So the object is to stay off Mission itself...take one of the parallel streets from 18th to 16th and BART.

Yep - take Valencia.

Stu Dudley

Thanks all....appreciate your input. Don't want to start a long vacation off on the wrong foot on the 1st night.

BTW, Mark Zuckergerg's newly-purchased 10M Pied a Terre (with a couple more Ms for modifications) is reportedly on Fair Oaks near 21st St. Fair Oaks is a half-block between Dolores & Guerrero.

Stu Dudley

Zuckerberg.

Stu, good thing you are going to Padrecito tonight, 'cos tomorrow the neighborhood will be under a Halloween siege!!!!

I remember our first Halloween in the Noe Valley. Another siege - we ran out of candy by 7pm. Next year I was dressed as Granny Goose (my wife worked there) & sitting on our front porch quacking & flapping. Kids loved it (grown-ups too).

Stu Dudley

I love salted caramel, but Bi-Rite's is not my favorite (heresy).

Stu, we have a friend who lives on San Carlos, between MIssion and Valencia and17th. She was grabbed at the 16th St BART station OT too long ago, around 9 on a Saturday night. It hasn't changed that much. (As an aside, before we bought our house in Noe Valley in 1978, we found a fantastic house on 22nd at Valencia - couldn't afford the repairs it needed, so we passed. It took 30 years for that neighborhood to "get better"!).

Two are less likely to be assaulted than one, and the OP used the pronoun "we" which I assume had not royal connotations.

correction: no royal connotations.

For someone who is not familiar with the Mission it might be better to take a cab. It shouldn't cost that much.

There usually are homeless people and panhandlers. It can be an unsavory bunch.

Itoo dislike the area around the BART exit at Mission, even when I am with my husband. We will not "not" go, but you do need to keep your street smarts about you. This past trip we had a couple of "too close" encounters with panhandlers.

The BART exit at Civic Center is much worse than any Mission St exit, IMO. Powell ain't so great either. That leaves only Montgomery & Embarcadero as exits tourists might use in The City.

Stu Dudley

Stu, let's face it most public transportation in the City at night is not that fabulous (with a few exceptions). It's seedy, but not necessarily dangerous. Unlike NYC many SF residents do not take public transportation except during commute hours. If you see a couple of middle aged, well heeled people on MUNI or BART at night, chances are they are tourists or at the very least not residents of SF.

SAB, that's a rather broad brush! I would agree that BART is more of a commuter line, but the MUNI lines I frequent are full of San Franciscans (some more interesting than others). I have a car (that I park on the street near my apartment) but would much rather take public transportation. And I always take BART to and from the airport, even later at night. I've never had a problem at the 16th Street station, but it pays to be alert, always.

For the benefit of non-residents (and because we're driving to LA on I-5 and I have nothing better to do) I thought I'd mention that we've been living 3 blocks from the Civic Center BART station for the last month and taking Muni to work daily. It can be a pretty nasty walk - not at all unsafe, just not pleasant dodging the many street people both on the street and in the station. The entrance at the southeast corner is far better than the entrance at the southwest corner.