Superferry
Aug 27th, 2007, 11:30 PM
#42
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Temporary restraining order halts Superferry on Maui
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...841357260.html
I'm proud of those who filed for the restraining order.
It is Superferry's own fault. They had years to provide an EIS & they & their politicians blocked attempts for an EIS for years.
I hope the entire ferry gets scrapped as they already sucked $$$ out of taxpayers.
I believe they only started up early as they did was to make a deadline so the guaranteed federal loans are still in place. Had they not made a startup deadline, they would have lost the guaranteed loans. That is my opinion based on things I've read about the Superferrry & the loans.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...841357260.html
I'm proud of those who filed for the restraining order.
It is Superferry's own fault. They had years to provide an EIS & they & their politicians blocked attempts for an EIS for years.
I hope the entire ferry gets scrapped as they already sucked $$$ out of taxpayers.
I believe they only started up early as they did was to make a deadline so the guaranteed federal loans are still in place. Had they not made a startup deadline, they would have lost the guaranteed loans. That is my opinion based on things I've read about the Superferrry & the loans.
Aug 28th, 2007, 09:32 AM
#44
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The protesters are a bunch of hypocrites for several reasons.
Where is their outcry that the huge Matson and Young Borthers ships don't have to do an EIS? Oh, that's right - Matson and Young Bros. shipments benefit THEM PERSONALLY, so of course they don't want to stop THOSE ships.
Concern for the whales? That's a convenient and politically correct excuse, but again, what about the threat from Matson and Young Bros.? Oh, that's right, Matson and Young Bros. benefit them personally, I keep forgetting that part.
All the documented whale injuries in Hawaii have been caused by smaller boat strikes, as indicated by propeller injuries on the whales, and the whale watching ships getting closer than federal law allows. THAT'S where the danger to whales lie, yet no demand to stop whale watching tours? Hypocrites.
Invasive species coming in? The Matson and Young Bros. ships (and big cruise ships) dock for DAYS. The threat of endangered species spreading from these ships is real - as evidenced by the spread of coqui frogs to Oahu and Kauai from the Big Island long before the ferry began.
Also, if a protester is not Native Hawaiian, then I don't want to hear from them. I'm a haole myself, and if I want to see an "invasive species" all I need do is look in the mirror. To them an "outsider" is someone who wants to visit Kauai this year, and an "environmentalist" like them is someone who built their house last year. Like I said, hypocrites.
Most people agree that the main people using the ferry will be Hawaii residents, not tourists (since reantal cars are not allowed on board). It is not the protesters' call to stop any other citizen in the State of Hawaii from visiting any other island.
If a protester is Native Hawaiian, then I'll take the protests seriously. But I also say, where is the spirit of Kamehameha the Great who believed the men, women, and children of Hawaii should be free to travel peacefully?
This post is pretty angry, I know. But I saw a news clip that showed some "pious" protesters (haole) letting air out of the tires of a local family's car, just because the family dared to visit another island by sea instead of flying. They (the protesters) lost any hope of support from me right there.
Where is their outcry that the huge Matson and Young Borthers ships don't have to do an EIS? Oh, that's right - Matson and Young Bros. shipments benefit THEM PERSONALLY, so of course they don't want to stop THOSE ships.
Concern for the whales? That's a convenient and politically correct excuse, but again, what about the threat from Matson and Young Bros.? Oh, that's right, Matson and Young Bros. benefit them personally, I keep forgetting that part.
All the documented whale injuries in Hawaii have been caused by smaller boat strikes, as indicated by propeller injuries on the whales, and the whale watching ships getting closer than federal law allows. THAT'S where the danger to whales lie, yet no demand to stop whale watching tours? Hypocrites.
Invasive species coming in? The Matson and Young Bros. ships (and big cruise ships) dock for DAYS. The threat of endangered species spreading from these ships is real - as evidenced by the spread of coqui frogs to Oahu and Kauai from the Big Island long before the ferry began.
Also, if a protester is not Native Hawaiian, then I don't want to hear from them. I'm a haole myself, and if I want to see an "invasive species" all I need do is look in the mirror. To them an "outsider" is someone who wants to visit Kauai this year, and an "environmentalist" like them is someone who built their house last year. Like I said, hypocrites.
Most people agree that the main people using the ferry will be Hawaii residents, not tourists (since reantal cars are not allowed on board). It is not the protesters' call to stop any other citizen in the State of Hawaii from visiting any other island.
If a protester is Native Hawaiian, then I'll take the protests seriously. But I also say, where is the spirit of Kamehameha the Great who believed the men, women, and children of Hawaii should be free to travel peacefully?
This post is pretty angry, I know. But I saw a news clip that showed some "pious" protesters (haole) letting air out of the tires of a local family's car, just because the family dared to visit another island by sea instead of flying. They (the protesters) lost any hope of support from me right there.
Aug 28th, 2007, 09:46 AM
#45
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I read the comments on the Advertiser's forum and also saw last night's newsclip showing someone letting tire out of a car tire.
To me it seems like there is an ugly undercurrent of localism/protecting their turf going on here. Many comments on the Advertiser forum talk about not wanting the residents of Oahu coming to Kauai and fishing their waters, surfing their breaks, etc.
I find the situation really sad.
To me it seems like there is an ugly undercurrent of localism/protecting their turf going on here. Many comments on the Advertiser forum talk about not wanting the residents of Oahu coming to Kauai and fishing their waters, surfing their breaks, etc.
I find the situation really sad.
Aug 28th, 2007, 09:55 AM
#46
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"Where is their outcry that the huge Matson and Young Borthers ships don't have to do an EIS? Oh, that's right - Matson and Young Bros. shipments benefit THEM PERSONALLY, so of course they don't want to stop THOSE ships."
What were the regulations when they started up decades ago? Did they meet the regulations that were in force then?
Did they fight for 2-3 years any regulations that were in force then?
Much more is known now about problems caused by any new venture & those problems should be dealt with before a new company starts up.
There are groups like Sierra Club that may not have been around or didn't have enough clout to make a difference 50 years ago.
Should any group just sit back & let a new company come in & do what they want without providing a required EIS? Just because they have the politicians in their pocket?
Superferry had years to provide an EIS and didn't. EIS is a requirement now. Thats the bottom line. Not something that may or
What were the regulations when they started up decades ago? Did they meet the regulations that were in force then?
Did they fight for 2-3 years any regulations that were in force then?
Much more is known now about problems caused by any new venture & those problems should be dealt with before a new company starts up.
There are groups like Sierra Club that may not have been around or didn't have enough clout to make a difference 50 years ago.
Should any group just sit back & let a new company come in & do what they want without providing a required EIS? Just because they have the politicians in their pocket?
Superferry had years to provide an EIS and didn't. EIS is a requirement now. Thats the bottom line. Not something that may or
Aug 28th, 2007, 10:20 AM
#48
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Again, this is how rumors start, from MIS INFORMATION.
An EIS is NOT required by this courts ruling. An environmental assessment is what is being called for. A HUGE difference. We will see Wednesday what the court rules. I won't speculate as to the outcome.
An EIS is NOT required by this courts ruling. An environmental assessment is what is being called for. A HUGE difference. We will see Wednesday what the court rules. I won't speculate as to the outcome.
Aug 28th, 2007, 11:39 AM
#49
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I admittedly don't know when Matson *originally* began service long ago, but I do know for a fact that they continually add new ships all the time, and one was added in July 2006. Environmental laws and the Sierra Clud were certainly in existence in July 2006.
Aug 28th, 2007, 11:46 AM
#50
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"Superferry had years to provide an EIS and didn't. EIS is a requirement now."
Hawaiiantraveler
By "EIS is a requirement now", I meant in this day & age.
I am well aware that it is an EA (environmental assessment) that is in question now, but only because there was no EIS as there should have been. It may & should lead to a required EIS.
The fact remains that if Superferry had not blocked all attempts to get it to adhere to regulations for the past several years, they would not be in this predicament.
Hawaiiantraveler
By "EIS is a requirement now", I meant in this day & age.
I am well aware that it is an EA (environmental assessment) that is in question now, but only because there was no EIS as there should have been. It may & should lead to a required EIS.
The fact remains that if Superferry had not blocked all attempts to get it to adhere to regulations for the past several years, they would not be in this predicament.
Aug 28th, 2007, 11:49 AM
#51
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I'm a haole myself, and if I want to see an "invasive species" all I need do is look in the mirror. LOL!! I really did laugh out loud, that was great.
Good point about Young Brothers, though--they blessed their latest barge, the Kaholo, on our pier a few months ago. The thing is HUGE and can fit hundreds of cars. This is different from their regular barges; it looks like a version of the SuperFerry, actually. The event went off without a hitch.
I was mostly appalled at the SuperFerry protesters who were letting the air out of people's tires. Innocent people who just happened to be customers! If that were me, I'd be terrified. That was really immature, true mob mentality.
Good point about Young Brothers, though--they blessed their latest barge, the Kaholo, on our pier a few months ago. The thing is HUGE and can fit hundreds of cars. This is different from their regular barges; it looks like a version of the SuperFerry, actually. The event went off without a hitch.
I was mostly appalled at the SuperFerry protesters who were letting the air out of people's tires. Innocent people who just happened to be customers! If that were me, I'd be terrified. That was really immature, true mob mentality.
Aug 28th, 2007, 12:34 PM
#52
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Mels,
I agree with you 100%, really no class or Aloha.
Dusty,
An EIS was never required of the Superferry, EVER.
As I previously stated embellishment of the facts are how rumors are started.
You don't need an EIS for transportation devices ie. boats , planes, or superferrys. Where did you ever get that idea? I won't get into the minutia of the situation but I'll quote from the article you previously posted which contains the facts.
"HRS Chapter 343 states that "an environmental assessment shall be required for actions that propose the use of state or county lands or the use of state or county funds." The assessment determines whether projects are likely to have a significant effect on the environment, and if the answer is yes, a more thorough environmental impact statement is required."
That is the purpose of this TRO not the ones you and your supporters keep implying.
I agree with you 100%, really no class or Aloha.
Dusty,
An EIS was never required of the Superferry, EVER.
As I previously stated embellishment of the facts are how rumors are started.
You don't need an EIS for transportation devices ie. boats , planes, or superferrys. Where did you ever get that idea? I won't get into the minutia of the situation but I'll quote from the article you previously posted which contains the facts.
"HRS Chapter 343 states that "an environmental assessment shall be required for actions that propose the use of state or county lands or the use of state or county funds." The assessment determines whether projects are likely to have a significant effect on the environment, and if the answer is yes, a more thorough environmental impact statement is required."
That is the purpose of this TRO not the ones you and your supporters keep implying.
Aug 28th, 2007, 01:06 PM
#53
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Besides letting the air out of tires, I saw people pounding on the windshields and bodies of the cars. There were also shots of people screaming "GO HOME" to the ferry passengers.
It was really shocking to see, especially since the protestors are local Hawaii state residents - treating other local Hawaii state residents in this manner.
It was really shocking to see, especially since the protestors are local Hawaii state residents - treating other local Hawaii state residents in this manner.
Aug 28th, 2007, 03:32 PM
#54
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I think that The SuperFerry will do well at first, then once they realize people don't want to spend that kind of money on travel, they'll lower their prices and pack the thing fuller than a Haitian refugee boat. Eventually it will fizzle out and move to Asia.
Everyone has good points. People love to get stirred up and join a band-wagon. The people who really care do it because they feel it needs to be done from their own research. Most of these people are fighting because they are afraid of eachother, and really just don't want to be singled out.
This will eventually go away, and people will forget about the bigger picture of regulating all the barges and cruise ships. If you want to contribute to an all-interisland ferry forum, there's: http://www.hawaiiinterislandsuperferry.com/forums/
Everyone has good points. People love to get stirred up and join a band-wagon. The people who really care do it because they feel it needs to be done from their own research. Most of these people are fighting because they are afraid of eachother, and really just don't want to be singled out.
This will eventually go away, and people will forget about the bigger picture of regulating all the barges and cruise ships. If you want to contribute to an all-interisland ferry forum, there's: http://www.hawaiiinterislandsuperferry.com/forums/
Aug 28th, 2007, 04:01 PM
#55
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Hawaiiantraveler
Superferry has stonewalled all attempts to have either an EIS or an EA for years.
Just because they and the politicians they have in their back pocket have stonewalled, does not mean that there was none required.
Superferry has stonewalled all attempts to have either an EIS or an EA for years.
Just because they and the politicians they have in their back pocket have stonewalled, does not mean that there was none required.
Aug 28th, 2007, 06:59 PM
#57
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Just read the latest news that the SF has cancelled all trips to Kauai for now. And also those who are proudly proclaiming their "victory."
Any wonder why it's turning into an island of the rich and poor. The middle class is being squeezed out. Economic expansion? Not here.
"I'm rich and have retired here. I'm living off my huge bank account and don't need you. Stay away."
or...
"I was lucky enough that my parents come from here, so I'm living in their house now, am happy with my welfare checks and don't need you. Stay away."
Pitiful.
PS. I know not all Kauai residents fit this profile of course, but I'll bet the majority of those in the water do.
Sorry, but what they are doing really ticks me off.
Any wonder why it's turning into an island of the rich and poor. The middle class is being squeezed out. Economic expansion? Not here.
"I'm rich and have retired here. I'm living off my huge bank account and don't need you. Stay away."
or...
"I was lucky enough that my parents come from here, so I'm living in their house now, am happy with my welfare checks and don't need you. Stay away."
Pitiful.
PS. I know not all Kauai residents fit this profile of course, but I'll bet the majority of those in the water do.
Sorry, but what they are doing really ticks me off.
Aug 28th, 2007, 07:32 PM
#58
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Hawaiiantraveler
Lingle tried to give the Superferry an exemption of any EIS or EA.
Courts have been ongoing for years in the battle for an EIS or an EA.
Just because Lingle tried to give them an exemption does not mean one was not required of them.
Speaking about criminals, what about the Superferry operating after the Hawaii Supreme Court said the state was wrong in exempting the environmental requirements.
The Superferry went ahead with their operation after the ruling and then had to be stopped with a temporary injunction.
There's your criminals!!!
All they had to do was an EIS (or an EA) two years ago.
Blame the Superferry.
Blame Lingle.
Don't blame the protesters. They are trying to get the Superferry to do what is right & that is to address environmental concerns.
Do I agree with some of the petty violence like pounding on cars or letting air out of tires? No. But, its a lot less severe than allowing the Superferry to operate without any regard to the environment simply because they had politicians in their back pocket.
Lingle tried to give the Superferry an exemption of any EIS or EA.
Courts have been ongoing for years in the battle for an EIS or an EA.
Just because Lingle tried to give them an exemption does not mean one was not required of them.
Speaking about criminals, what about the Superferry operating after the Hawaii Supreme Court said the state was wrong in exempting the environmental requirements.
The Superferry went ahead with their operation after the ruling and then had to be stopped with a temporary injunction.
There's your criminals!!!
All they had to do was an EIS (or an EA) two years ago.
Blame the Superferry.
Blame Lingle.
Don't blame the protesters. They are trying to get the Superferry to do what is right & that is to address environmental concerns.
Do I agree with some of the petty violence like pounding on cars or letting air out of tires? No. But, its a lot less severe than allowing the Superferry to operate without any regard to the environment simply because they had politicians in their back pocket.
Aug 29th, 2007, 03:51 AM
#59
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