Stuck Need Help on CA, NV, UT and AZ trip in August
Feb 25th, 2004, 12:45 PM
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Stuck Need Help on CA, NV, UT and AZ trip in August
My sister-in-law and her family are coming here to Los Angeles from France to visit my husband and I the last week of July and early August for 18 days.
They want to do a big "circle" driving trip and they will have their 4 children with them (between 10 and 16 in age). So they will be renting a minivan. My husband and I will go part of the way with them in our car. We will drive as far as Zion Bryce and then come back to LA while they drive on to Grand Canyon and beyond.
I would like to have some input on the itinerary. I think based on hearing all the areas that they want to see, the distances are long, so would welcome some thoughts from you all.
And, as you will see-I am stuck on the Las Vegas to SF portion.
Here's what it looks like so far:
They arrive in LA on the 28th July
Spend 3 nights in LA to catch up on jet lag and do general sightseeing (luckily they have seen all the parks-so we don't have to do that!)
Leave on Sunday the 1st and drive to Las Vegas (284 miles, 4 1/2 hours) spend 3 nights there (since we arrive late I figure we will want that time)
Leave for Zion on Weds the 3rd (246 miles 4hrs 45min) spend 2 nights there We will base there and then see a bit of Bryce the day they go on to Lake Powell
Leave for Bryce/Lake Powell around 150 miles
1 night
Leave for Grand Canyon (152 miles 3 hours 25 min) spend fri and sat there
Leave Grand Canyon on Sunday the 9th and drive to Las Vegas again (275 miles 5 hours, 25 min) Spend the night (just as a stopping point this time)
Then they want to go to SF area-I think it would be crazy to go through Death Vally in August with 4 kids........but I know the French like to see it-which would mean they would go through Death valley to the sequoia area and then into SF. The fastest route from Las Vegas to SF, looks like through Barstow-but that is a pretty ugly trip and over 360 miles-around 7hours of driving if you go Las Vegas to SF with no stops. So I am looking for suggestions on that stretch on where to break-maybe see part of the sequoias area?
If they spend the night somewhere in between Vegas and SF, that gives them 5 nights to spend between SF and Los Angeles-so I was thinking 2 nights in SF, 1 in Carmel area, 1 in Santa Barbara area.
Any feedback thoughts would be greatly appareciated!
thanks for the help
jpie
They want to do a big "circle" driving trip and they will have their 4 children with them (between 10 and 16 in age). So they will be renting a minivan. My husband and I will go part of the way with them in our car. We will drive as far as Zion Bryce and then come back to LA while they drive on to Grand Canyon and beyond.
I would like to have some input on the itinerary. I think based on hearing all the areas that they want to see, the distances are long, so would welcome some thoughts from you all.
And, as you will see-I am stuck on the Las Vegas to SF portion.
Here's what it looks like so far:
They arrive in LA on the 28th July
Spend 3 nights in LA to catch up on jet lag and do general sightseeing (luckily they have seen all the parks-so we don't have to do that!)
Leave on Sunday the 1st and drive to Las Vegas (284 miles, 4 1/2 hours) spend 3 nights there (since we arrive late I figure we will want that time)
Leave for Zion on Weds the 3rd (246 miles 4hrs 45min) spend 2 nights there We will base there and then see a bit of Bryce the day they go on to Lake Powell
Leave for Bryce/Lake Powell around 150 miles
1 night
Leave for Grand Canyon (152 miles 3 hours 25 min) spend fri and sat there
Leave Grand Canyon on Sunday the 9th and drive to Las Vegas again (275 miles 5 hours, 25 min) Spend the night (just as a stopping point this time)
Then they want to go to SF area-I think it would be crazy to go through Death Vally in August with 4 kids........but I know the French like to see it-which would mean they would go through Death valley to the sequoia area and then into SF. The fastest route from Las Vegas to SF, looks like through Barstow-but that is a pretty ugly trip and over 360 miles-around 7hours of driving if you go Las Vegas to SF with no stops. So I am looking for suggestions on that stretch on where to break-maybe see part of the sequoias area?
If they spend the night somewhere in between Vegas and SF, that gives them 5 nights to spend between SF and Los Angeles-so I was thinking 2 nights in SF, 1 in Carmel area, 1 in Santa Barbara area.
Any feedback thoughts would be greatly appareciated!
thanks for the help
jpie
Feb 25th, 2004, 01:27 PM
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Unless they are using dirt roads through the back country, Zion-Bryce-Page is more like 235 miles than the 150 you show.
A more scenic route from LV to SF would be north on US-95 to US-6; West to US-395; north to Cal-120; west through Yosemite; then on into SF.
Are they really prepared for all this driving? Being from France, they may have no conception of the huge distances involved in this trip. Much of it will be on good secondary roads but slow traffic or accidents can cause average speeds to be less than they may expect.
I would suggest to them they use good highway maps, lay out all the driving they are going to do, then convert the mileage to kilometers so they have a true perspective on what's in store for them
It's a doable trip but will involve a great deal of driving.
A more scenic route from LV to SF would be north on US-95 to US-6; West to US-395; north to Cal-120; west through Yosemite; then on into SF.
Are they really prepared for all this driving? Being from France, they may have no conception of the huge distances involved in this trip. Much of it will be on good secondary roads but slow traffic or accidents can cause average speeds to be less than they may expect.
I would suggest to them they use good highway maps, lay out all the driving they are going to do, then convert the mileage to kilometers so they have a true perspective on what's in store for them
It's a doable trip but will involve a great deal of driving.
Feb 25th, 2004, 01:41 PM
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For some reason, Europeans like to go to Death Valley in the summer. They would have to have reservations at Furnace Creek Ranch if they plan to stay for a night!
Or, if they just want to do a drive through, then they can exit at Lone Pine, and head north on 395 to Tioga Pass through Yosemite. Then on to SF.
Went past the sign on 395 yesterday, and it's 106 miles from Lone Pine to Death Valley - however, I don't know if that's the entrance or Furnace Creek.
Lone Pine has motels and is very warm. Bishop is 50 minutes north from Lone Pine, and is warm. Another 40 minutes, they could stay at Mammoth Lakes where it would be cooler, and enjoy pine trees versus sagebrush. Tioga Pass is 35 minutes north of Mammoth.
Lee Vining hotels are scarce, and may probably be booked. (LakeView is the best of them)
On some maps, there appears to be a road going from Pearsonville on Hwy 395 through the Sequoias. There are campgrounds 25 miles down that unpaved road, and by no means can you drive through Sequoia from there. Even by mule, you could not make it over the crest.
So their choice is south around from Bakersfield, or Tioga Pass to SF. Sounds like a great trip whatever direction they take.
Or, if they just want to do a drive through, then they can exit at Lone Pine, and head north on 395 to Tioga Pass through Yosemite. Then on to SF.
Went past the sign on 395 yesterday, and it's 106 miles from Lone Pine to Death Valley - however, I don't know if that's the entrance or Furnace Creek.
Lone Pine has motels and is very warm. Bishop is 50 minutes north from Lone Pine, and is warm. Another 40 minutes, they could stay at Mammoth Lakes where it would be cooler, and enjoy pine trees versus sagebrush. Tioga Pass is 35 minutes north of Mammoth.
Lee Vining hotels are scarce, and may probably be booked. (LakeView is the best of them)
On some maps, there appears to be a road going from Pearsonville on Hwy 395 through the Sequoias. There are campgrounds 25 miles down that unpaved road, and by no means can you drive through Sequoia from there. Even by mule, you could not make it over the crest.
So their choice is south around from Bakersfield, or Tioga Pass to SF. Sounds like a great trip whatever direction they take.
Feb 25th, 2004, 01:47 PM
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Not sure where you got your mileages from.
Las Vegas to Zion National Park 160 miles about 3 hours driving time.
Zion to Bryce is 86 miles about 2 hours driving time.
Bryce to Lake Powell is 155 miles on paved roads driving time 3 1/2 hours.
This makes the trip from Zion to Bryce and on to Lake Powell a total of 240 miles and 5 1/2 hours of driving.
Some map routing services will tell you to go on Cottonwood Canyon between Bryce and Lake Powell, BEWARE this is a slow driving dirt road. Please do not take it if a thunderstorm is approaching.
Lake Powell to S. Rim,Grand Canyon Village is 140 miles and about 3 hours driving time but plan on more time to make stops at the overlooks of the Grand Canyon as you drive from Desert View to the Visitor Center.
If you don't think you can talk them out of Death Valley, then how about adding Yosemite instead of Sequioa. Have them leave Death Valley and drive up Hwy 395 to Tigoa Pass. They could spend the night at either Bishop, Mammoth Lakes or Lee Vining before entering Yosemite. Spend most of the day in Yosemite Valley, before heading to SF. IMHO, I would cut out one of those 2 nights in Vegas and spend it in Yosemite.
Las Vegas - thought Death Valley and on to Lee Vining is 370 miles but plan on it taking all of the day.
Lee Vining to Yosemite Village and then to SF is 265 miles and 6 1/2 hours. Doesn't give them much time for siteseeing in Yosemite, but the driving is cooler and more scenic than Hwy 5!
If they want to see some BIG trees they can go to Big Basin State Park on the coast just above Santa Cruz or there is a grove in Yosemite too, but that would be a lot of driving if they only had the day there.
My favorite drive on the coast is from Half-Moon bay down to Santa Cruz.
Utahtea
Las Vegas to Zion National Park 160 miles about 3 hours driving time.
Zion to Bryce is 86 miles about 2 hours driving time.
Bryce to Lake Powell is 155 miles on paved roads driving time 3 1/2 hours.
This makes the trip from Zion to Bryce and on to Lake Powell a total of 240 miles and 5 1/2 hours of driving.
Some map routing services will tell you to go on Cottonwood Canyon between Bryce and Lake Powell, BEWARE this is a slow driving dirt road. Please do not take it if a thunderstorm is approaching.
Lake Powell to S. Rim,Grand Canyon Village is 140 miles and about 3 hours driving time but plan on more time to make stops at the overlooks of the Grand Canyon as you drive from Desert View to the Visitor Center.
If you don't think you can talk them out of Death Valley, then how about adding Yosemite instead of Sequioa. Have them leave Death Valley and drive up Hwy 395 to Tigoa Pass. They could spend the night at either Bishop, Mammoth Lakes or Lee Vining before entering Yosemite. Spend most of the day in Yosemite Valley, before heading to SF. IMHO, I would cut out one of those 2 nights in Vegas and spend it in Yosemite.
Las Vegas - thought Death Valley and on to Lee Vining is 370 miles but plan on it taking all of the day.
Lee Vining to Yosemite Village and then to SF is 265 miles and 6 1/2 hours. Doesn't give them much time for siteseeing in Yosemite, but the driving is cooler and more scenic than Hwy 5!
If they want to see some BIG trees they can go to Big Basin State Park on the coast just above Santa Cruz or there is a grove in Yosemite too, but that would be a lot of driving if they only had the day there.
My favorite drive on the coast is from Half-Moon bay down to Santa Cruz.
Utahtea
Feb 25th, 2004, 01:52 PM
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All of this itinerary is doable - but not advisable IMHO. Being stuck six in a vehicle for days and days of driving in over 105F to 110F heat sounds like pure hell.
I would concentrate on either California w/ maybe a side trip to Las Vegas -- OR -- SoCal, Las Vegas and the Arizona/Utah parks.
At that time of year doing California -- Yosemite, Sequoia and the coast would be a LOT cooler.
I would concentrate on either California w/ maybe a side trip to Las Vegas -- OR -- SoCal, Las Vegas and the Arizona/Utah parks.
At that time of year doing California -- Yosemite, Sequoia and the coast would be a LOT cooler.
Feb 25th, 2004, 02:06 PM
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Thanks all the useful tips! I am worried about my mileage source-I was using randmcnally.com and it sounds like their mileage estimates are pretty suspect. I used to use mapquest but since they don't have a trip planning feature anymore-I thought I would try rand mcnally.....do you all have trip planning sites you like now or are you just doing "point to point" distances?
I also agree it seems like a lot of driving to me-especially with 4 kids
I know they are "long distance drivers" in France regularly driving from Paris to the Alps in the winter around 400 KM in a day which seems about the average per day on this trip as well. But I keep trying to come up with ways to shorten it-fly into Las Vegas or in and out of Las Vegas to SF for example but that gets pricey for 6 people as does dropping off cars in other cities than where you pick it up. I might still try to talk them in skipping the SF area and focus instead on just the Vegas Grand canyon piece, but we will see. Meanwhile, thanks for all the help!
jpie
I also agree it seems like a lot of driving to me-especially with 4 kids
I know they are "long distance drivers" in France regularly driving from Paris to the Alps in the winter around 400 KM in a day which seems about the average per day on this trip as well. But I keep trying to come up with ways to shorten it-fly into Las Vegas or in and out of Las Vegas to SF for example but that gets pricey for 6 people as does dropping off cars in other cities than where you pick it up. I might still try to talk them in skipping the SF area and focus instead on just the Vegas Grand canyon piece, but we will see. Meanwhile, thanks for all the help!jpie
Feb 25th, 2004, 03:31 PM
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I use Micrsoft Streets and Trips program that I bought for about $13 (after rebates) at Costco. I love it. You can plot in your stops, change the start and stop times, decide on how long you want to travel each day and even adjust the speed limits for different roads. In our motorhome we average about 60 MPH, but when I plug in for our car I can put 70 or 75 MPH. It makes a difference in travel times.
If you can talk them out of the SF area then they would have a lot more time for exploring and doing fun things...like a float trip on the Colorado River & Antelope Slots Canyon out of Page, AZ
They could get some hiking in instead of spending hours in the van. They might even want to expore a little more of Utah or AZ...like Scenic Hwy 12, Capitol Reef National Park, Canyon de Chelly National Monument or Monument Valley. Even Death Valley wouldn't be that much of a stretch...if they keep insisting
Utahtea
If you can talk them out of the SF area then they would have a lot more time for exploring and doing fun things...like a float trip on the Colorado River & Antelope Slots Canyon out of Page, AZ
They could get some hiking in instead of spending hours in the van. They might even want to expore a little more of Utah or AZ...like Scenic Hwy 12, Capitol Reef National Park, Canyon de Chelly National Monument or Monument Valley. Even Death Valley wouldn't be that much of a stretch...if they keep insisting
Utahtea
Feb 27th, 2004, 10:37 AM
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I just relooked how far they drive in France-it seems to be around 670KM into the Alps in the winter-so 6 hours per day-so I figure that if they keep it to around 350 miles/day max for a "long day" here they may be able to stand it-however, I do thing the Las Vegas to SF is really too tough for a day, so I still think I will try to convince them to either skip SF-which I suspect they won't do or fly from LV.........or break that trip into at least 2 days...
thanks for all the feedback and help-I will keep working it
jpie
thanks for all the feedback and help-I will keep working it
jpie
Feb 27th, 2004, 01:35 PM
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While of course, a mile is a mile, but some of the routes you are contemplating are fast interstates and some are on roads such that you can not cover as many miles in a day - so don't figure you can just check of 350 miles/day. I have found times on some mapping programs to be a little long (we drive too fast, I guess) - but they are not usually way off. I would compare estimated driving times rather than mileage.
Feb 27th, 2004, 04:20 PM
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Gail-very good point.....I am sending my relatives a trip calendar with both the distances and the times-because I definitely agree that all roads aren't created equal-especially here in California once you get off the freeway. Also, I am going to try to warn them about how critical it is to plan the days and times you drive here since the traffic patterns can be so horrific.....but nobody ever seems to believe it until they have lived it themselves.
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