101
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,025
Likes: 0
Am article in Sunday's Honolulu Advertiser.
Once again confirms a sweetheart deal.
Other than a couple of minor instances, other companies were required to provide an EA.
So the Superferry & the Lingle Administration lied about that.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...709090361.html
Today's hearings are still in session.
Once again confirms a sweetheart deal.
Other than a couple of minor instances, other companies were required to provide an EA.
So the Superferry & the Lingle Administration lied about that.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...709090361.html
Today's hearings are still in session.
Sep 11th, 2007 | 08:45 AM
#102
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 0
MelissaH:
<wave!> 8-)
FYI -- the majority of us who live on Kaua`i are DEFINITELY anti-growth on this island and wish that a building moratorium would be enacted. As for tourism, this island too quickly has forgotten the lessons taught by the airline strike and Hurricane `Iniki -- we need to NOT be a tourism-focused island.
BTW, Lee Cataluna's column in today's Honolulu Advertiser does an excellent job of expressing the concerns of Kaua`i residents, with regard the SuperFerry:
http://tinyurl.com/32cpz2
<wave!> 8-)
FYI -- the majority of us who live on Kaua`i are DEFINITELY anti-growth on this island and wish that a building moratorium would be enacted. As for tourism, this island too quickly has forgotten the lessons taught by the airline strike and Hurricane `Iniki -- we need to NOT be a tourism-focused island.
BTW, Lee Cataluna's column in today's Honolulu Advertiser does an excellent job of expressing the concerns of Kaua`i residents, with regard the SuperFerry:
http://tinyurl.com/32cpz2
Sep 11th, 2007 | 09:16 AM
#103
Guest
Posts: n/a
aloha one and all,
it is great to hear differing opinions here regarding something close to all our hearts. I have learnt much from both supporters and foes of the supper ferry.
I am still a foe, but as an occasional guest, I defer to the locals on this decision. What is best for the people, what is best for the island. Auntie makes a very valid point regarding Kauai. I do not know anyone who supports the out of control growth. Well said auntie.
Thanks auntie for sharing that article.
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot SPOT
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don't know what you’ve got
‘Til it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
They took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to seem 'em
Don't it always seem to go,
That you don't know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
Hey farmer, farmer
Put away that DDT now
Give me spots on my apples
But LEAVE me the birds and the bees
Please!
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you’ve got
‘Til its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
Late last night
I heard the screen door slam
And a big yellow taxi
Took away my old man
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
I said
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
How telling that Joni Mitchell wrote those words a few years ago.
I have met many that miss the old oahu, the old maui, now I am meeting people that miss the old kauai. Molokai has good reason to remain protective of the tourism industry. They have learnt from expample.
Aloha one and all!
it is great to hear differing opinions here regarding something close to all our hearts. I have learnt much from both supporters and foes of the supper ferry.
I am still a foe, but as an occasional guest, I defer to the locals on this decision. What is best for the people, what is best for the island. Auntie makes a very valid point regarding Kauai. I do not know anyone who supports the out of control growth. Well said auntie.
Thanks auntie for sharing that article.
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot SPOT
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don't know what you’ve got
‘Til it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
They took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to seem 'em
Don't it always seem to go,
That you don't know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
Hey farmer, farmer
Put away that DDT now
Give me spots on my apples
But LEAVE me the birds and the bees
Please!
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you’ve got
‘Til its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
Late last night
I heard the screen door slam
And a big yellow taxi
Took away my old man
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
I said
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
How telling that Joni Mitchell wrote those words a few years ago.
I have met many that miss the old oahu, the old maui, now I am meeting people that miss the old kauai. Molokai has good reason to remain protective of the tourism industry. They have learnt from expample.
Aloha one and all!
Sep 11th, 2007 | 10:40 AM
#104
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,159
Likes: 0
Yes, we would all like to live on a "private" island. However, Hawaii has historically been against such western ideas of keeping "other people" out after we ourselves have comfortably moved in.
Hawaii welcomed people from America and other foreign countries with open arms. Personally, I think that was a mistake for the natives to do, but as I said above, if a protester is not native they have no standing to complain for they themselves - and their ancestors before them - benefitted from this openess.
Hawaii beaches are all public. There are no private beaches. (Is this idea unique to Hawaii?). Even private developments must ensure there is public access to beaches.
Native hunting and gathering rights are still protected in Hawaii, even on privately owned land. So long as that land is "less than fully developed" a private land owner cannot prevent traditional hunting and gathering on the property.
These subject are not per se relevant to the ferry. But I wanted to point them out because I think a lot of people forget that Hawaii has traditionally been AGAINST the type of ideas expressed here - that is, the idea that people who moved here first have some right to tell others not to do exactly what they themselves did (move here), or that certain areas can dictate to other Hawaii residents where they can and cannot visit.
I also believe that residents are a greater strain on the environment than day visitors.
At any rate, I , too, would love to have a private island - but Kauai is not private, and never will be. It's part of the state and gets all the benefits (and the liabilities) that go with it.
Hawaii welcomed people from America and other foreign countries with open arms. Personally, I think that was a mistake for the natives to do, but as I said above, if a protester is not native they have no standing to complain for they themselves - and their ancestors before them - benefitted from this openess.
Hawaii beaches are all public. There are no private beaches. (Is this idea unique to Hawaii?). Even private developments must ensure there is public access to beaches.
Native hunting and gathering rights are still protected in Hawaii, even on privately owned land. So long as that land is "less than fully developed" a private land owner cannot prevent traditional hunting and gathering on the property.
These subject are not per se relevant to the ferry. But I wanted to point them out because I think a lot of people forget that Hawaii has traditionally been AGAINST the type of ideas expressed here - that is, the idea that people who moved here first have some right to tell others not to do exactly what they themselves did (move here), or that certain areas can dictate to other Hawaii residents where they can and cannot visit.
I also believe that residents are a greater strain on the environment than day visitors.
At any rate, I , too, would love to have a private island - but Kauai is not private, and never will be. It's part of the state and gets all the benefits (and the liabilities) that go with it.
Sep 11th, 2007 | 06:37 PM
#109
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,412
Likes: 0
Love the sentiment but you cannot live in the past.
I can hear some of the Kauai residents arguments but they do not own the island and the island is not theirs to have as their own as much as they feel they do, sorry.
No matter what they say it is not THEIRS,it is all of OURS.
They are at fault for their islands traffic, drug, social and growth problems and all of the other problems they endure because they are the ones who are so selfish that they would rather have it all for themselves and not share with anyone and always resist any change.
They want to have their cake and eat it to but want everyone else to share in paying for their shortcomings. In fact they demand it as US citizens. Nothing wrong with that but what it reminds me of is the movie Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory and the character Baruka Smultz(sp) and her famous song that goes:
"Don't care how I want it now."
How dare the locals pound on other kama ainas cars and tell them they cannot travel to THEIR island in the manner they feel comfortable?
I know, it's not politically correct to say but true all the same.
Some of the residents of Kauai(a very vocal few) feel that it is their island and are using any argument they can to keep Kauai the same Kauai they have know all their lives. Arguably noble but a very selfish attitude as the island is a part of the US that we all pay for and belongs to every citizen and not only a select few.
I often wonder how a resident of Kauai would feel i they got the same treatment in say Salem, Oregon? Guaranteed suits would fly and the mantra would be prejudice.
How many of your hometowns are the same as you were when you grew up?
The selfish mantra is "we don't want to see Kauai go the way of Oahu and Maui".
I fully expect to be flamed on this one but only by the selfish few.
I wonder what Kauai really would do if they really got their wish and were isolated and independent?
Time for the Kauai residents to grow up and face the 21st century and stop living FOR and IN the past.
Let the arrows fly!
Aloha Pumehana!
I can hear some of the Kauai residents arguments but they do not own the island and the island is not theirs to have as their own as much as they feel they do, sorry.
No matter what they say it is not THEIRS,it is all of OURS.
They are at fault for their islands traffic, drug, social and growth problems and all of the other problems they endure because they are the ones who are so selfish that they would rather have it all for themselves and not share with anyone and always resist any change.
They want to have their cake and eat it to but want everyone else to share in paying for their shortcomings. In fact they demand it as US citizens. Nothing wrong with that but what it reminds me of is the movie Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory and the character Baruka Smultz(sp) and her famous song that goes:
"Don't care how I want it now."
How dare the locals pound on other kama ainas cars and tell them they cannot travel to THEIR island in the manner they feel comfortable?
I know, it's not politically correct to say but true all the same.
Some of the residents of Kauai(a very vocal few) feel that it is their island and are using any argument they can to keep Kauai the same Kauai they have know all their lives. Arguably noble but a very selfish attitude as the island is a part of the US that we all pay for and belongs to every citizen and not only a select few.
I often wonder how a resident of Kauai would feel i they got the same treatment in say Salem, Oregon? Guaranteed suits would fly and the mantra would be prejudice.
How many of your hometowns are the same as you were when you grew up?
The selfish mantra is "we don't want to see Kauai go the way of Oahu and Maui".
I fully expect to be flamed on this one but only by the selfish few.
I wonder what Kauai really would do if they really got their wish and were isolated and independent?
Time for the Kauai residents to grow up and face the 21st century and stop living FOR and IN the past.
Let the arrows fly!
Aloha Pumehana!
Sep 11th, 2007 | 07:17 PM
#110
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,025
Likes: 0
Update on hearing:
Hearing got underway on Monday. 30 witnesses for opposition are scheduled to testify.
One witness for opposition testified on Monday.
Tuesday - Four more opposition witnesses testified.
At this rate, it will take a week before all opposition witnesses testify.
Then the Superferry will have its witnesses. I don't know how many they have scheduled.
So don't expect any outcome from the hearing for a couple of weeks.
Hearing got underway on Monday. 30 witnesses for opposition are scheduled to testify.
One witness for opposition testified on Monday.
Tuesday - Four more opposition witnesses testified.
At this rate, it will take a week before all opposition witnesses testify.
Then the Superferry will have its witnesses. I don't know how many they have scheduled.
So don't expect any outcome from the hearing for a couple of weeks.
Sep 11th, 2007 | 07:54 PM
#112
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,025
Likes: 0
Not that I know of. Seems like a peaceful hearing so far. But I only get what is in the newspapers or on evening news on TV.
My prediction of the witnesses is that it will be a draw.
For each opposition witness that makes claims, the Superferry will have a witness that will say the opposite.
My prediction of the witnesses is that it will be a draw.
For each opposition witness that makes claims, the Superferry will have a witness that will say the opposite.
Sep 12th, 2007 | 07:26 AM
#114
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 589
Likes: 0
Dusty,
You seem to have some surprising anger issues. Over a simple ferry boat. I’m sorry.
Your posts also make frequent accusations with absolutely no proof (and betray a strange fascination with back pockets):
“They & their politicians blocked attempts for an EIS for years”
“Just because they have the politicians in their pocket.”
“they and the politicians they have in their back pocket have stonewalled”
“they had politicians in their back pocket”
“Get politicians in their back pockets and get what they want with no regard to the consequences”
“Lingle in their back pocket”
The Superferry appears to be a relatively small start-up company. All of their assets have been poured into the construction of two advanced vessels. Anyone with a television can see how your friends’ illegal and threatening actions have blocked the ferry from its routes. What is much less obvious is any evidence that your careless accusations about bribes and corruption are true. I don’t know where a small start-up company with zero revenues (thanks to your friends) got the cash to make these illegal bribes you accuse them of. I think that it is much more likely that many politicians support the Superferry because, like most of the rest of us, they realize how much of a boost to Hawaii’s economy and attractiveness as a vacation destination the Superferry could be. If your friends would let it.
Mahalo,
Bob
You seem to have some surprising anger issues. Over a simple ferry boat. I’m sorry.
Your posts also make frequent accusations with absolutely no proof (and betray a strange fascination with back pockets):
“They & their politicians blocked attempts for an EIS for years”
“Just because they have the politicians in their pocket.”
“they and the politicians they have in their back pocket have stonewalled”
“they had politicians in their back pocket”
“Get politicians in their back pockets and get what they want with no regard to the consequences”
“Lingle in their back pocket”
The Superferry appears to be a relatively small start-up company. All of their assets have been poured into the construction of two advanced vessels. Anyone with a television can see how your friends’ illegal and threatening actions have blocked the ferry from its routes. What is much less obvious is any evidence that your careless accusations about bribes and corruption are true. I don’t know where a small start-up company with zero revenues (thanks to your friends) got the cash to make these illegal bribes you accuse them of. I think that it is much more likely that many politicians support the Superferry because, like most of the rest of us, they realize how much of a boost to Hawaii’s economy and attractiveness as a vacation destination the Superferry could be. If your friends would let it.
Mahalo,
Bob
Sep 12th, 2007 | 12:36 PM
#115
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,025
Likes: 0
Bob
Did you read some of the articles?
There is the Lingle Administration spending $40 million for the Superferry.
There are $140 million in guaranteed federal loans. The Superferry owners put up very little of their own $$$.
If the Superferry is allowed to operate, their rates are higher than flying to other islands. That will mean pouring millions of taxpayer dollars to try to keep it afloat.
There is the Lingle Administration giving the Superferry an EA exemption.
There is the Lingle Administration & the Superferry claiming that the Superferry is being singled out for an EA & that the state has never required an EA for other companies. They have gotten the press to parrot the information. They have gotten much of the public to parrot the claims. And yet other than on a few minor occasions, the other shipping companies have indeed had to provide an EA. The Lingle Administration lied about the state never having required an EA in the past.
In 2005, groups started to take the Superferry to court simply to have them address the environmental issues. The Superferry has fought any attempt to get them to address the issues.
The "simple ferry boat" wants to operate at 40 MPH in an area where there are whales.
What is there that is so hard for you to understand that people are upset over the Superferry issue?
Did you read some of the articles?
There is the Lingle Administration spending $40 million for the Superferry.
There are $140 million in guaranteed federal loans. The Superferry owners put up very little of their own $$$.
If the Superferry is allowed to operate, their rates are higher than flying to other islands. That will mean pouring millions of taxpayer dollars to try to keep it afloat.
There is the Lingle Administration giving the Superferry an EA exemption.
There is the Lingle Administration & the Superferry claiming that the Superferry is being singled out for an EA & that the state has never required an EA for other companies. They have gotten the press to parrot the information. They have gotten much of the public to parrot the claims. And yet other than on a few minor occasions, the other shipping companies have indeed had to provide an EA. The Lingle Administration lied about the state never having required an EA in the past.
In 2005, groups started to take the Superferry to court simply to have them address the environmental issues. The Superferry has fought any attempt to get them to address the issues.
The "simple ferry boat" wants to operate at 40 MPH in an area where there are whales.
What is there that is so hard for you to understand that people are upset over the Superferry issue?
Sep 12th, 2007 | 01:20 PM
#116
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Seeing that this thread is still going I just have to throw my two cents in.
I think the money may have been better spent on reducing the traffic jam during rushhour either the train idea or the ferry.
Also does anyone know if the Superferry was ordered and financing arranged before Mesa Airlines arranaged to launch Go Airlines.
I think the money may have been better spent on reducing the traffic jam during rushhour either the train idea or the ferry.
Also does anyone know if the Superferry was ordered and financing arranged before Mesa Airlines arranaged to launch Go Airlines.
Sep 12th, 2007 | 01:28 PM
#117
Guest
Posts: n/a
bobludlow,
I am completely offended by your latest post attacking Dusty. You are belittling for no purpose. And your continual reference to anyone who protests whether within or outside the law as his "friends" is completely off base and mean spirited.
I fear you are the one with issues on this thread. Whether or not we agree with all of Dusty's opinions, most on this board respect his point of view as educated and passionate with cause.
Mahalo for the updates Dusty and Auntie and bennieb and hawaiintraveler and mels et all.
I am completely offended by your latest post attacking Dusty. You are belittling for no purpose. And your continual reference to anyone who protests whether within or outside the law as his "friends" is completely off base and mean spirited.
I fear you are the one with issues on this thread. Whether or not we agree with all of Dusty's opinions, most on this board respect his point of view as educated and passionate with cause.
Mahalo for the updates Dusty and Auntie and bennieb and hawaiintraveler and mels et all.
Sep 12th, 2007 | 05:56 PM
#118
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 589
Likes: 0
There's passion and there's poison. Dusty's constant nasty accusations without any foundation stepped over the line. Governments are supposed to invest in public infrastructure. That's a big part of why they are there. The very fact that some politicians (along with lots of Americans both in Hawaii and on the mainland) see value in a speedy intra-island ferry is absolutely not justification for his constant snide accusations of bribery and corruption. And there is an obvious and direct connection between Dusty's exhortations for the ferry to sink and the aggressive/antisocial demonstrators that we all watched on television. He agrees with them. He supports their views. He's rooting for them. If he isn't a friend of them, what is he?
Sep 12th, 2007 | 06:11 PM
#119
Guest
Posts: n/a
pray tell dear bobludlow,
what island do you call home?
how long have you called it home?
what made you decide to live in hawaii?
do you watch the Honolulu evening news?
what makes you an authority on the superferry?
Look everyone!
I made a question treee!
what island do you call home?
how long have you called it home?
what made you decide to live in hawaii?
do you watch the Honolulu evening news?
what makes you an authority on the superferry?
Look everyone!
I made a question treee!
Sep 12th, 2007 | 06:26 PM
#120
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,025
Likes: 0
Bob
I deal with facts.
Everything I have said about the Superferry is fact.
They did get guaranteed federal loans.
The did get an EA exemption from the Lingle Administration.
The Lingle Administration did lie about the Superferry being singled out.
The Superferry did start up AFTER the Hawaii Supreme Court said it was wrong fro them to get an exemption.
The Lingle Administration has given several no bid contracts to political contributors.
Etc.
Etc.
What is so wrong about me stating facts about the Superferry?
What is so wrong about me trying to protect the whales?
All you have to do is read the articles that I provided links for to know what is going on with the Superferry.
The protesters on Kauai are not my friends. I do not know any of them. But I support their bravery for stopping the Superferry & bringing the EA issue to a head. Had they and others not stopped the Superferry, they would be operating right now with no regard for the environment. I am rooting for the protesters to stop the Superferry as the Superferry officials don't seem to give a damn about the environment.
There is nothing wrong with my opinion that the Superferry has politicians in their back pocket. How did they get the guaranteed federal loans? How did they get the Lingle Administration to spend $40 million? How did they get the Lingle Administration to give them an exemption for an environmental assessment? Why did the Lingle Administration lie about the Superferry being singled out?
If you don't agree with me that is fine.
But, you are wrong with your sorry comments about me.
Talk about the issues & give your opinion, but keep your sorry comments about me out of this.
I deal with facts.
Everything I have said about the Superferry is fact.
They did get guaranteed federal loans.
The did get an EA exemption from the Lingle Administration.
The Lingle Administration did lie about the Superferry being singled out.
The Superferry did start up AFTER the Hawaii Supreme Court said it was wrong fro them to get an exemption.
The Lingle Administration has given several no bid contracts to political contributors.
Etc.
Etc.
What is so wrong about me stating facts about the Superferry?
What is so wrong about me trying to protect the whales?
All you have to do is read the articles that I provided links for to know what is going on with the Superferry.
The protesters on Kauai are not my friends. I do not know any of them. But I support their bravery for stopping the Superferry & bringing the EA issue to a head. Had they and others not stopped the Superferry, they would be operating right now with no regard for the environment. I am rooting for the protesters to stop the Superferry as the Superferry officials don't seem to give a damn about the environment.
There is nothing wrong with my opinion that the Superferry has politicians in their back pocket. How did they get the guaranteed federal loans? How did they get the Lingle Administration to spend $40 million? How did they get the Lingle Administration to give them an exemption for an environmental assessment? Why did the Lingle Administration lie about the Superferry being singled out?
If you don't agree with me that is fine.
But, you are wrong with your sorry comments about me.
Talk about the issues & give your opinion, but keep your sorry comments about me out of this.
